News: might be deep pain again?

[connie]

hi everyone,
all this weekend i would grab cricket's feet and pinch hard while he wasn't looking. every time, he jumped them back and growled at me.
i called vet tonight and she said it WAS possible it might be coming back. 9 months after surgery. he seems to be standing and walking better also. am i right to be so hopeful?
i am blessed to have him the way he is, so healthy and running with no cart, but it would be wonderful for him to recover completely.
any more exercises i need to do? i am working so late hours it will be a while till the vet can check him out. but she is hopeful also. he sure is a determined little cuss let me tell you. lol

hugs,

connie and cricket

[Cindidoxiemom]

Connie,
Oh yeah it is totally possible. Remember, Oscar regained deep pain after 8 months. Do you know how to do joint isolations? Also...stand cricket up and PLACE his foot on the ground so the pads are stimulated. Massage, and this may sound silly, but my surgeon said firm scratching of the effected areas helps stimulate the nerves. I have a feeling Cricket has and has had some deep pain for awhile...
Awesome news!
Cindi

[connie]

thanks cindi, i've been doing all of that. he can stand on paws fine, been doing that since back healed, he eats standing on all fours. that's why i was so hopeful. it has just been lately that he seemed to be getting the deep pain back. he don't know it yet, but that just increased his P.T. workouts. lol
we try everything, if i read it, i try it, if i think of it, i try it. he has been good so far, but sometimes he looks up at me and SIGNSSS(((.
like he saying"hey what we gonna do next? lol.
i always said he was a miracle, maybe he will be a complete one. whatever happens, he is happy and healthy and runs all over, so i am blessed.

thanks and hugs

connie

[brenda]

You are all giving me hope-my Lila started dragging her hind legs on Saturday-by the time I got her to my regular vet, he said that deep pain sensation loss for longer than 24 hours makes her not a candidate for surgery. We have initiated corticosteroid therapy, but are thinking that we will be altering our lifestyle soon to accomodate a handicapped dog. My vet has discouraged euthanizing her, saying that we will just have to make a few changes. I hope so-I'd sell everything I own to keep her. Please tell me your experiences so that I can feel better for the decisions I've made so far. Should I still consider surgery even though my vet says the outcome probably wouldn't be good? Lila has a possibility of gaining her mobility several weeks down the road, if we follow her current care. There is not anyone who can perform the surgery in my city, I would have to take her to Dallas or College Station, and they can't give me anything better than a 30% chance.

[Carol T.]

Although I don't have the info you need (others do), I wanted to comment on your wonderful vet!! So many people on this board have encountered vets who are almost adamant that a dog should be euthanized if it can't walk!! Hug your vet for me!!!

[Cindidoxiemom]

I hate when vets say that. Bologna...I know of dogs that were down for MONTHS with no deep pain that had successful surgery. My own Hunter was down 3 days before surgery and he walked one day post op. If you can...pack your bags and go to College Station! Oscar had his surgery there...Hunter had his at Gulf Coast in Houston. Where are you?
Go to Texas A&M let them do a myelogram. Let them evaluate your baby. They are VERY experienced in dealing with IVDD puppers.
Is she deep pain negative? If so, how did they determine this?
Is she on prednisone and pepsid for her tummy?
Is she currently on STRICT crate rest meaning NO scooting or walking...the only time out of the crate is to potty and you must carry her.
Is she able to urinate on her own?
I have more experience with IVDD than I would ever care to. Two of my three dachshunds have gone down.
If she was my dog, I would be on the road to Texas A&M first thing in the morning. If Dr. Au is there talk to her. She knows how hard dachshunds will fight.
I do agree with your vet that there is no need to put your baby down. Even IF and that is a huge IF ..so many of these babies recover...IF she remainds paralyzed, she can still live a full, happy and healthy life. Oscar...my baby is living proof. AND he regaind deep pain..AFTER surgery and AFTER 8 months. Don't give up on her!
If there is ANYTHING I can do to help you please let me know.
HUGS and many prayers coming your way,
Cindi

[Cindidoxiemom]

[critters]

I was going to comment on that, too; it's nice to know there are some out there!

[connie]

my vet said cricket had 24 hours to get into surgery . i was about 3 hours late. they gave me a 50-50 chance but i took it. and he is amazing. i crated him for 6 weeks, did lots of a P.T.
it is a slow progress, but we are getting there. just this weekend he is showing signs of deep pain again .both my vets didn't give much hope of ever walking, just supported me. now they are gonna eat their words. lol
didn't your vet say anything about crate rest?
need more info .
take care, praying for you both.

hugs,

connie and cricket

[Cindidoxiemom]

Connie~
24 hours is ideal...however we must dispell the myth that there is no chance for recovery after 24 hours. The 24 hours reffers to after a dogs is down and with no deep pain response. But like I said...I personally have a dog that was down close to 72 (He went down Sat and wasn't in surgery until Monday.) hours and walked one day post op, and there are MANY over at Dodgers that were operated on after that window that have done VERY well...including a rescue that was operated on months after going down. If we keep up the 24 hour "rule" people will be putting down dogs that have a VERY good chance of recovery! Oscar was in surgery within 6 hours...I knew the signs having been through it with Hunter two times. Oscar is just now, 8 months later getting his deep pain back...and Hunter who was down 72 hours the first time before surgery walked out of the hopital. The location, degree of rupture,time, surgeon, therapy all play a part in the suceess of IVDD surgery and recovery. My own surgeon said that in vet neurology, they needed rewrite the books on IVDD, therapy and recovery because so many were recovering that they felt wouldn't. Dogs just like Cricket and Oscar who regain deep pain after months. My surgeon never said never, but she was pretty sure after 2 months that Oscar would never regain deep paoin or movement. It took him 8 but he did. Sorry to ramble...but obviously this is my passion...too many dogs that have been put to sleep could have been saved if the proper information was out there.
Cindi

[Jane Scott]

Hi! Cindi,would you please explain how to do joint isolations. My vet isn't very forthcoming nor supportive so most of my education is coming from this board and other internet resources. Thanks for your help. Jane

[Cindidoxiemom]

Jane~
Not a problem. Basically at the tarsus (ankle) and Stifle (knee) you want to pull in oposition on either side of the joint. Now, this must be a small movement and done gently. Do this about 10 times on each joint. My PT up at A&M said that this really stimulated the nerves around the joint which of course are necessary for walking. I have several pages of PT directions. I will try to scan them into my computer today. If you want, perhaps I can send them to you email?
Cindi

[brenda.holloway]

Cindi:

Thank you so much (and everyone else) for all the encouragement. I AM crating Lila while she's on dexamethasone, we're also giving her antibiotic, tramadol (for pain) and another medicine for bladder control. I learned how to help her urinate (she dribbled a little, but wasn't able to completely empty her bladder), and last night she had her first BM since this all started over the weekend. She is eating fine, and acting normal except for dragging her hind legs. I have been doing range of motion to keep her muscles from becoming contracted. I live in Tyler, so I am going to look into going to College Station at least for a myelogram. Her area of injury is the thoracic/lumbar transition-the way they determined that she was deep pain negative was by clamping a hemostat to her foot. She didn't even know it was there. I don't think there are very many vets here in Tyler who are very experienced with IVDD, most of the information I've gotten has been from internet research. My vet is WONDERFUL; we are very well established with him and he is very encouraging, but I think he is afraid to give me false hope. I am very worried about invasive surgery, because she really doesn't seem to be in any pain. Thank you for your support-if you have any more advice, please let me know. In the meantime, I'm going to try to find the vet in College Station that you recommended. Wish me luck!!!!

Brenda

[Cindidoxiemom]

The area of your little one's rupture is very common and exactly where Oscar's rupture is(T11-L1). I understand your fear of surgery hon, but if the myelogram shows that surgery would help, I would go for it. Mine have been through surgery 3 times...and they have done very well. Join Dodger's. Read through their materials, files and databases...you will see 100s of dogs that have defied the "odds" and what vets and numbers said. Dr. Au is at Texas A&M small animal clinic. If she isn't there, any of the neruos there can help.
I'm glad you are expressing her, and keeping her crated...just don't let her drag.
I guess what I'm trying to express and doing a poor job of it is...if you don't WANT to do the surgery, that is one thing, you have the right to choose the course of treatment that you feel is best, but I would reserve judgement on surgery until you have had a myelogram and talked to Texas A&M.
Don't worry about doing exercises right now with her...they are risky with her injury so fresh. Think of it this way...there is a disc pressing on her spinal cord, if you move her wrong or torque her accidently, the damage could worsen. You will have months and months in the future to do the exersises and therapy.
Let me know how things go at A&M...please...and I will be saying prayers for you both.
Hugs,
cindi


Dodger'sList

[brenda.holloway]

Cindi:

I joined Dodgers List and called A & M. I'm waiting for my vet to call me back because he has to make the referral. I don't think I can afford to take her there. I've already paid close to $700.00 in the past 2 days and they want $1000.00 more when I come in. They'll let me pay it out within 6 months after. I told them that I wasn't sure if I could afford it, but they said that they may be able to work something out. I will keep you posted on what happens. Thank you again for all the support. You would love Lila-she is a black long-haired mini.

Brenda