Tank, our French Bulldog, had IVDD surgery 10 months ago. He recovered nicely, but on Sunday, he was in pain with a bit of neurological deficit so we brought him in to the vet.
After an MRI, it looks like he has another slipped disc, as well as a hemivertebrae (previously was described to us as a butterfly vertebrae) which is now pushing against his spine.
I understand how a slipped disc is treated because we've been there before, but does anyone here have experience with hemivertebrae issues?
At the recommendation of our neurologist, we are bringing him to UC Davis tomorrow morning for their opinion, as they have more expertise with this kind of injury. But i've had a hard time finding out things like treatment options and success rates online, so it would be helpful if anyone here knows more about the different options.
Also, i've uploaded a copy of his current and prior MRI to http://3e0.com/tank_mri.zip in case any of you are curious. You can view it with this free viewer: http://www.microdicom.com/
Thanks, and keep your fingers crossed for Tank!
Mark
Another slipped disc + hemivertebrae :(
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Re: Another slipped disc + hemivertebrae :(
Hi - glad you found this site! It helped me tremendously with Tucker, my pug with hemivertebrae. Tucker's neurologist didn't recommend surgery 8 years ago when he was diagnosed. However, a recent newcomer here went to a specialist at University of Florida who has many years of experience treating dogs with hemivertebrae. He would have recommended a different kind of surgery than what their westie Lola had. Unfortunately it couldn't be redone. I sent her a message and a link to your message here so she could respond with up-to-date information she received on treatment. In a lot of cases, dogs can compensate for the hemivertebrae and there is little impact on them. Tucker has a severe deformity but he's a happy guy and goes around making friends with everyone. He uses a wheelchair and stroller but he doesn't know he has a problem.
Sending positive thoughts for a good outcome.
Sending positive thoughts for a good outcome.
Re: Another slipped disc + hemivertebrae :(
Hi there,
I'm Lola's owner. First of all I want to let you know how sorry I am. This is a tough time but I can tell you that it will get better. I highly highly recommend you go see Dr Clemmons at the Univeristy of Miami. Although it sounds to me that the hemivertebrae may not be as severe as Lola's since it went undiagnosed for awhile (Lola's was apparent at 4 months) and most likely they will recommend predisone, cage rest, and therapy. If they recommend surgery do not let them operate if their train of thought is too decompress the spine by removing the tops of the vertebrae. This will not work and it will get worse a few months down the road. I have so much Information for you I don't even know where to start. If you like you can email me directly. I will private message you my email later. Also check out my post. It's called Help! Westie with a hemivertebrae. Also Google DR clemmons bulldog hemivertebrae. You can read on a very succesful case he worked on. Good luck and lots of light your way for you and your pup.
I'm Lola's owner. First of all I want to let you know how sorry I am. This is a tough time but I can tell you that it will get better. I highly highly recommend you go see Dr Clemmons at the Univeristy of Miami. Although it sounds to me that the hemivertebrae may not be as severe as Lola's since it went undiagnosed for awhile (Lola's was apparent at 4 months) and most likely they will recommend predisone, cage rest, and therapy. If they recommend surgery do not let them operate if their train of thought is too decompress the spine by removing the tops of the vertebrae. This will not work and it will get worse a few months down the road. I have so much Information for you I don't even know where to start. If you like you can email me directly. I will private message you my email later. Also check out my post. It's called Help! Westie with a hemivertebrae. Also Google DR clemmons bulldog hemivertebrae. You can read on a very succesful case he worked on. Good luck and lots of light your way for you and your pup.
Re: Another slipped disc + hemivertebrae :(
So for a little more history, Tank is a 4 year old French Bulldog. He's a bit older than the other dogs i've read about who have hemivertebrae issues.
From what the doctor said, the hemivertebrae is pushing on the left side of his spine, and it's unclear whether the slipped disc or hemivertebrae is causing his current issue.
Heading out to UC Davis in a few minutes, hoping for the best for Tank
Mark
From what the doctor said, the hemivertebrae is pushing on the left side of his spine, and it's unclear whether the slipped disc or hemivertebrae is causing his current issue.
Heading out to UC Davis in a few minutes, hoping for the best for Tank
Mark
Re: Another slipped disc + hemivertebrae :(
Here is the link http://news.ufl.edu/archive/1996/11/gat ... llege.html
Good luck and keep us posted!
Good luck and keep us posted!
Re: Another slipped disc + hemivertebrae :(
Thank you for the link!
Several doctors at UC Davis reviewed the current and prior MRI, and have came to the conclusion that the hemi vertebra does not appear to have moved since the last MRI, and appears to be stable, with the caveat that since the MRI did not target that area specifically, they do not have the same level of detail in that area especially because they lack slices from front to back, only from top down.
We discussed all the different options at length, and have decided to go ahead with the surgery on the slipped disc, on the assumption that the hemi vertebra does not appear visually to be the current cause of his condition, nor extremely likely to cause a problem in the future, and his age is not typical for an occurrence of this condition, and the hemi vertebra is a fairly common occurrence even within healthy dogs within his breed. In addition, given the high risks of destabilizing the back, they would only do it if they were 100% sure that it was the cause of an immediate paralyzing neurological problem, and given the presence of a slipped disc that certainty does not exist.
So on Monday, he is headed in for surgery on his slipped disc. Hopefully the surgery goes well and he can recover from this as well as he did last time.
Here is a photo of him with his other Frenchie coworkers (he's the guy on the right)
Several doctors at UC Davis reviewed the current and prior MRI, and have came to the conclusion that the hemi vertebra does not appear to have moved since the last MRI, and appears to be stable, with the caveat that since the MRI did not target that area specifically, they do not have the same level of detail in that area especially because they lack slices from front to back, only from top down.
We discussed all the different options at length, and have decided to go ahead with the surgery on the slipped disc, on the assumption that the hemi vertebra does not appear visually to be the current cause of his condition, nor extremely likely to cause a problem in the future, and his age is not typical for an occurrence of this condition, and the hemi vertebra is a fairly common occurrence even within healthy dogs within his breed. In addition, given the high risks of destabilizing the back, they would only do it if they were 100% sure that it was the cause of an immediate paralyzing neurological problem, and given the presence of a slipped disc that certainty does not exist.
So on Monday, he is headed in for surgery on his slipped disc. Hopefully the surgery goes well and he can recover from this as well as he did last time.
Here is a photo of him with his other Frenchie coworkers (he's the guy on the right)
Re: Another slipped disc + hemivertebrae :(
He's beautiful! I'm so glad it's not a hemivertebrae that's causin the issues. Please keep us posted. Speedy recovery for Tank! I hear that slipped discs are very treatable. Good news!
Re: Another slipped disc + hemivertebrae :(
Yes, after surgery for his first slipped disc he was back walking in no time and 90% recovered after 3 months, 95% after six months, it really is a miracle surgery with great odds for functional recovery, so now we are hoping for the best vs. worrying about the worst.Caritrueb wrote:He's beautiful! I'm so glad it's not a hemivertebrae that's causin the issues. Please keep us posted. Speedy recovery for Tank! I hear that slipped discs are very treatable. Good news!
Mark
Re: Another slipped disc + hemivertebrae :(
So we dropped Tank off at UC Davis tonight, and he is scheduled for disc surgery tomorrow.
After discussing the hemivertebra with my wife, we are thinking it might be prudent to have the MRI reviewed by a 3rd neurologist. We have one neurologist who insists their is a hemivertebra issue, and at a minimum recommends steroid treatment, and one or more neurologists from Davis that do not think their is an issue and would prefer a short period of rimadyl after surgery for the slipped disc, and no steroid treatment.
For obvious reasons we prefer the opinion that UC Davis gave us, but it would be a shame to ignore the issue if it did indeed exist, especially if it would warrant some preemptive treatment such as steroids or specific physical therapy.
I was thinking of reaching out to Dr Clemmons to see if he would be willing to review the MRI and give his opinion on the state of the hemivertebra, failing that possibly getting an opinion from another local neurologist.
Thanks,
Mark
After discussing the hemivertebra with my wife, we are thinking it might be prudent to have the MRI reviewed by a 3rd neurologist. We have one neurologist who insists their is a hemivertebra issue, and at a minimum recommends steroid treatment, and one or more neurologists from Davis that do not think their is an issue and would prefer a short period of rimadyl after surgery for the slipped disc, and no steroid treatment.
For obvious reasons we prefer the opinion that UC Davis gave us, but it would be a shame to ignore the issue if it did indeed exist, especially if it would warrant some preemptive treatment such as steroids or specific physical therapy.
I was thinking of reaching out to Dr Clemmons to see if he would be willing to review the MRI and give his opinion on the state of the hemivertebra, failing that possibly getting an opinion from another local neurologist.
Thanks,
Mark
Re: Another slipped disc + hemivertebrae :(
Mark,
Honestly in my opinion if the Hemivertebrae was severe like Lola's, Tank would have never walked past the age of 4 months. those are really severe cases. Most Bulldogs and bulldog like breeds normally have a hemivertebrae very low in their spine that causes their tail to curl. If they are born with they hemivertebrae a little higher up it could cause problems. I believe if Tanks hemivertebrae is starting to cause him problems the first step would be a conservative approach in treatment and that means giving him predisone for a few weeks, tapering off the dosage until it's done along with cage rest. Cage rest is crucial and it is not the same to block him off in a little area where he can maybe move around a little. That little bit could set him back. I don't think dr clemmons is necessary in this case but of course you can contact him. Call me if you want to discuss. I would be available tonight.
Honestly in my opinion if the Hemivertebrae was severe like Lola's, Tank would have never walked past the age of 4 months. those are really severe cases. Most Bulldogs and bulldog like breeds normally have a hemivertebrae very low in their spine that causes their tail to curl. If they are born with they hemivertebrae a little higher up it could cause problems. I believe if Tanks hemivertebrae is starting to cause him problems the first step would be a conservative approach in treatment and that means giving him predisone for a few weeks, tapering off the dosage until it's done along with cage rest. Cage rest is crucial and it is not the same to block him off in a little area where he can maybe move around a little. That little bit could set him back. I don't think dr clemmons is necessary in this case but of course you can contact him. Call me if you want to discuss. I would be available tonight.
Re: Another slipped disc + hemivertebrae :(
Sorry for not posting any updates, it's been a loooong week with working and driving 4 hours and multiple phones calls and worrying.
Tank went in for disc surgery on Monday. They found a large amount of fluid and blood around the disc site, and moderate protrusion of the disc into the spinal cord, it appears as though the disc ruptured very recently, and seemed to have caused more pain than neurological deficit, which is a good thing.
UC Davis was absolutely fantastic. I was very surprised by how thorough they were with all of his neurological test, and how they weened him off meds and a catheter very quickly, and how disciplined the entire process was. He had a student and a neurologist assigned to him, and I feel very confident that they did an excellent job on the surgery, and I could tell that due to it being a teaching hospital they were very up to speed with all the latest information on disc disease. The cost was around 60% of what we paid for his first surgery, and slightly less than the low end of the estimate, which was a really nice surprise.
We picked him up yesterday, he has been resting and relaxing in his crate but he is up on his back legs, peeing and pooping and smiling, a little bit wobbly but nowhere near as bad as he was last time around. It's going to be a long month watching him in the crate....
Tank went in for disc surgery on Monday. They found a large amount of fluid and blood around the disc site, and moderate protrusion of the disc into the spinal cord, it appears as though the disc ruptured very recently, and seemed to have caused more pain than neurological deficit, which is a good thing.
UC Davis was absolutely fantastic. I was very surprised by how thorough they were with all of his neurological test, and how they weened him off meds and a catheter very quickly, and how disciplined the entire process was. He had a student and a neurologist assigned to him, and I feel very confident that they did an excellent job on the surgery, and I could tell that due to it being a teaching hospital they were very up to speed with all the latest information on disc disease. The cost was around 60% of what we paid for his first surgery, and slightly less than the low end of the estimate, which was a really nice surprise.
We picked him up yesterday, he has been resting and relaxing in his crate but he is up on his back legs, peeing and pooping and smiling, a little bit wobbly but nowhere near as bad as he was last time around. It's going to be a long month watching him in the crate....
Re: Another slipped disc + hemivertebrae :(
So good to hear! I'm glad his surgery went well. The crate rest is the worst! But knowing its for their own good helps. He will be back up and running in no time. So happy it wasn't a hemivertebrae. Please keep us posted. Speedy recovery to Tank!