Probiotics?

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CutNGlass
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Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:54 am

Probiotics?

Post by CutNGlass »

I had not had probiotics for any of our dogs until recently -- any pros/cons to different ones?

We have a Great Pyrenees (rescued) which has had gastrointestinal problems on/off since well before we got him -- mostly we thought from his licking the goat poop off of his feet! He had such a poor appetite when we first got him(heartworm treatment). It took so much coaxing and praise to get him to eat -- often mixing in bits of roast chicken with the dry food. We also realized that he was having trouble swallowing (from old injury to his throat from neck growing into collar as a puppy). We began wetting food, and he was able to eat better. Last year his diarrhea returned, and he didn't want to eat -- again! We switched to cooked chicken/rice. Then after a course of antibiotics, our vet suggested a "course of probiotics" (proviable-kp brand) to replace the "good bacteria" which the antibiotics destroy. At that time the vet explained how much better this particular "probiotic" was, since it contains several different strains of (probiotic) beneficial bacteria. Andy made such a quick turn-around, that we could barely believe it. There was a large tube that looks like a syringe with a dial on the plunger end which adjusts how much is dispensed at one time (mixed the goo into his food) -- that was followed by a couple of weeks of probiotic capsules which we sprinkled on his foods. We just continued to "cook" for Andy, and fed our other two dogs the same. Switching off to beef burgers eventually--based mainly on beef or chicken, with rice/or oatmeal, along with peas, greens, pumpkin, and powdered vitamins.

He was fine for nearly a year. This time what we received was NOT the same thing at all (single strain of probiotic) as well as metronidazole. The probiotic came in a packet as a powder. Andy wouldn't eat food with it in it, and since it was powder, I couldn't even give it to him like a pill. Very annoyed, didn't help, and cost more! I found something similar to last year's probiotic syringe goop at a local "farm supply store" which was made for equine use, with almost same strains (probios brand) -- I still had the original (empty) tube from before stuck down in the box of grooming supplies. His poop is nearly normal, and I just realized that we haven't been adding in the pumpkin (which we had been adding in a little last year, if his stool wasn't firm).

Anyone out there found using probiotics long-term useful for GI issues for their dogs?
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CarolC
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Re: Probiotics?

Post by CarolC »

Not much help here, I'm afraid. My vet gave my dog a pineapple supplement (I think it was) for senior tummy issues. I do not remember the brand, it was several years ago. It seems like it came in packets and I was supposed to sprinkle it on the food. We didn't stick with it very long. Strangely, after she had a dental extraction her tummy improved.

I wonder if you could find the good goop online. Did you try http://www.kvsupply.com?

:banner:
sheri m
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Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 7:00 pm

Re: Probiotics?

Post by sheri m »

Pete was on probiotics and digestive enzymes for years. Found for the most part Dr. Mercolas animal based enzymes worked and did not break the bank. Were able to cut out probiotics. Digestive enzymes were powder sprinkled on food. We just ordered on line. It was amazing the difference in stools and yes pumpkin is wonderful as it is easy to digest.
CutNGlass
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Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:54 am

Re: Probiotics?

Post by CutNGlass »

In addition to the probiotics, we have just made a fairly simple change to food preparation, and have already seen an improvement. I got the idea from a post I saw last week, mentioning need to make sure that rice was well-cooked, since dogs do not chew their food. The article recommended adding extra water and cooking rice until it had opened up and was easier to digest, so I changed the preparation of the rice portion of their food. Since I use a rice cooker to cook the brown rice, and adding extra water makes a big puddle of gooey water outside the rice cooker, I began double-cooking the rice. Basically, after finished in rice cooker, I transfer to a pyrex bowl, and top up with water again, and then cook additional time in microwave. In a hurry, I then used a hand-held stick blender (chopping blade) to chop up the rice.

This has made a huge difference in their stool! Plus it is far easier for Andy (the one with trouble swallowing) to eat!

I have added canned pumpkin to my shopping list for this week. I had just about forgotten about that, as we had not been adding it on a regular basis. The one with normal stool, gets very hard poop, if we add more than a small amount of pumpkin. We are tweaking our basic food preparation to each of the dog's needs.

We had also changed from the cheaper burger to the leanest we could get, as we know that the burgers we previously had been using changed somewhat over the course of the last two years. Instead of cooking separate burgers on the grill, we make a meatlof -- sans "people seasoning". Since we hand-mix in the egg/oatmeal when we make the burger loaf, we no longer get an awful coating of grease all over our hands when we mix the meatloaf.

With all of the other changes which we have implemented over the last couple of weeks, we are not certain which of the changes have helped the most; however, we still feel it is worth the extra time/money to prepare fresh food, rather than go with pre-made.

I had not realized that Dr. Mercola carried pet products. I had only looked into his site for vitamin k for myself. I will look into other digestive enzymes, once we get the basic preparation fine-tuned. I know that I need to do better research on vitamin supplements for them, but that belongs in a whole other thread.

Thanks for all of your input!
CutNGlass
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Re: Probiotics?

Post by CutNGlass »

Followup: I'm happy to say that we found a "real solution" to what was causing the diarrhea in two of our dogs: Impacted anal glands! Neither dog "scooted" or wanted to lick their fannies, etc. What we thought was either mucous or parasites was actually what I call "anal gland goo".

Results of anal gland "expressing" on stopping the diarrhea was immediate! Strangely the one with the worst diarrhea problem did not have the worst anal gland "problem". At first we began taking them back every 2 weeks, then every 3 weeks, then one of them still every 3-4 weeks. We made regular appointments, but if the diarrhea recurred, we'd go back in for tech to drain them. So now we are only needing 5-6 weeks between trips.

This was so surprising to me. I had never realized that this was even something to consider. We actually found out because we changed vets, because our previous vet's staff kept trying to push us into buying food from them.

I will say that the food changes, and probiotics improved all of our pet's health so much, that we are certainly continuing with it. Even the one with no real health issues is showing a much thicker shiny healthy-looking coat. I'm including "recipe" for our doggy "meat loaf" below. Note: We found that keeping 1 chunk of the doggy loaf in fridge was very useful. After cold, it is easy to cut into bite-sized cubes which can be used for making a medicine pocket, or as very healthy training treats. If you've ever had to coax a sick dog who no appetite into taking medicine, then you should find these yummy alternatives handy. We do find that giving a couple of non-medicine treats first will help them then take the medicine ones afterwards. I absolutely hate being the one having to give pills with the hand-down-the-throat method to a dog who won't take it any other way. We tried so many different "pill pouches" -- these were the best! Fortunately, I had not had to use them since October.

I will share the basic "recipe" we use for the food:
() doggy meat-loaf chunks (see below) warmed back up in large pyrex mixing bowl water covering it.
() 1 cup brown rice per medium dog, covered with extra water and soak for 15-20 min.
() canned pumpkin (approx 1/3 cup added for large dog, 1/6 cup each for medium dogs)
() powdered vitamins -- check with your vet for recommendations for your particular dog. (or give separate vitamin tablets if your dog will eat them)
() all above items added into large pyrex mixing bowl and using a hand blender whir it to smooth. We started out mashing it with large mixing fork, but found the other to be faster.

Doggy "meat-loaf" Prep: In huge mixing bowl, smoosh by hand:
4.5-5 lb package of 90% lean ground beef: 1/2 of package
7-9 eggs, cracked
approx 4 cups instant oatmeal
approx 2 cups canned peas including liquid
also add variety of misc extra vegetables which we set aside from our meal prep
put in 2 greased bread loaf pans
either bake medium oven or microwave until done adding water around outside edges as needed to keep it moist
We cook ours in a microwave which really needs to be replaced -- it takes two fifteen minute sessions -- but it also takes 4.5 minutes to boil water in same microwave.

The whole package of meat makes 4 large loaves, which we split into 16 chunks (we freeze extra). I wrap each chunk in left-over plastic (save plastic pouches dried beans, or rice) or parchment or wax paper. You just don't want them to freeze together. Put into separate large zip-lock bags in freezer. Each chunk is enough for use meal of either 1 large dog or 2 medium dogs. We cook the brown rice in a rice cooker. Same rice I eat, and only have to cook it every couple of days.

I will point out that we began using the "doggy loaf" as a way to get Andy (Great Pyrenees) to eat enough to gain back weight he had lost. Since he had trouble swallowing (see previous post), we whir his up smooth, so that he can swallow it easily.

In four months he gained 15 pounds and was bouncy and playful, an full of energy for the last few months. If he was stiff from laying for a while it still took him a while to get his back legs up under him and stand, however he was playing with his "jolly ball" swinging it back and forth after walks. We actually had to get another one for Olive, since he wanted to play with it again.

Unfortunately, Andy passed away a few weeks ago after wanting to sleep most of the afternoon. That wasn't unusual for him, as he usually stays alert on "guard duty" throughout the night, and he had stayed up the night before with me while I was working all night. However, he wasn't interested in eating -- which with new food was unusual. It was late afternoon, and we made an appointment with vet to see him next morning. However, we ended up taking him to emergency vet that night after he began panting -- seems he had a "mass" on his spleen which had ruptured. It was rather a shock losing him so suddenly; however we have always said that we don't want to have another dog go through months of suffering.

The last paragraph was so hard to write, that I nearly stopped altogether. I hope that this helps someone else as much as it has helped us.

Mary
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CarolC
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Re: Probiotics?

Post by CarolC »

I am sorry for your sudden loss of Andy. That was so unexpected. They say dogs can hide illness, and I guess this was missed by two vets. I was reading about masses on the spleen and this article describes exactly what you are talking about. The article says a mass on the spleen can cause inappetance, however there are so many common things that can also affect the appetite. It sounds like he had a history of special needs. He was lucky to have someone like you who would really focus on him and find solutions for him. What a difference it must have been for him after he was adopted by you. :wub: I'll bet he felt the difference every day he was with you. I am sorry he could not be with you longer.

https://www.acvs.org/small-animal/splenic-masses
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