Was THIS a seizure?

by **Dianne** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 2:08 pm

Last night our Carolina dingo came into the house from the backyard and displayed the following symptoms:

He began falling; kept trying to stand.
Eyes were dilated.
Excessive, clear, almost thick salavation dripped from his mouth.
Jaws were clenched shut.
Back hunched briefly then looked normal.
Did not stiffen with legs out, but fell with splayed legs.
Lasted about 2 minutes.
Did not respond to his name.
Gums were NOT pale. Tongue was not changed in color.

EDIT TO ADD: Rapid breathing, Rapid heartbeat

I thought he was going to die, but within a few minutes wagged his tail when I talked to him.

We called the emergency vet to prepare for our arrival, but when he rallied we didn't go. Cancelled the vet visit.

Any thoughts about possible seizure? He had not been out walking/running with K but had barked more at passing dogs during the day.

by **critters** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 2:20 pm

I'd say there's a pretty good chance it was.

They probably won't do anything for just one, but med trials may be an option if they continue.

by **GabrielDeafBlindPupFamily** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:24 pm

Sounds like it to me, too, Dianne.

It may be a once in a lifetime event, or there may be some misfiring going on.

Not a chance he got into something outside he should not have? The alright after a few minutes I suppose would preclude that.

Sheesh. It is so frightening, isn't it? I woke up to the sound of Allicks' nails flailing on the hard floor as she lay on her side, stiff and flailing and completely unresponsive. Had she been on carpet, I would never have known.

by **CarolC** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:35 pm

Ohhh.......you haven't planted any new plants or put down any new mulch have you? I don't know what to say.

by **Dianne** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:40 am

Thank you all for your kind reassurance. I'm convinced it was a small seizure. Have seen plenty of adult seizures of the grand mal kind but never witnessed a pet seizure.

No new plants, no mulch. I'm careful about the plants in the yard. D

by **CarolC** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:04 pm

I can't believe this was a year ago. How has he been doing?

by **Dianne** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 3:41 am

He had a second seizure about June '09. Daughter took him for a run on a hot evening. He's got a heavy undercoat and shouldn't be out running, or walking, when the temps are over 80F. He came home, didn't cool down in the little blue wading pool and subsequently appeared to have a heat seizure after bedtime. It didn't last long. Since then we haven't let him out on very warm days, and if he IS out, he cools down in his wading pool.

Thanks for asking.

by **Dianne** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 5:27 pm

Ok, two seizures within the last week. Today's seizure lasted almost a full 5 minutes. I grabbed my shoes, and purse and was ready to load him into the car for a trip to the emergency vet when he began wagging his tail. Time for a vet checkup and maybe meds.......

by **Bobbie** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 5:54 pm

Good luck. Ask for rectal valium that you can give in an emergency. I have syringes filled ready to go if the seizure lasts longer than a minute or two. Jack had one long, scary one and Merlin one longer than I like.

by **Dianne** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:24 am

Thanks Bobbie.

Has anyone tried applying a bag of ice to the lower midsection during a seizure?

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-ang ... ycare.html

by **Bobbie** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:35 am

I never tried that- most of ours have lasted about sixty seconds and when the ones didn't, I had rectal valium so I used it. But as usually the dog urinates you'd be icing down a wet abdomen... not so sure I'd want to try that, and with Jack he's still kicking (Merlin no longer kicks his lower legs due to DM.)

by **Dianne** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:50 am

Back from the vet.

Now have Valium suppositories, and phenobarb BID. Vet drew blood for a blood panel to see if there are any hypo or hypers. $212.00 Return in 3 weeks for blood work and followup.

Looks like this is a merry-go-round. Anyone have any suggestions how to handle this better?

by **GabrielDeafBlindPupFamily** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:12 pm

Dianne, is there truly a way to Dx seizure, unless you see it or the post ictal? Of course seeing either is believing.

My friend Dede's Jemmers was seizing so often, sooo hideously often. She is now on a very restricted diet and hasn't seized since june or July. The diet made all the difference. Jem's been on PB for several years now and while they do help, she can have many many in a week, even a day. Not since June or July. Dede took out all artificials and the like. I'll ask her what Jem's diet is now. I saw Jem on Saturday at our event and she was TRULY at the top of her form, for a lethal white, which is of course 120% for the 'normal' pup!

I'll always keep icecream in my freezer, just in case.

by **Dianne** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:16 pm

Thank you Karen. I'm willing to try the diet. He is currently eating Iams, low fat.

by **Bobbie** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:23 pm

Well, first, try adding Vitamin E. I'm not convinced it works but both dogs have had seizures when we ran out for a few days (one each time, though, not both both times.)

Phenobarbital: they will want you to test blood levels. That really isn't necessary- you want to test liver panel periodically to make sure it is not killing his liver, but if it is working there is sufficient in the bloodstream. The test to see how much is there is expensive and redundant. Maybe do it once but you shouldn't have to keep repeating it unless you can't get him stabilized.

Also, once he is stable, the timing on the phenobarbital isn't critical. It has a LONG halflife so takes a few days to build to peak level but then it isn't going to drop if you go longer than 12 hrs or even give it once a day. (People will tell you otherwise but it isn't so.)

(Remember I am not a vet, though, so feel free to ignore what I say or ask your vet if it is true!)

If phenobarbital alone doesn't work they may want to add KBr. I hate Pb, it makes Merlin drink like a tank and pee like a horse, and didn't want to add KBr which does the same thing, so I did some research and ended up adding Zonisamide instead. It worked for Merlin and didn't increase the side effects but is more expensive. Most human drugs don't work in epilepsy because they are metabolized too quickly in dogs but Zonisamide (Zonegran) does. I think Keppra also works in dogs.

Start keeping a log of seizures and try to see if you can identify triggers. I never could except maybe stress in Merlin but for Jack, Merlin's seizure was a trigger (probably stress again.) But sometimes a trigger will be obvious and you can eliminate it. In humans stress is an extremely important trigger.

If he sleeps with you and tends to seize at night, put a waterproof sheet on the bed. If he sleeps alone, put something water proof on his bed so you can do quick washes. (Assuming he urinates during a seizure.)

It gets easier mainly because as you probably already know, you get used to seizures. And the drugs most often do work to stop them or at least minimize them.