The only suggestion I have is to start at this post, and if it seems of interest, go back and read the whole 5-page thread. The cause of the bladder condition may be different but the story of not being able to express is so similar. You have to understand that when they got to this point, they had gone through grueling months of difficulty and thousands of dollars and were out of options.
http://handicappedpet.net/helppets/view ... =60#p86748
Expressing a large atonic bladder
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Re: Expressing a large atonic bladder
Thank you, that post is indeed very interesting. I will read the full thread now (and the website) the question that pops up straight away is how long Raz had been at home for without being able to be expressed. Basically, if I take him home for the "last time" from then on we are on very limited time. If we stop his medication and stop trying to express him it would be only about 24-48 hours until his big flaccid bladder is full, and if he still can't go - what do we do? Go back to the hospital (the "second" hospital that seems to have distended his bladder because that's a closer and less stressful trip for him - 5km vs 70) to get them to catheterize again? Have them drain him with a needle? How often do we do this, and how long for? Maybe I can find a vet who can come and do the catheterization at home, since it is apparently now easier after the urethrostomy. I will try to find a holistic home-visit vet as well. Looking at the site it also seems like Raz _was_ able to be expressed at some point at first (reading now!)CarolC wrote:The only suggestion I have is to start at this post, and if it seems of interest, go back and read the whole 5-page thread. The cause of the bladder condition may be different but the story of not being able to express is so similar. You have to understand that when they got to this point, they had gone through grueling months of difficulty and thousands of dollars and were out of options.
http://handicappedpet.net/helppets/view ... =60#p86748
EDIT: I have decided that I will ask if this condition is manageable with at least daily catheterization (without putting him under general anaesthesia each day). If so, and if us doing it ourselves or having a vet come do it at home every 24 hours is not an option, I will ask if one of the vets there might be interested in adopting him and managing his condition. We'll offer to pay for all of his living expenses. Maybe if he is with a professional they can take care of him properly.
Re: Expressing a large atonic bladder
Found a holistic vet who will try to help. We will see what the vet says in today's call and take it from there. I will ask the hospital if they would let her come and administer acupuncture treatment, and she has some "natural remedies" that she can try, but first she wants to observe our kitten and see both his physical state and disposition. She lives very far from us but in the same area as the hospital, so if today the vet calls and says it's time to give up I can stop by her house on our way home to visit her. She also knows of another holistic vet closer to us who may be able to see us in our own house tomorrow if she isn't able to drive down that far. At this point traditional medicine hasn't helped, so maybe it's time to try alternative medicine and maybe she'd be willing to try expressing in a calmer environment as well. I do not want him to begin to suffer, so I know our time to try this is limited, but it seems that it would at least be worth a last shot.
Re: Expressing a large atonic bladder
He peed this morning!
I took him home from the hospital last night to spend his last day with us. If he didn't at least try to pee within 24 hours he would have to be put to sleep. I couldn't find a home veterinarian who was willing to try to express him, so she would just come and put him to sleep
I took off his post-surgery collar and didn't sleep, watching to make sure he didn't start licking his stitches. He didn't try to go to the box at all. This morning (about 17-18 hours after they last drained him by my count) he sniffed around the boxes a little and I gently put him inside one. He dug around, sat there for 1-2 minutes, and peed! We're transitioning litters from clay clumping to wood clumping (our other kitten seems like she might be allergic to the dust from the clay litter) so what ended up was a clump of urine in the mix of clay/wood litter. I wish there was an easy way to tell volume, but it is about 9cm x 5cm x 2-3cm. A smaller piece also crumbled off that's 5cm x 3cm.
I called the vet straight away and am waiting for them to call me back. I have no idea how to proceed - dragging him on a two hour train(s) trip back to the hospital where he COULDN'T pee to get evaluated seems like it would just make him even more stressed, but I'm afraid they're going to insist on this. I will see if they let me take him to a closer vet.
He also hasn't pooped at home yet - I hear that constipation is sometimes expected after surgery and he did just have a urethrostomy. When the vet calls back I will ask when he last defecated there.
They also said there was a lot of blood in his urine when I was picking him up, and they didn't know why - apparently there was too much blood to do a culture. I can't see any red or brown in the clump I extracted from the litter box, though maybe it has soaked in somehow and isn't visible.
My nerves are shot. I can't even be happy even though this is the first time he's peed on his own in weeks. I have no idea if something else will go wrong or if he'll make it. Right now he's just really tired and has been sleeping all morning.
I took him home from the hospital last night to spend his last day with us. If he didn't at least try to pee within 24 hours he would have to be put to sleep. I couldn't find a home veterinarian who was willing to try to express him, so she would just come and put him to sleep
I took off his post-surgery collar and didn't sleep, watching to make sure he didn't start licking his stitches. He didn't try to go to the box at all. This morning (about 17-18 hours after they last drained him by my count) he sniffed around the boxes a little and I gently put him inside one. He dug around, sat there for 1-2 minutes, and peed! We're transitioning litters from clay clumping to wood clumping (our other kitten seems like she might be allergic to the dust from the clay litter) so what ended up was a clump of urine in the mix of clay/wood litter. I wish there was an easy way to tell volume, but it is about 9cm x 5cm x 2-3cm. A smaller piece also crumbled off that's 5cm x 3cm.
I called the vet straight away and am waiting for them to call me back. I have no idea how to proceed - dragging him on a two hour train(s) trip back to the hospital where he COULDN'T pee to get evaluated seems like it would just make him even more stressed, but I'm afraid they're going to insist on this. I will see if they let me take him to a closer vet.
He also hasn't pooped at home yet - I hear that constipation is sometimes expected after surgery and he did just have a urethrostomy. When the vet calls back I will ask when he last defecated there.
They also said there was a lot of blood in his urine when I was picking him up, and they didn't know why - apparently there was too much blood to do a culture. I can't see any red or brown in the clump I extracted from the litter box, though maybe it has soaked in somehow and isn't visible.
My nerves are shot. I can't even be happy even though this is the first time he's peed on his own in weeks. I have no idea if something else will go wrong or if he'll make it. Right now he's just really tired and has been sleeping all morning.
Re: Expressing a large atonic bladder
I understand; it's just the only way I have to post a pic these days since laptops only last a few months. It's just a short little book trying to expose kids to differences and disabilities in a positive way. Most of my wonky critters, and my sister's, have books.drakonka wrote:Oh no I am so sorry this happened to Buddy and you, that sounds awful. It's shocking how many bad vets there are - I never even thought about it until this whole fiasco. I will be sure to buy the ebook after this whole thing is over - right now I'm saving every dollar for vet bills and refusing to spend money on anything else.critters wrote:Yes, I learned to express him, but he developed a spasm at the neck of his bladder after having had pee crystals. This was quite a few years ago (like 8 or 10?), and I took him 60 miles for a urethrostomy. The place was AWFUL and didn't put the right tube in his urethrostomy, it fell out, and they, and everybody else, refused to replace it, so I had to PTS him because he couldn't pee. That's the nut shell of it. He got his spinal cord injury from being hit by a car, but he eventually got ALL of his function back, only to lose it again. http://www.amazon.com/Buddy-Easy-Reader ... slow+buddy
Re: Expressing a large atonic bladder
Of course you're on edge; it's been a VERY hard road. Furs never seem to sleep much or well at vets, so they make up for it when they get home.drakonka wrote:He peed this morning! By himself??!!! That's amazing!
I took him home from the hospital last night to spend his last day with us. If he didn't at least try to pee within 24 hours he would have to be put to sleep. I couldn't find a home veterinarian who was willing to try to express him, so she would just come and put him to sleep
I took off his post-surgery collar and didn't sleep, watching to make sure he didn't start licking his stitches. He didn't try to go to the box at all. This morning (about 17-18 hours after they last drained him by my count) he sniffed around the boxes a little and I gently put him inside one. He dug around, sat there for 1-2 minutes, and peed! We're transitioning litters from clay clumping to wood clumping (our other kitten seems like she might be allergic to the dust from the clay litter) so what ended up was a clump of urine in the mix of clay/wood litter. I wish there was an easy way to tell volume, but it is about 9cm x 5cm x 2-3cm. A smaller piece also crumbled off that's 5cm x 3cm.
I called the vet straight away and am waiting for them to call me back. I have no idea how to proceed - dragging him on a two hour train(s) trip back to the hospital where he COULDN'T pee to get evaluated seems like it would just make him even more stressed, but I'm afraid they're going to insist on this. I will see if they let me take him to a closer vet.
He also hasn't pooped at home yet - I hear that constipation is sometimes expected after surgery and he did just have a urethrostomy. When the vet calls back I will ask when he last defecated there. Yes, and he probably wasn't allowed to eat much there. At this point, I wouldn't worry too much about pooping.
They also said there was a lot of blood in his urine when I was picking him up, and they didn't know why - apparently there was too much blood to do a culture. I can't see any red or brown in the clump I extracted from the litter box, though maybe it has soaked in somehow and isn't visible. In my experience, blood stays on the outside of clumpy litter and is pretty obvious.
My nerves are shot. I can't even be happy even though this is the first time he's peed on his own in weeks. I have no idea if something else will go wrong or if he'll make it. Right now he's just really tired and has been sleeping all morning.
Re: Expressing a large atonic bladder
Thanks so much for replying.critters wrote:Of course you're on edge; it's been a VERY hard road. Furs never seem to sleep much or well at vets, so they make up for it when they get home.drakonka wrote:He peed this morning! By himself??!!! That's amazing!
I took him home from the hospital last night to spend his last day with us. If he didn't at least try to pee within 24 hours he would have to be put to sleep. I couldn't find a home veterinarian who was willing to try to express him, so she would just come and put him to sleep
I took off his post-surgery collar and didn't sleep, watching to make sure he didn't start licking his stitches. He didn't try to go to the box at all. This morning (about 17-18 hours after they last drained him by my count) he sniffed around the boxes a little and I gently put him inside one. He dug around, sat there for 1-2 minutes, and peed! We're transitioning litters from clay clumping to wood clumping (our other kitten seems like she might be allergic to the dust from the clay litter) so what ended up was a clump of urine in the mix of clay/wood litter. I wish there was an easy way to tell volume, but it is about 9cm x 5cm x 2-3cm. A smaller piece also crumbled off that's 5cm x 3cm.
I called the vet straight away and am waiting for them to call me back. I have no idea how to proceed - dragging him on a two hour train(s) trip back to the hospital where he COULDN'T pee to get evaluated seems like it would just make him even more stressed, but I'm afraid they're going to insist on this. I will see if they let me take him to a closer vet.
He also hasn't pooped at home yet - I hear that constipation is sometimes expected after surgery and he did just have a urethrostomy. When the vet calls back I will ask when he last defecated there. Yes, and he probably wasn't allowed to eat much there. At this point, I wouldn't worry too much about pooping.
They also said there was a lot of blood in his urine when I was picking him up, and they didn't know why - apparently there was too much blood to do a culture. I can't see any red or brown in the clump I extracted from the litter box, though maybe it has soaked in somehow and isn't visible. In my experience, blood stays on the outside of clumpy litter and is pretty obvious.
My nerves are shot. I can't even be happy even though this is the first time he's peed on his own in weeks. I have no idea if something else will go wrong or if he'll make it. Right now he's just really tired and has been sleeping all morning.
Nobody's been able to express him at all! And they say because they can't do it surely we can't. It's infuriating because I keep reading about how manageable this condition is with expression, but nobody can show us how!
He is just so exhausted right now. They say he ate very well while there but I can see that he lost weight. I bet the drugs are making him tired as well - I hope it's just that, but I am so paranoid.
We have a very limited supply of myocholine for him (enough to last a few days), so I'm afraid I'm going to have to drag him back there to get any more, if this is what he needs. What's more apparently it is a very restricted medicine in this country - you need government approval to get it, so I'm not even sure how easy it would be for those vets to even get more for him.
Maybe all the vet really needed to do was wait longer before emptying his bladder when he was on the new medication - I don't think they ever waited as long as 17 hours, which is how long it took him this time. I don't know if he has emptied it completely and was hoping that the vet who would be putting him to sleep at home could still come and show us how to feel his bladder, and inspect it herself, but she refuses - she says we have to drag him back to the hospital 2 hours away. These trips are so stressful for him I hope there is some other way.
Edit: I also just noticed that his anal entry looks more "open" than normal. I don't know if this is normal after the surgery, but usually it's quite tight/closed whereas now you can kind of see "in" it more.
Re: Expressing a large atonic bladder
Hmm, I wonder if the stricture, spasm, or whatever keeps him from being expressed, too?
I just looked up "myocholine" to see what it's called in this country, and it's bethanechol, which made Buddy IMPOSSIBLE to express. It increased the spasticity of the spasm unbelievably; in fact, the vet didn't believe it until she took Buddy home for the weekend and, unbeknownst to me, did a drug trial. PBZ (penoxybenzamine) kept Buddy peeing for a months before the spasm increased on its own. Just an FYI that it's possible that the drug could be making the problems worse...
I just looked up "myocholine" to see what it's called in this country, and it's bethanechol, which made Buddy IMPOSSIBLE to express. It increased the spasticity of the spasm unbelievably; in fact, the vet didn't believe it until she took Buddy home for the weekend and, unbeknownst to me, did a drug trial. PBZ (penoxybenzamine) kept Buddy peeing for a months before the spasm increased on its own. Just an FYI that it's possible that the drug could be making the problems worse...
Re: Expressing a large atonic bladder
PS--In the US, myocholine is a prescription item, but it wasn't terribly hard to get in Buddy's time. I don't know why it's so hard for you to get.
Re: Expressing a large atonic bladder
Oh no! I have no idea what to do now. I know he is also on medication to relax the sphincter alongside myocholine. Right now in total he is on:critters wrote:Hmm, I wonder if the stricture, spasm, or whatever keeps him from being expressed, too?
I just looked up "myocholine" to see what it's called in this country, and it's bethanechol, which made Buddy IMPOSSIBLE to express. It increased the spasticity of the spasm unbelievably; in fact, the vet didn't believe it until she took Buddy home for the weekend and, unbeknownst to me, did a drug trial. PBZ (penoxybenzamine) kept Buddy peeing for a months before the spasm increased on its own. Just an FYI that it's possible that the drug could be making the problems worse...
- Metacam once a day
- Vetrimoxin twice a day
- Stesolid 3 times a day
- Alfadil 3 times a day
- Myocholine 3 times a day
(I believe one of those is the equivalent of valium)
I'm afraid to just take him off of any medicine now that he just peed. I wish I could tell by bladder feel how full it is, as it is I don't know when I need to expect him to urinate again :S His bladder has been so big and floppy that even the vets have apparently found it difficult to judge how much urine is in there by feel.
Apparently here Myocholine isn't like a normal prescription medication here - pharmacies usually can't just stock it from what I hear, they need approval from some sort of government body for individual use cases.
Re: Expressing a large atonic bladder
For the other US people:
Vetrimoxin is amoxi
Stesolid=diazepam
Alfadil=???
Myocholine=bethanechol
Is there a more local vet you could use who could help sort it all out?
Vetrimoxin is amoxi
Stesolid=diazepam
Alfadil=???
Myocholine=bethanechol
Is there a more local vet you could use who could help sort it all out?
Re: Expressing a large atonic bladder
Unfortunately the local vets are the ones we went to originallycritters wrote:For the other US people:
Vetrimoxin is amoxi
Stesolid=diazepam
Alfadil=???
Myocholine=bethanechol
Is there a more local vet you could use who could help sort it all out?
one infected him, the other distended his bladder. There is a small clinic that we hear is very good about 5km away but they aren't open 24/7 for emergencies and they are also not as well equipped (for example to deal with urethrostomy complications if any). For "regular" stuff not involving surgery we'd like to try taking him there (though I'm not sure if they'd have access to Myocholine). But the big hospital 2 hours away is meant to be the best - if they were closer I wouldn't hesitate. My only worry with going back there is that it would be such a stressful trip for him and he's already been through so much. Also they were the ones who basically said it's time to let him go since he wasn't peeing there and I'm worried about them wanting to keep him there again. I don't even know what's best for him anymore. I don't know if him being home and relaxed had anything to do with him finally peeing, but am worried about turning his environment upside down again and making matters worse!Re: Expressing a large atonic bladder
Today I thought I made a horrible mistake by not putting him to sleep yesterday.
We took him to the local emergency vet yesterday (which was also Vet 2 in our whole vet debacle), since I was very worried about him and was freaking out and because Vet 3 (the latest one) also wanted to get some official records that he was not in pain or suffering, and that his bladder wasn't about to burst. We took him and they did an ultrasound - the bladder was big, but the vet said for him "big" is "normal" (since he seems to have had a big bladder even before all this). She said it wasn't full to the point of bursting and still looked "wavy" instead of round and hard, and that he'd be ok at least for one night if not more. She did see blood there, which Vet 3 already knew about, and said it wasn't uncommon after all of his procedures (he is already on antibiotics for possible infection). She checked his anus because I thought it looked much more "loose" than normal, but said as long as he poops within the next couple of days it should be ok - they probably took his temperature a lot at Vet 3 which would make the sphincter tired, and he's likely still sore from the urethrostomy in that region as well.
This morning, about 7:15am. He tried to poop, but just a little came out and it was very hard. I could see him straining. He hadn't peed since 9:20am yesterday morning - that first time he peed on his own at our house was about 18 hours after they fully drained his bladder at the hospital. When I woke up it was 22. He was very tired and in the morning didn't even want to eat. I thought this must be it. I tried to feel the bladder, and I think I felt it. I tried to press gently to express it but no success - I'm on my own with no on else to hold him, he's big, and I was afraid to apply any real pressure as I was afraid of rupturing it.
I decided as a last ditch effort to try to put him in the box once again to see if he'd pee. He started convulsing in my arms. I was terrified that his bladder had ruptured, started dialing the taxi to take us to the nearest hospital so that he could be put to sleep there but afraid that he was having some sort of seizure and would die in pain on the floor.
He ended up throwing up several clumps of food and some liquid. The food smelled like what the vet had given him yesterday when I was giving him his medications (we were at the vet at the time the next dose was scheduled). I don't think he'd eaten it before. I was hoping that the new strange food just didn't sit well with him, but was afraid that this was a sign of something worse.
After throwing up he trotted downstairs. He seemed...ok. I gently put him in the litter box, still shaking and terrified. He dug around, sat there for what felt like forever, and peed! About the same amount as yesterday, I think, but it came out in shorter more frequent bursts I think because the litter didn't clump into one big clump this time but many smaller ones.
Then he trotted to the kitchen and ate some food, and then drank from the water fountain and bowl for the first time since I brought him home the night before last.
Afterwards he seemed a little more active, even bolted around the room with our other kitten a little. Problem - he was still constipated. The breeders suggested a remedy they use for their small kittens. They sell lots of food in pastes here and there is a kind of cheese from the North of the country that comes in one of these tubes. It is a sweet cheesy paste that they say is safe for cats in moderate amounts. They suggested I mix about 10cm of the paste with hot water and give it to him to loosen the stools.
I put the cone back on him while I ran out to the store for the first time in 3 days. I mixed up the paste as instructed - at first he wasn't into it and I fed it to him with a spoon, but then he grew to like the taste and ate the rest on his own. I think he really hates the cone - it's as if it takes him back to his hospital stay. When I put it on he curled up in the hallway and sat there all bunched up, and when I got back he was still in that same position, seemingly not having moved at all. When I took the cone off he got up and walked around.
Maybe 10-15 minutes later he went to the box again. I thought he was trying to pee again and was unable to, because he dug and dug but nothing came out (just like his previous peeing attempts). Then I tried placing him in our other box hoping he'd try again. He did. This time he sat there for a few minutes and when he came out there was poop there. BUT he couldn't get it all out and it was still coming out of him when he left. He was very uncomfortable and dragging poop along half-out. I took him and gently squeezed it out with a paper towel. I could tell it hurt him a bit, but was thinking it was better than having it lodged in him and also was afraid that if it came in contactwith the urethrostomy site it might introduce more bacteria.
At this time I also noticed the skin around the urethrostomy site bleeding. Maybe he strained so hard that he caused bleeding in that region. I was freaking out again. I called Vet 3 to ask them what to do - they said it SHOULD be ok as long as the bleeding stops and he doesn't seem distressed. It did seem to be stopping, and he wasn't trying to lick at it or anything and didn't seem distressed. so I've left it, but now there is some dark blood there at the skin and some around the opening to the urethra. I'm worried if it dries it might clump up and make hard for him to pee? I was thinking of gently patting it away with a warm moist towel but have no idea if it's safe to even touch that area with anything right now. Does anyone know?
After the pooping debacle he got very tired again and passed out in his little cat tree that's near the sun-facing window. Every time he falls asleep I get worried, even if our other kitten is sleeping at the same time! The vet yesterday did say that he probably hasn't slept properly since he's been in hospital because it's always so loud there with all the animals and people around, and that his exhaustion is understandable. But I jump at every weird sign I get from him, trying to figure out how he's feeling.
Tomorrow afternoon the holistic vet is coming (from 2 hours away, very nice of her) to perform more acupuncture and check on him. She has also been communicating with the main vet who was seeing him at Vet 3 (who are very skeptical about his recovery - they all thought it was hopeless and still find it hard to believe me when I say he'd peed. I've been saving all the pee clumps and taking pictures.). I will ask her to bring the medicine to put him to sleep just in case he degrades tonight or tomorrow morning. I really hope we won't have to use it, but at this point we're not out of the woods and after today's vomiting-and-me-thinking-he-was-dying incident I would rather have the medicine there and available with a qualified veterinarian instead of having to rush him in the car to a hospital to die or having him dying in pain in the house.
These long stretches of not peeing (latest being 22 hours!) are terrifying. I can't stop looking at the clock wondering if he'll go. I also can't stop reading about the possible urethrostomy complications - like a stricture if the wound heals over the urethra, which I hear is not that rare. Now that the blockage/original stricture has been removed and he can actually urinate freely WHEN he can contract his bladder one of my greatest fears is that there will be another blockage and he'll keep trying to pee and not be able to.
He just ate again, I also gave him some lightly boiled chicken. He walked around the house a bit and then settled down on my jacket to clean himself and go back to sleep. It feels like my head is exploding - one second I think he's convulsing on the floor and the next he's peeing. I'm going to need a therapist after all this
.
We took him to the local emergency vet yesterday (which was also Vet 2 in our whole vet debacle), since I was very worried about him and was freaking out and because Vet 3 (the latest one) also wanted to get some official records that he was not in pain or suffering, and that his bladder wasn't about to burst. We took him and they did an ultrasound - the bladder was big, but the vet said for him "big" is "normal" (since he seems to have had a big bladder even before all this). She said it wasn't full to the point of bursting and still looked "wavy" instead of round and hard, and that he'd be ok at least for one night if not more. She did see blood there, which Vet 3 already knew about, and said it wasn't uncommon after all of his procedures (he is already on antibiotics for possible infection). She checked his anus because I thought it looked much more "loose" than normal, but said as long as he poops within the next couple of days it should be ok - they probably took his temperature a lot at Vet 3 which would make the sphincter tired, and he's likely still sore from the urethrostomy in that region as well.
This morning, about 7:15am. He tried to poop, but just a little came out and it was very hard. I could see him straining. He hadn't peed since 9:20am yesterday morning - that first time he peed on his own at our house was about 18 hours after they fully drained his bladder at the hospital. When I woke up it was 22. He was very tired and in the morning didn't even want to eat. I thought this must be it. I tried to feel the bladder, and I think I felt it. I tried to press gently to express it but no success - I'm on my own with no on else to hold him, he's big, and I was afraid to apply any real pressure as I was afraid of rupturing it.
I decided as a last ditch effort to try to put him in the box once again to see if he'd pee. He started convulsing in my arms. I was terrified that his bladder had ruptured, started dialing the taxi to take us to the nearest hospital so that he could be put to sleep there but afraid that he was having some sort of seizure and would die in pain on the floor.
He ended up throwing up several clumps of food and some liquid. The food smelled like what the vet had given him yesterday when I was giving him his medications (we were at the vet at the time the next dose was scheduled). I don't think he'd eaten it before. I was hoping that the new strange food just didn't sit well with him, but was afraid that this was a sign of something worse.
After throwing up he trotted downstairs. He seemed...ok. I gently put him in the litter box, still shaking and terrified. He dug around, sat there for what felt like forever, and peed! About the same amount as yesterday, I think, but it came out in shorter more frequent bursts I think because the litter didn't clump into one big clump this time but many smaller ones.
Then he trotted to the kitchen and ate some food, and then drank from the water fountain and bowl for the first time since I brought him home the night before last.
Afterwards he seemed a little more active, even bolted around the room with our other kitten a little. Problem - he was still constipated. The breeders suggested a remedy they use for their small kittens. They sell lots of food in pastes here and there is a kind of cheese from the North of the country that comes in one of these tubes. It is a sweet cheesy paste that they say is safe for cats in moderate amounts. They suggested I mix about 10cm of the paste with hot water and give it to him to loosen the stools.
I put the cone back on him while I ran out to the store for the first time in 3 days. I mixed up the paste as instructed - at first he wasn't into it and I fed it to him with a spoon, but then he grew to like the taste and ate the rest on his own. I think he really hates the cone - it's as if it takes him back to his hospital stay. When I put it on he curled up in the hallway and sat there all bunched up, and when I got back he was still in that same position, seemingly not having moved at all. When I took the cone off he got up and walked around.
Maybe 10-15 minutes later he went to the box again. I thought he was trying to pee again and was unable to, because he dug and dug but nothing came out (just like his previous peeing attempts). Then I tried placing him in our other box hoping he'd try again. He did. This time he sat there for a few minutes and when he came out there was poop there. BUT he couldn't get it all out and it was still coming out of him when he left. He was very uncomfortable and dragging poop along half-out. I took him and gently squeezed it out with a paper towel. I could tell it hurt him a bit, but was thinking it was better than having it lodged in him and also was afraid that if it came in contactwith the urethrostomy site it might introduce more bacteria.
At this time I also noticed the skin around the urethrostomy site bleeding. Maybe he strained so hard that he caused bleeding in that region. I was freaking out again. I called Vet 3 to ask them what to do - they said it SHOULD be ok as long as the bleeding stops and he doesn't seem distressed. It did seem to be stopping, and he wasn't trying to lick at it or anything and didn't seem distressed. so I've left it, but now there is some dark blood there at the skin and some around the opening to the urethra. I'm worried if it dries it might clump up and make hard for him to pee? I was thinking of gently patting it away with a warm moist towel but have no idea if it's safe to even touch that area with anything right now. Does anyone know?
After the pooping debacle he got very tired again and passed out in his little cat tree that's near the sun-facing window. Every time he falls asleep I get worried, even if our other kitten is sleeping at the same time! The vet yesterday did say that he probably hasn't slept properly since he's been in hospital because it's always so loud there with all the animals and people around, and that his exhaustion is understandable. But I jump at every weird sign I get from him, trying to figure out how he's feeling.
Tomorrow afternoon the holistic vet is coming (from 2 hours away, very nice of her) to perform more acupuncture and check on him. She has also been communicating with the main vet who was seeing him at Vet 3 (who are very skeptical about his recovery - they all thought it was hopeless and still find it hard to believe me when I say he'd peed. I've been saving all the pee clumps and taking pictures.). I will ask her to bring the medicine to put him to sleep just in case he degrades tonight or tomorrow morning. I really hope we won't have to use it, but at this point we're not out of the woods and after today's vomiting-and-me-thinking-he-was-dying incident I would rather have the medicine there and available with a qualified veterinarian instead of having to rush him in the car to a hospital to die or having him dying in pain in the house.
These long stretches of not peeing (latest being 22 hours!) are terrifying. I can't stop looking at the clock wondering if he'll go. I also can't stop reading about the possible urethrostomy complications - like a stricture if the wound heals over the urethra, which I hear is not that rare. Now that the blockage/original stricture has been removed and he can actually urinate freely WHEN he can contract his bladder one of my greatest fears is that there will be another blockage and he'll keep trying to pee and not be able to.
He just ate again, I also gave him some lightly boiled chicken. He walked around the house a bit and then settled down on my jacket to clean himself and go back to sleep. It feels like my head is exploding - one second I think he's convulsing on the floor and the next he's peeing. I'm going to need a therapist after all this
.Re: Expressing a large atonic bladder
How much does he weigh? Are you trying to express him with one hand or two? Did you get a chance to watch all the videos at the end of this article?
http://handicappedpet.net/helppets/view ... =5&t=16027
Have you looked up what clinics are in your area and called them to ask if they have any staff who are good at expressing a large male cat? It is a completely low tech procedure, it could be the most humble and modest clinic, but if they have one person who is good at expressing, that's all you need.
Have you considered keeping one or two litter boxes with the litter he was accustomed to in the past, rather than a mix? I know the other kitty is allergic but he has a bigger problem and liking his litterbox and feeling relaxed in it might help him a little.
http://handicappedpet.net/helppets/view ... =5&t=16027
Have you looked up what clinics are in your area and called them to ask if they have any staff who are good at expressing a large male cat? It is a completely low tech procedure, it could be the most humble and modest clinic, but if they have one person who is good at expressing, that's all you need.
Have you considered keeping one or two litter boxes with the litter he was accustomed to in the past, rather than a mix? I know the other kitty is allergic but he has a bigger problem and liking his litterbox and feeling relaxed in it might help him a little.
Re: Expressing a large atonic bladder
He weighs about 4.5kg (maybe a little less now since he lost some weight at the hospital).CarolC wrote:How much does he weigh? Are you trying to express him with one hand or two? Did you get a chance to watch all the videos at the end of this article?
http://handicappedpet.net/helppets/view ... =5&t=16027
Have you looked up what clinics are in your area and called them to ask if they have any staff who are good at expressing a large male cat? It is a completely low tech procedure, it could be the most humble and modest clinic, but if they have one person who is good at expressing, that's all you need.
Have you considered keeping one or two litter boxes with the litter he was accustomed to in the past, rather than a mix? I know the other kitty is allergic but he has a bigger problem and liking his litterbox and feeling relaxed in it might help him a little.
I did look up local clinics, and they all point me in the direction of the big hospitals for this, which he's already been to! I also think now that he's been to the big hospitals the small clinics are hesitant to deal with him because if the big hospitals can't fix him, they think they can't either. I tried with both one hand or two (by myself I've been needing to mostly scruff him with one hand and feel for the bladder with the other, as he is very wriggly.
He peed by himself again this morning, after about another 22 hours. There was quite a bit of pee before but this one was huge. He must've gotten a good bit of urine out of his bladder, if not all/most of it. However I also worry of this being a sign of kidney problems because he has been on Metacam for a month now and I've been reading horror stories. I am thinking about taking him to the local hospital (Vet 2) to get a blood sample and test for kidney damage, and ask if he can be on anything else at all. Whenever he takes it he gets tired and sometimes drools a little (of course I always give it with food). I would love to get him on some other pain killer/anti inflammatory.
The holistic vet is driving down today to perform acupuncture. She wants to slowly start weaning him off of his meds, but I am hesitant to do that now that he's finally starting to pee. I'd think it would be good to keep him on for at least a few more days - will consult with Vet 2 as well because the prescriptions are from them.
He is much more lively this morning after two days of sleeping. He's wrestling with the other kitten (I'm a bit worried since they're playing quite rough and she's stepped on his groin a couple of times, so I'm watching and separating them when they get too rowdy).
For the past two morning before he pees I'd "massage" his bladder a little. I'm not sure if that makes any difference - nothing actually comes out, but maybe 10-30 minutes after I did this he's gone to the litter box. This time he actually entered it by himself. It may just be a coincidence, maybe I just need to leave it alone.
I've put in all the remaining old litter into one of the boxes - unfortunately there wasn't enough left to fill the whole thing (they have very large boxes and love to dig, so the surface area coupled with their preferred volume requires a lot of litter). However he went into the box by himself this time so I hope he isn't put off by the new litter much if at all. He's not very picky it seems.
I'm not sure how it's going. I mean he's peeing, but things could go downhill at any time, I'm paranoid about the Metacam, and he is still very visibly healing from the urethrostomy. I caught myself falling asleep last night and waking up to find him licking the stitches. I am such a moron. I think I haven't slept for too long to trust myself to be able to stay awake anymore, so I've had to put the cone on. He gets so depressed with the big cone though, so I tried putting in his old smaller cone that he can still kind of poke his face through (the one he had after neutering surgery). He seems fine with this one. I'm not sure if it will keep him from being able to reach the stitches on his groin (watching carefully), but so far with the cone on he hasn't tried to lick. I think maybe he doesn't realize that the smaller cone may let him reach them and hasn't even tried.