Thank you for all your encouragement, It is very sad to see my big boy(Apollo) like this. He still has no feeling in his tail, when he poops he is walking and when he pee's he is walking and will not stand in one place?( loss of bladder control) is this normal? We are going on month 2. Any kind of advise is greatly
appreciated. The vet seems to think he is at 70% and will probably stay at 70% I value his opinion and can't stand to see Apollo out in the garage when he wants to be in with the family. I am thinking quality of life and right now he has none. He has stopped drinking water from his bowl and will only drink if I give it to him from a bottle and force him to drink. I walk him in short spurts to give him exercise and to build up muscle in his hind legs.
FCE
Re: FCE
I do not have any experience with FCE, but my healthy golden retriever often walks while passing stools and I never thought twice about it. As for your dog not drinking water, is his bowl on the floor? You might try getting one of those stands that raise the bowl so the dog doesn't have to stoop over to drink. They have them at PetsMart, and they are especially good for big dogs. As for being indoors, would doggie diapers or male wraps make this possible? Also, if you feed a low residue food such as Science Diet, it produces inoffensive, non-smelly, well-formed stools that will not mess up your dog's coat if passed in a diaper, or your carpet if he does not have a diaper. If you look at it from his perspective, perhaps it does not bother him that he walks while eliminating, and if it does not bother him, then he's happy. On the other hand, it probably does bother him that he's in the garage, so whatever you try that will let him rejoin his social circle will be a great kindness.
absolutely agree.
Most people report improvement for a LONG time; as I recall, jdf said Roxy improved over a couple of years after her FCE.
Carol's also right about the diapers, wraps, SleePee beds, and other helps that are available. And, yes, Old Charlie was a walking pooper, too! This isn't uncommon.
The raised bowl is a GREAT idea. I also caution about the possibility of not drinking on his own may be an attention-seeking behavior (he gets you to help him). Have you considered putting beef broth or the like into his water (obviously this isn't directed at you, Carol. It just falls in the reply to your post.*grin*)? Not only is the water more tasty, but the salt should make him want more. You might have to syringe or otherwise force the first bit, but my experience is that they take off after that.
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Carol's also right about the diapers, wraps, SleePee beds, and other helps that are available. And, yes, Old Charlie was a walking pooper, too! This isn't uncommon.
The raised bowl is a GREAT idea. I also caution about the possibility of not drinking on his own may be an attention-seeking behavior (he gets you to help him). Have you considered putting beef broth or the like into his water (obviously this isn't directed at you, Carol. It just falls in the reply to your post.*grin*)? Not only is the water more tasty, but the salt should make him want more. You might have to syringe or otherwise force the first bit, but my experience is that they take off after that.
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Mar
Re: FCE
critters,
Thanks for the reply: He has a bowl that is raised and I feed him science diet and the part about eliminating, I guess what bothers me is that he does it on him self and he get gnats and I have to bathe him (which is fine and no problem)but when the weather starts to turn and you have 170 pounds of animal to wash plus I have more animals, I have lab that is deaf in both ears and have a dachsund that was hit by a car and is still here to share his love and devotion. I have a rescued guinea pig and two stray cats from a farm road. I have more respect for animals than I do humans I CALL IT UN CONDITIONAL LOVE. ( where do I find big enough diapaers for him.
Thanks for the reply: He has a bowl that is raised and I feed him science diet and the part about eliminating, I guess what bothers me is that he does it on him self and he get gnats and I have to bathe him (which is fine and no problem)but when the weather starts to turn and you have 170 pounds of animal to wash plus I have more animals, I have lab that is deaf in both ears and have a dachsund that was hit by a car and is still here to share his love and devotion. I have a rescued guinea pig and two stray cats from a farm road. I have more respect for animals than I do humans I CALL IT UN CONDITIONAL LOVE. ( where do I find big enough diapaers for him.
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joel
Re: FCE
You have quite a collection of animals you are caring for, congratulations on your caring so much. Chase was stricken with FCE exactly 2 months ago. For the first two weeks he would only eat if we spoon fed him, After 1 month he could only stand for a minute or two and walk a few steps without crashing to the ground.
His improvements occurred weekly not daily. But we found the more we tried to alter his old life the worse he did. He was scraping and getting cut on his back paws so we tried all sorts of boots and socks and he didnt seem to improve much. We finally decided to go without any feet protection and lo and behold his stumbles and walking got better. We try to walk him in the snow so if he scrapes he doesnt get all cut up.
Last week for the first time he started to walk on his own. He is so much happier trying to do the things he used to, he doesnt always succeed but His spirits are high and he trys so hard now.
As others have said if you can get him back into the house without to much damage it should really help.
If he continues to improve even in little ways, a week at a time, it is a good sign.
We thought of our 3 year old as a puppy again it might help you i.e. Take him out after eating each meal, look for new signs to indicate he has to go out, (Chase used to walk to the door, now he barks at us for no reason). If you have a sling walk him in it, letting him put as much weight on the ground as possible, try to find a way to have his tail held up by the sling, (maybe a velcro wrap). For chase he always would squat on his hind legs to poop, now that he doesnt have the leg strength yet, just being able to lean back in the sling when he has to poop gives him the old feeling of squatting and pooping.
Hope that helps a little, good luck. Joel and Chase.
His improvements occurred weekly not daily. But we found the more we tried to alter his old life the worse he did. He was scraping and getting cut on his back paws so we tried all sorts of boots and socks and he didnt seem to improve much. We finally decided to go without any feet protection and lo and behold his stumbles and walking got better. We try to walk him in the snow so if he scrapes he doesnt get all cut up.
Last week for the first time he started to walk on his own. He is so much happier trying to do the things he used to, he doesnt always succeed but His spirits are high and he trys so hard now.
As others have said if you can get him back into the house without to much damage it should really help.
If he continues to improve even in little ways, a week at a time, it is a good sign.
We thought of our 3 year old as a puppy again it might help you i.e. Take him out after eating each meal, look for new signs to indicate he has to go out, (Chase used to walk to the door, now he barks at us for no reason). If you have a sling walk him in it, letting him put as much weight on the ground as possible, try to find a way to have his tail held up by the sling, (maybe a velcro wrap). For chase he always would squat on his hind legs to poop, now that he doesnt have the leg strength yet, just being able to lean back in the sling when he has to poop gives him the old feeling of squatting and pooping.
Hope that helps a little, good luck. Joel and Chase.
Wow!!
What a menagerie!
For a pupper that big, you'd probably have to use adult diapers. For me, the hardest part was finding the right size, and I found (with baby diapers) that I had to use a smaller size than with a 2-legger of the same weight. Keeping them from sliding off his butt was interesting, and I used a Onesie outfit. For your big boy, maybe a girl's bodysuit with a snap crotch would work. I got most of this kind of stuff for nearly nothing at yard sales and hand-me-down, if that's an option for you. Down in the Pupper with a rash thread Alisa G posted about a skin barrier spray by 3M that helps keep pee away from the skin, and the original poster posted a phone number to reach 3M.
With all your other responsibilities, I can certainly understand your wanting him better YESTERDAY, but you can all but guarantee he'll get better with time. The problem is the how long that'll be is anybody's guess.
Do you have access to a pool, hot tub, pond, or other calm body of water for him? Many people have tried hydrotherapy and swear by it.
For a pupper that big, you'd probably have to use adult diapers. For me, the hardest part was finding the right size, and I found (with baby diapers) that I had to use a smaller size than with a 2-legger of the same weight. Keeping them from sliding off his butt was interesting, and I used a Onesie outfit. For your big boy, maybe a girl's bodysuit with a snap crotch would work. I got most of this kind of stuff for nearly nothing at yard sales and hand-me-down, if that's an option for you. Down in the Pupper with a rash thread Alisa G posted about a skin barrier spray by 3M that helps keep pee away from the skin, and the original poster posted a phone number to reach 3M.
With all your other responsibilities, I can certainly understand your wanting him better YESTERDAY, but you can all but guarantee he'll get better with time. The problem is the how long that'll be is anybody's guess.
Do you have access to a pool, hot tub, pond, or other calm body of water for him? Many people have tried hydrotherapy and swear by it.
for the incontinence
what you do is purchase either doggie diapers or boys underwear ( tail thru the fly). Dogs have no hips, so measure his waist and go to the smaller size. Use woman sanitary pads or incontinence pads that are for humans ( even in the doggie diapers these will work better than the pads they sell to go with the doggie diapers). I would also consider getting "chucks" which are available at the hospital supply store, possibly the drug store also. They are plastic sheet with cotton on one side - exactly like "puppy pads" you see in the pet store - same thing. I would consider getting some of these and putting them down inside so your pup can be inside with you. If he was normally inside and now he is in the garage, his spirits are going to have a big effect on his progress. If he is down in the dumps and/or feeling sorry for himself, he is not going to have the determination he needs to get better. I have also seen it recommended to use a mat that you get to put under desk chairs. they are hard, which may be rough on the skin but the spirits I think are more important and it is a trade off. One more thing about the incontinence, I would consider shaving or cutting down the hair in the backend area if you haven't already to make it easier on yourself and also to keep him cleaner. I have a friend whose one dog is in "pants" all the time. She has found that they need to have three in order for it to work. She does laundry each night when she gets home from work. One is soiled in the morning, and they put on a fresh one. That one is soiled when they get home from work, so they put on a fresh one and the other two are in the wash. Hope this helps!
Re: for the incontinence
Shaving really is a big help, and a veterinary clinic will do it for you even if they don't do grooming, because it involves hygiene. They do it all the time. Just call and ask what they charge--shouldn't be much. My old dog had a long beautiful coat and when he became mainly bedfast, shaving helped a lot. We did the area around and below the anus, but also the area on the underside of the tail itself near the root. Then down the inside of the thighs, and all of the lower abdomen around the male area. It didn't spoil his appearance in the least because most of the shaving was out of sight, and it gave him a handsome slim-waisted look when seen from the side, as if he'd had a tummy tuck. You could also touch him up yourself with a Wahl home haircutting kit which runs about $15 at Wal-Mart.
Re: FCE
Hi,
Sara has suffered FCE 9 months ago and has probably reached her maximum. She also pees and poops while walking. When pooping she "separates" her stool in smaller "portions" and walks a few steps in order not to fall back in it as her rear limbs are not strong enough. Peeing shines to be more difficult. In her cart she pees without problems - she pulls her rear limbs higher starts to pee and in the end she moves her limbs up and down in order to really "pump" the remaining urine out of her. Without a cart she does not manage it without getting her bottom wet but also tries to eliminate this by moving forward.
I also agree that the state of mind of the dog is the clew of recovery. Sara shows different style of walking in the country side - where she loves to be- and a worse one in the town. So if you somehow can manage it take your dog back into the family - for a good recovery you need a happy and optimistic dog. I know that it is difficult in the flat. Sara also poops in the flat. Therefore she is on a strong diet and her stool quality is really good without leaving anything visible on the carpet. We use Eukanuba light for large breeds. Believe me that the recovery time is the most difficult one as it is an unusual life for all of you.
I wish you a lot of patience and luck. If you have any questions do not hesitate to contact me.
Pavla
Sara has suffered FCE 9 months ago and has probably reached her maximum. She also pees and poops while walking. When pooping she "separates" her stool in smaller "portions" and walks a few steps in order not to fall back in it as her rear limbs are not strong enough. Peeing shines to be more difficult. In her cart she pees without problems - she pulls her rear limbs higher starts to pee and in the end she moves her limbs up and down in order to really "pump" the remaining urine out of her. Without a cart she does not manage it without getting her bottom wet but also tries to eliminate this by moving forward.
I also agree that the state of mind of the dog is the clew of recovery. Sara shows different style of walking in the country side - where she loves to be- and a worse one in the town. So if you somehow can manage it take your dog back into the family - for a good recovery you need a happy and optimistic dog. I know that it is difficult in the flat. Sara also poops in the flat. Therefore she is on a strong diet and her stool quality is really good without leaving anything visible on the carpet. We use Eukanuba light for large breeds. Believe me that the recovery time is the most difficult one as it is an unusual life for all of you.
I wish you a lot of patience and luck. If you have any questions do not hesitate to contact me.
Pavla