My Gilbert is 14 german shep lab mix. He has been going to aqua therapy for almost three years because of very bad arthritis. He walks only with assistance, we use a k-9 support suit. He still eats, barks when he wants attention, insists on coming to bed with us up 2 flights of stairs which we must take him up. But over the last week I have seen a slight difference in his energy and he is not as interested in many things anymore. His water therapy is not going well, lots of stumbling. We ordered a cart from eddies wheels but I don't know if we are doing the right thing. I always thought I would KNOW when he was ready to leave, like he would tell me, but I am having very mixed emotions . I just want him to be comfortable and happy.
My therapy vet asked us, is he happy when you come home...answer is yes. does he eat...yes,
This is the hardest thing I have been through. I've had Gilbert since I was a senior in high school. I'm 32 years old! My husband is being a saint about everything and insists the $700 wheelchair will help things but I feel like he is kidding himself.
I would just like some advice or perhaps someone has a similar story. I feel so lost and sad.
Preparing for "the end", how will I know?
Re: Preparing for "the end", how will I know?
Think about the three things your dog most loved to do. Can he still do them? When he can't- all three- or maybe even two of the three- it may be time. Or when he is too uncomfortable to sleep, or stops eating, or starts going off to hide (dogs do this when they want to be left alone to die.)
I think right now I'd wait for the cart (assuming they've started building it and you can't get a refund) and see if it revitalizes him. Maybe getting out again will give him a new lease on life. But 14 is very senior, and he may just be winding down.
I have always known, though a few times after I decided it was time I have wished I hadn't waited so long. But I've never felt I did it too early. If you can keep him comfortable (don't worry about long-term effects of drugs, use them!) and happy, he may have a few more months left. Maybe more.. hard to say with some dogs.
The one thing I'd warn you about is not to find yourself just before a holiday or something without access to a vet.
Also, remember milestones like his birthday, holidays, etc, mean nothing to your dog. When he's ready, don't make him wait for one of your milestones.
I think right now I'd wait for the cart (assuming they've started building it and you can't get a refund) and see if it revitalizes him. Maybe getting out again will give him a new lease on life. But 14 is very senior, and he may just be winding down.
I have always known, though a few times after I decided it was time I have wished I hadn't waited so long. But I've never felt I did it too early. If you can keep him comfortable (don't worry about long-term effects of drugs, use them!) and happy, he may have a few more months left. Maybe more.. hard to say with some dogs.
The one thing I'd warn you about is not to find yourself just before a holiday or something without access to a vet.
Also, remember milestones like his birthday, holidays, etc, mean nothing to your dog. When he's ready, don't make him wait for one of your milestones.
Bobbie Mayer
"Corgis on Wheels: Understanding and Caring for the Special Needs of Corgis with Degenerative Myelopathy or DIsk Disease available now!
http://www.corgiaid.org/cart/corgisonwheels
"Corgis on Wheels: Understanding and Caring for the Special Needs of Corgis with Degenerative Myelopathy or DIsk Disease available now!
http://www.corgiaid.org/cart/corgisonwheels
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GilbertsMom
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:21 pm
Re: Preparing for "the end", how will I know?
Thanks for the thoughtful reply Bobby.
Re: Preparing for "the end", how will I know?
Since he is a GSD mix it is quite possible he has DM.. the stumbling may be due to that and not arthritis, in which case it isn't painful. If that's the case the cart may make a big difference. There is a DNA test you can do for DM... https://secure.offa.org/cart.html It costs $65 and is basically just a cheek swab you send in. DM is something like ALS in humans (Lou Gehrig's disease). It affects Shepherds, corgis, boxers, poodles, Rhodesian Ridgebacks, Chesapeake Bay retrievers, and Kerry Blue terriers (at least.) As a mix it is hard to say whether he might get it, it's a recessive gene, but who knows what the other half is, or whether that breed can carry the trait.
Make sure when you get the cart you take pictures of him in it and send them back to Eddie's so they can make sure it fits right. That's very important as if you try to get a dog to use a cart that is wrong for him you can turn him off ever using one at all.
Make sure when you get the cart you take pictures of him in it and send them back to Eddie's so they can make sure it fits right. That's very important as if you try to get a dog to use a cart that is wrong for him you can turn him off ever using one at all.
Bobbie Mayer
"Corgis on Wheels: Understanding and Caring for the Special Needs of Corgis with Degenerative Myelopathy or DIsk Disease available now!
http://www.corgiaid.org/cart/corgisonwheels
"Corgis on Wheels: Understanding and Caring for the Special Needs of Corgis with Degenerative Myelopathy or DIsk Disease available now!
http://www.corgiaid.org/cart/corgisonwheels
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GilbertsMom
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:21 pm
Re: Preparing for "the end", how will I know?
OK Bobby, I will def take the pics. The rehab place is going to be fitting him with the cart, I had it shipped there since they know what they are doing.
We got the one with the training wheels in front so he won't have to completely bare all the weight on his front legs, because as of a few days ago, he just can't do it anymore.
Can I ask you about what you said before, when you had wished you hadn't waited so long to put one of your dogs down, what type of situation was it? If you don't mind me asking?
That is what I am afraid of, keeping him around longer than I should, longer than he wants.
The rehab tech suggested a pet communicator but I don't know about that because everyone brings their own biases to any given situation and how can an animal communicator NOT be bias??? I don't know that I believe in that.
We got the one with the training wheels in front so he won't have to completely bare all the weight on his front legs, because as of a few days ago, he just can't do it anymore.
Can I ask you about what you said before, when you had wished you hadn't waited so long to put one of your dogs down, what type of situation was it? If you don't mind me asking?
That is what I am afraid of, keeping him around longer than I should, longer than he wants.
The rehab tech suggested a pet communicator but I don't know about that because everyone brings their own biases to any given situation and how can an animal communicator NOT be bias??? I don't know that I believe in that.
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GabrielDeafBlindPupFamily
- Posts: 5011
- Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2003 7:00 pm
- Location: St. Helena Island, SC
Re: Preparing for "the end", how will I know?
This is the hardest question in the universe, and maybe Possum can help us navigate. She totally disconnected. She lay growling with her teeth bared and ears back most of the time. She got no joy from life, although physically she was 'healthy'. She had so many issues, both emotional, psychological and yes, physical, that, being young, we thought we could overcome. And we tried for a year and a half. When she finally disconnected from humans, and got no joy, I knew it was time.
St.Jude, I kept alive 7 years past his put down date. 7 GLORIOUS years. Words cannot describe what he endured in life, and I had promised him he would never hurt as he had in the beginning of his life. He was ready. Normally, fear based aggression, he welcomed the doc into our home with a wag of a broken tail. He was ready. He hurt so much for so long, and he lost his smile. When they lose their smile, when it is irreversible, when they have no joy.
Sounds like your precious boy still has some joy in life.
We as humans make more out of things than our dogs do. We overthink. Dogs get right to the point. What is important? MOM, DAD, LOVE. If he still has joy, don't rush into anything, because he'll let you know.
Your Gilbert can wait. You don't have to rush. I tell you this because your decision is irreversible. Once he crosses that bridge, the hole is gigantic. So take your time, weigh his joy, happiness and blow up everysingle moment of your lives into something HUGE. Love, live and take advantage of his slowing down. Lay next to him, whispering, singing, and loving. This IS the most precious time. Precious puppyhood is delightful, adulthood completes you, but when they come to their Gloaming Hour, everything becomes brighter, clearer, things unimportant fade away.
I am going to copy what my cousin wrote about the Gloaming Hour on our LW website, under Our Golden Years tab:
http://www.magicalworldoflethalwhites.f ... talog.html
She wrote this in GABRIEL'S words. She is his HANDS.
'The Golden Years'
'The Prime of Life'
'The Gloaming Hour'
Whatever we call it, it's something we'll see if ever we live that long! Sure, we all start out as pups, but eventually we're going to get older, and older, until one day we'll enter into our own personal 'GLOAMING HOUR'.
Our Gaelic pals across the ocean speak often of 'the Gloaming': that last hour before the sun sets when the earth's tapestry magically changes right before our eyes. If you haven't ever paid attention to that mystical time of evening, you should. I hear it's something to be appreciated.
It's one of Ambrr's favorite times of the day. She tells me that the colors change suddenly...producing colors unnoticed during the sunlit hours. Blades of grass or leaves on distant trees take on a whole new look. She says the golds and yellows and greens and blues all of a sudden come in different shades and become all the more vivid...as if gracing us with one last chance to appreciate their beauty.
That's 'the Gloaming Hour'.
Perhaps as we enter into our own 'Gloaming', the same is true. Perhaps then everything becomes all the more vivid and beautiful and priceless. As if, for one last time, we're awarded the chance to truly appreciate all that otherwise has gone unnoticed.
That's what the Gaelic peoples say and that's what Ambrr believes.
Maybe they're onto something here.
I know...it's something we all KNOW will come around, yet we're always shocked to see it when it gets here. Humans aren't any different - believe me. Listen to them. They think they're going to stay young forever! It's not until we all, humans and animals, experience 'the gloaming' that we learn the truth of life. So I guess we might just as well admit it...we have more in common with these Humans than we may wish to admit in public!
Now, we all know dogs younger than us. We all know dogs older than us. Right now we're going to talk about the older ones...the ones who are near or have reached their Prime of Life. Unfortunately, during this time of life's cycle, there may be some un-pleasantries to put up with. That's the purpose for this page...to learn what might be in store for us...in our GOLDEN YEARS!
There are some things we all should understand about aging. One thing is that our bodies get a little tired as the years pass. It seems that overnight, they start acting as if they have a mind all their own and won't cooperate with what we want them to do. It can be frustrating. It can be frightening. That's why we need to study this process and how if effects our lives BEFORE we're actually there!
The first thing most dogs notice is that they start slowing down a bit. Everything slows down...getting up...lying down...walking...climbing steps...eating...pretty much everything but sleeping! Sleeping seems to come a little quicker and a whole lot easier!
There might be other reasons for 'slowing down'. Don't just assume that it's the aging process making YOU slow a bit. Get to your Vet and see if there's something else causing the problem. You might just be surprised to know that you're not aging at all...you might just have a 'bug' that needs some attention!
Ahh....these 'Golden Years'...this 'Prime of Life'...
This time...'our Gloaming'....
It's not something to fear.
But it's certainly something to prepare for the right way
We do tend to overthink and secondguess ourselves. Follow his lead. When he loses his smile, when he is no longer happy to see you, you'll want to weigh his quality. WELCOME!
St.Jude, I kept alive 7 years past his put down date. 7 GLORIOUS years. Words cannot describe what he endured in life, and I had promised him he would never hurt as he had in the beginning of his life. He was ready. Normally, fear based aggression, he welcomed the doc into our home with a wag of a broken tail. He was ready. He hurt so much for so long, and he lost his smile. When they lose their smile, when it is irreversible, when they have no joy.
Sounds like your precious boy still has some joy in life.
We as humans make more out of things than our dogs do. We overthink. Dogs get right to the point. What is important? MOM, DAD, LOVE. If he still has joy, don't rush into anything, because he'll let you know.
Your Gilbert can wait. You don't have to rush. I tell you this because your decision is irreversible. Once he crosses that bridge, the hole is gigantic. So take your time, weigh his joy, happiness and blow up everysingle moment of your lives into something HUGE. Love, live and take advantage of his slowing down. Lay next to him, whispering, singing, and loving. This IS the most precious time. Precious puppyhood is delightful, adulthood completes you, but when they come to their Gloaming Hour, everything becomes brighter, clearer, things unimportant fade away.
I am going to copy what my cousin wrote about the Gloaming Hour on our LW website, under Our Golden Years tab:
http://www.magicalworldoflethalwhites.f ... talog.html
She wrote this in GABRIEL'S words. She is his HANDS.
'The Golden Years'
'The Prime of Life'
'The Gloaming Hour'
Whatever we call it, it's something we'll see if ever we live that long! Sure, we all start out as pups, but eventually we're going to get older, and older, until one day we'll enter into our own personal 'GLOAMING HOUR'.
Our Gaelic pals across the ocean speak often of 'the Gloaming': that last hour before the sun sets when the earth's tapestry magically changes right before our eyes. If you haven't ever paid attention to that mystical time of evening, you should. I hear it's something to be appreciated.
It's one of Ambrr's favorite times of the day. She tells me that the colors change suddenly...producing colors unnoticed during the sunlit hours. Blades of grass or leaves on distant trees take on a whole new look. She says the golds and yellows and greens and blues all of a sudden come in different shades and become all the more vivid...as if gracing us with one last chance to appreciate their beauty.
That's 'the Gloaming Hour'.
Perhaps as we enter into our own 'Gloaming', the same is true. Perhaps then everything becomes all the more vivid and beautiful and priceless. As if, for one last time, we're awarded the chance to truly appreciate all that otherwise has gone unnoticed.
That's what the Gaelic peoples say and that's what Ambrr believes.
Maybe they're onto something here.
I know...it's something we all KNOW will come around, yet we're always shocked to see it when it gets here. Humans aren't any different - believe me. Listen to them. They think they're going to stay young forever! It's not until we all, humans and animals, experience 'the gloaming' that we learn the truth of life. So I guess we might just as well admit it...we have more in common with these Humans than we may wish to admit in public!
Now, we all know dogs younger than us. We all know dogs older than us. Right now we're going to talk about the older ones...the ones who are near or have reached their Prime of Life. Unfortunately, during this time of life's cycle, there may be some un-pleasantries to put up with. That's the purpose for this page...to learn what might be in store for us...in our GOLDEN YEARS!
There are some things we all should understand about aging. One thing is that our bodies get a little tired as the years pass. It seems that overnight, they start acting as if they have a mind all their own and won't cooperate with what we want them to do. It can be frustrating. It can be frightening. That's why we need to study this process and how if effects our lives BEFORE we're actually there!
The first thing most dogs notice is that they start slowing down a bit. Everything slows down...getting up...lying down...walking...climbing steps...eating...pretty much everything but sleeping! Sleeping seems to come a little quicker and a whole lot easier!
There might be other reasons for 'slowing down'. Don't just assume that it's the aging process making YOU slow a bit. Get to your Vet and see if there's something else causing the problem. You might just be surprised to know that you're not aging at all...you might just have a 'bug' that needs some attention!
Ahh....these 'Golden Years'...this 'Prime of Life'...
This time...'our Gloaming'....
It's not something to fear.
But it's certainly something to prepare for the right way
We do tend to overthink and secondguess ourselves. Follow his lead. When he loses his smile, when he is no longer happy to see you, you'll want to weigh his quality. WELCOME!
Karen, Andy's ^i^ mom
Lethal White Aussies Rule!
INTERACTIVE RESCUE SITE!
http://www.s8.createphpbb.com/lethalwhiteauss/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LethalWhiteAussieRescue/
Lethal White Aussies Rule!
INTERACTIVE RESCUE SITE!
http://www.s8.createphpbb.com/lethalwhiteauss/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LethalWhiteAussieRescue/
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GilbertsMom
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:21 pm
Re: Preparing for "the end", how will I know?
THANK YOU SO MUCH KAREN. I was just snuggling him on the floor and he was loving every second of it! I'm moving a mattress downstairs too.
Re: Preparing for "the end", how will I know?
In one case the problem was a specialty vet (a quack if you ask me now) said he was fine and would do okay for the weekend (4th of July.) He wasn't, and he got much sicker and was dying, and I ended up having to drive an hour to find a vet open on the 4th for emergencies. That time I wished I'd gone with my gut and said, he isn't fine, and I don't want to put him through any more.GilbertsMom wrote: Can I ask you about what you said before, when you had wished you hadn't waited so long to put one of your dogs down, what type of situation was it? If you don't mind me asking?
That is what I am afraid of, keeping him around longer than I should, longer than he wants.
In the other case, I'm still not sure. My dog had a really bad spell and I thought it was the end, and then she revived and had another good few weeks. But now I wonder how hard the bad week or two was on her, and if I just should have let her go then. In the long run it made no difference to me as I lost her anyway, and I hope I didn't make her suffer just to give myself a few more days.
It can be hard to know, especially when they go down very slowly. But when they don't want to be with you anymore is a definite sign, or when they do not want to eat, or stop showing interest in life. The other thing is if they are in a lot of pain and it isn't going to get better. And sometimes you have to consider whether the pain they are in is worth a few more days, even if they do get better.
A friend of mine just went through this with a German shepherd mix. He had cancer, and arthritis, and at the end she was helping him walk with the use of two slings, but he would still go out into the yard and sniff and try to romp a little and enjoy himself. She let him go when he just couldn't stay on his feet, even with her help, and didn't want to try anymore.
The thing to remember is that whenever you let your dog go is going to be hard for you- no way around that- so you try to time it so that it is easiest for him.
Bobbie Mayer
"Corgis on Wheels: Understanding and Caring for the Special Needs of Corgis with Degenerative Myelopathy or DIsk Disease available now!
http://www.corgiaid.org/cart/corgisonwheels
"Corgis on Wheels: Understanding and Caring for the Special Needs of Corgis with Degenerative Myelopathy or DIsk Disease available now!
http://www.corgiaid.org/cart/corgisonwheels
Re: Preparing for "the end", how will I know?
Dear Gilbert's mom,
I work with many hospice animals and this is one of the primary questions I get from their people. Usually you do know when it's time. If you are unsure it probably isn't yet. Many older animals have a lot of ups and downs and it is when the downs happen without the ups or they are in constant pain or not wanting to eat or connect with us that it is usually time to let them go. It is always a hard decision but it's important to make sure you are both ready before letting go. It sounds like Gilbert still has a lot of life in him.
If you haven't tried acupuncture for him that would also be something to try. I've been able to get many dogs make on their feet with it especially combined with the hydrotherapy. www.ivas.org will offer referrals in your area.
I have also sent many of my clients to animal communicators and we usually both find it very helpful. A good communicator will not push you to a decision but will help you work with needs your animal may have and help with letting go if it is time. I have had people go to bad communicators so be very careful who you go to. Mary Getten http://www.marygetten.com/ and Rose DeDan http://www.reikishamanic.com/ are both good and will do distant work although I always prefer to use someone close by if possible.
I hope the wheelchairs helps. Gilbert is lucky to have your care and love.
lena mccullough, dvm
www.pathwithpaws.com
I work with many hospice animals and this is one of the primary questions I get from their people. Usually you do know when it's time. If you are unsure it probably isn't yet. Many older animals have a lot of ups and downs and it is when the downs happen without the ups or they are in constant pain or not wanting to eat or connect with us that it is usually time to let them go. It is always a hard decision but it's important to make sure you are both ready before letting go. It sounds like Gilbert still has a lot of life in him.
If you haven't tried acupuncture for him that would also be something to try. I've been able to get many dogs make on their feet with it especially combined with the hydrotherapy. www.ivas.org will offer referrals in your area.
I have also sent many of my clients to animal communicators and we usually both find it very helpful. A good communicator will not push you to a decision but will help you work with needs your animal may have and help with letting go if it is time. I have had people go to bad communicators so be very careful who you go to. Mary Getten http://www.marygetten.com/ and Rose DeDan http://www.reikishamanic.com/ are both good and will do distant work although I always prefer to use someone close by if possible.
I hope the wheelchairs helps. Gilbert is lucky to have your care and love.
lena mccullough, dvm
www.pathwithpaws.com
Re: Preparing for "the end", how will I know?
Hi there,
I really feel for you as I was asking this same exact question a little over a month ago. We let our beloved Golden Retriever, Angelo go on 1-5-09...he was almost 14 years old. He was my first dog, my heart dog and a one and million. He was stubborn, stoic and a fighter right up until the end.
There are so many different theories and opinions on "when is the right time". Quality of life means different things to different people. EVERYONE SAID I WOULD KNOW when it was time...but to be totally honest with you...I never did. My Angelo was NOT going to tell me...he LOVED me more than anything and would have NEVER shown me it was time.
The best advise that I received out of hundreds of e-mails was that it's better to do it a week too soon than an hour too late. My dog most likely had DM, but also had hip dysplasia, spondylosis, and arthritis. We joined Handicapped Pets in March 2008 and little by little...his body failed him.
He had no bowel control for a long time. His back legs got worse until the last 2 weeks he was unable to get up on his own at all. I would lay awake all night and wait for him to want to be flipped over. We would do our best to get him outside in ice and snow so he could urinate. He barked and barked and barked for me to be near him 24 hours a day. He NEVER missed a meal a day in his life and woke up EVERY day like it was a celebration. But it got to the point where it was so frustrating for him and he was just living for ME because he loved ME and wanted to be near ME.
He had a GREAT day the day before, and my second guessing began. But he went out on a good note. We did not have to race him to a strange Vet in the middle of the night. We were able to bring him to his favorite Animal Hospital, to see his favorite Vet that had been caring for him since he was a puppy, and his favorite Vet Tech gave him his favorite treats right before he left for the Bridge. He stayed true to himself and barked and struggled out of my hold right up until the end. When it was over, he was at peace in my arms.
He has not visited me yet...I don't think I am ready yet but he has visited my boyfriend this past Sunday. He heard a dog RUN into the room and when he looked no one was there...Archie was fast asleep on the couch. So the good news is...Angelo is fine and his legs work now!!!!!!!
There is no right answer to your question, I wish there was. But we make the best decision for our pets because they don't have a voice. It will be ok, your dog will be ok, and you will be ok. I promise.
My heart goes out to you, and I send you many many hugs.
Jeanne in NJ
Archie
Angelo photo of him taken 1-4-09 (4-12-95 == 1-5-09)
I really feel for you as I was asking this same exact question a little over a month ago. We let our beloved Golden Retriever, Angelo go on 1-5-09...he was almost 14 years old. He was my first dog, my heart dog and a one and million. He was stubborn, stoic and a fighter right up until the end.
There are so many different theories and opinions on "when is the right time". Quality of life means different things to different people. EVERYONE SAID I WOULD KNOW when it was time...but to be totally honest with you...I never did. My Angelo was NOT going to tell me...he LOVED me more than anything and would have NEVER shown me it was time.
The best advise that I received out of hundreds of e-mails was that it's better to do it a week too soon than an hour too late. My dog most likely had DM, but also had hip dysplasia, spondylosis, and arthritis. We joined Handicapped Pets in March 2008 and little by little...his body failed him.
He had no bowel control for a long time. His back legs got worse until the last 2 weeks he was unable to get up on his own at all. I would lay awake all night and wait for him to want to be flipped over. We would do our best to get him outside in ice and snow so he could urinate. He barked and barked and barked for me to be near him 24 hours a day. He NEVER missed a meal a day in his life and woke up EVERY day like it was a celebration. But it got to the point where it was so frustrating for him and he was just living for ME because he loved ME and wanted to be near ME.
He had a GREAT day the day before, and my second guessing began. But he went out on a good note. We did not have to race him to a strange Vet in the middle of the night. We were able to bring him to his favorite Animal Hospital, to see his favorite Vet that had been caring for him since he was a puppy, and his favorite Vet Tech gave him his favorite treats right before he left for the Bridge. He stayed true to himself and barked and struggled out of my hold right up until the end. When it was over, he was at peace in my arms.
He has not visited me yet...I don't think I am ready yet but he has visited my boyfriend this past Sunday. He heard a dog RUN into the room and when he looked no one was there...Archie was fast asleep on the couch. So the good news is...Angelo is fine and his legs work now!!!!!!!
There is no right answer to your question, I wish there was. But we make the best decision for our pets because they don't have a voice. It will be ok, your dog will be ok, and you will be ok. I promise.
My heart goes out to you, and I send you many many hugs.
Jeanne in NJ
Archie
Angelo photo of him taken 1-4-09 (4-12-95 == 1-5-09)
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