Please help new to this Skipper my dog is lame both back legs

Neurological Disorders Resources. Treatment and care for pets having pain or trouble walking or standing due to spinal injuries or neurological disorders like IVDD, FCE and DM.
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critters
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Re: Please help new to this Skipper my dog is lame both back legs

Post by critters » Tue May 07, 2019 8:42 am

Don't let him be "club footed" for too long. My Koi Boy came that way, after having been shot in the spine, and his foot contracted that way permanently. We tried surgery and everything to release it, but it was too late. We ended up having to have custom splints and shoes made to accommodate his foot because we couldn't fix it. It also makes sores when they're walking on the top, and the sores can be very hard to heal.

kandykane
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Re: Please help new to this Skipper my dog is lame both back legs

Post by kandykane » Wed May 08, 2019 9:30 pm

Sorry to hear about you Koi boy, so many jerks out there, never will understand how people can harm any animal

You think I should splint it while he is in super grounded mode
was rereading my posts, didn't type what I meant to say about the pinch test
left foot is better than right, left is slow, slow reaction - right side super super slow slow reaction
have been putting lotion on his paws the last few days as the rear ones seem dry

we was out to do his pee and poop time last night and ran into ants, poor Skipper got bit by his ding dong before I could get them off him so putting benadyl around the area, that's what I hate about the rain when we get alot ants are on the move, so another lesson learned got to go out and inspect the area where we do his last call of the night

Was giving Skipper his massage a little bit ago and still really sensitive on his right side, so I quit when he lets me know not to do it, he has the look and I know he means not there please it hurts, give him his treat and then read to him a little bit or turn on his song

Funny last night, first time i heard him snore in a long time, felt good, he was comfy and laid out, cute little snore he has and before he goes to bed I have and will always say to Skipper
Your my big boy you so smart and handsome and you sooo good looking too, I Love you sleep well

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Re: Please help new to this Skipper my dog is lame both back legs

Post by CarolC » Thu May 09, 2019 11:10 am

kandykane wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 9:30 pm
Sorry to hear about you Koi boy, so many jerks out there, never will understand how people can harm any animal

You think I should splint it while he is in super grounded mode
was rereading my posts, didn't type what I meant to say about the pinch test
left foot is better than right, left is slow, slow reaction - right side super super slow slow reaction
have been putting lotion on his paws the last few days as the rear ones seem dry

Critters has more experience with this. My two cents would be, if he isn't curling it under while he's resting, but he only sometimes walks on the top of his foot when you take him out to potty because he isn't picking up his feet high enough so he drags his toes and flips his foot, then I don't think you would need to splint during rest. If he's staring to curl during resting, that would be different. Do his legs feel tight when you massage him? Critters will know more about it.

we was out to do his pee and poop time last night and ran into ants, poor Skipper got bit by his ding dong before I could get them off him so putting benadyl around the area, that's what I hate about the rain when we get alot ants are on the move, so another lesson learned got to go out and inspect the area where we do his last call of the night

I remember Old Dog was sometimes uneasy lying out in the yard, and I always thought ants was what he worried about. The other thing to watch for is stickers. If a dog is only bearing weight on 2 front feet and you are walking him and he steps on a sticker, he can't really lift that paw off the ground like a 4-legged dog would do. He'll probably just stop and freeze and not take another step and you'll see the look on his face that says, "I'm standing here with a sticker in my paw and I can't lift my foot!" You'll know it the second it happens. Then you have to either pick him up if he's small or let his hindquarters down into a sit if he's big, so he can get the weight off the sticker paw. I don't dare let stickers get started in the yard. They sometimes try to start in the front yard (I assume passing animals bring them in) and I have to be careful that they don't get in the underside of the mower and I take them to the back yard. Fortunately the ones here are easy to recognize if one starts up by the curb.

You mentioned something about thinking you shouldn't have played ball with him or not as actively or something, because he was getting older. I was thinking, well maybe, but I've wondered a number of times if there was also something in his new environment that kind of set him up for it, and playing ball just finally added to the injury that was already beginning. Like, I don't know if he had 4 steps from the back door where you were living before. Old Dog used to skip the steps and just jump off the porch. Or maybe he jumps off the bed or furniture and it's higher at this house. Or maybe you had carpet at your house but your sister has bare floors so he isn't landing as well when he jumps off the sofa or something like that. I also sometimes wonder if tension in a new environment could have anything to do with it, because at affects you physically. I always wondered that about Dianne's dog, who went down right after they moved. What was it in the new environment that might have set him up for it. Maybe nothing, maybe it was just coincidence, I don't know. But I'm not sure you should blame playing ball, or at least that might have only been one factor in what was going on, I totally don't know.

Was giving Skipper his massage a little bit ago and still really sensitive on his right side, so I quit when he lets me know not to do it, he has the look and I know he means not there please it hurts, give him his treat and then read to him a little bit or turn on his song
Have the muscle spasms stopped?

Funny last night, first time i heard him snore in a long time, felt good, he was comfy and laid out, cute little snore he has and before he goes to bed I have and will always say to Skipper
Your my big boy you so smart and handsome and you sooo good looking too, I Love you sleep well
He's a lucky dog. Every pet should be so lucky. :angel:
P.S. I got a swimsuit, now just need to find a place that doesn't cost too much, still looking. There is one opening in June that may work, will see.

kandykane
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Re: Please help new to this Skipper my dog is lame both back legs

Post by kandykane » Thu May 09, 2019 9:03 pm

No he doesn't curl it while resting often only seen it a couple times, but maybe it was just the way he was laying will keep a lookout though for it

Skipper has had a couple of stickers in his paws over the years and he would lift his paw and give me a look and let me know, No stickers around here, I did pull a bunch of them from the back yard when I got here roots and all garbage bagged and off to dump so no stickers but always keep my eyes open

My sisters yard is not the easiest to walk on a few potholes and some uneven areas and he has jumped off the bed quite a few times and chairs and couch, I have always lifted him in and out of the car, my house only has 2 steps, my sisters whole house is also carpeted and he seemed to feel right at home when we got here, I will still play ball with him after he recovers to where I see it's ok, but not long ball, I have walked the area where we was playing so many times and it's pretty well even in that area, there was probably things I didn't see or put together like I should have, you are right can't just blame it on the ball

Yes his muscle spasms have stopped, just has his sore I am healing spot yet

I have always let my dogs throughout the years know that I Love them and talk to them, read em a story or talk about what a good day we had

Glad you got your swim suit, you will find a spot I need to go back and swim again, I did get Skipper a kiddie pool when the time is right for him

A friend of mine sent me this photo and yes Skipper is my bestest buddy
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Re: Please help new to this Skipper my dog is lame both back legs

Post by critters » Fri May 10, 2019 2:31 pm

Well, I can't really say when it's time to splint; I only know when it's too late. :shock: If it's not contracted when he's off of it, that's certainly a good sign. You might also move it for him and see if it's getting stiff, which would be a sign of contracture. If he's on it funny a lot I'd splint sooner rather than later, and the splints from here at Handicapped Pets are nice. A splint holds it in the position of function so that it's less likely to get damaged.

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Re: Please help new to this Skipper my dog is lame both back legs

Post by kandykane » Sun May 12, 2019 2:38 pm

Moved Skippers paw and it doesn't stiffen up

Was in the kitchen this morning and was checking on him without him knowing I was

He tried standing up on his rear legs first I seen that on his own,
first his back legs were crossed and then he tried standing legs normally stayed almost standing for about a minute crossed legs, less than 30 seconds uncrossed

I didn't give him his pain meds this morning only baby aspirin, thought maybe detox his body a little, maybe it's just me but I don't like taking meds unless I have too, don't know if I shouldn't have done that but he seems ok, just the same pain he has in the same spot when I massage him, he has been relaxing all day, no spasms

guess some of my questions are, when do you know when you should give him a little more freedom, how can you tell if he is improving
I mean if he is on meds and they are keeping his body relaxed does he know ok I'm getting up and walking when he can't cause he is confined, I know he hasn't been super grounded long, but
was wondering what are the signs you look for, still no real feelings in his rear paws as did the pinch test again and still the same and if you really don't let him try how do you know as he is only going out to pee and poop and back grounded

Please don't get me wrong, I am not rushing this by no means, just thought through all your experiences if there were signs you looked for or seen before your dogs were up and walking again
Thanks

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Re: Please help new to this Skipper my dog is lame both back legs

Post by CarolC » Sun May 12, 2019 5:28 pm

kandykane wrote:Please don't get me wrong, I am not rushing this by no means, just thought through all your experiences if there were signs you looked for or seen before your dogs were up and walking again
Got it, and I agree. I think you are seeing the best sign there is, standing up. That is profoundly good news. That is about the best news you could hope for. There was never any guarantee he would improve at all, or how much he would improve if he did, so this is very good news. I didn't know if he would stand up. Do not be discouraged if he doesn't do it a lot, or doesn't do it again for a while, it's still early, but if he does that's great.

I don't know now to say this without it sounding too scary, but realistically he isn't out of the woods yet...? Though Thank Goodness he is starting to improve. Even though he is improving it is still entirely possible to re-injure it before it is healed, and make it much worse with one wrong move, and become completely paralyzed with zero feeling and no control of bladder and bowel. This is still really touch-and-go and I would still handle him like eggs.

For my two cents, kind of a life philosophy, it seems like there are some things in life where you only get one chance to do it right, and I would consider this to be one of those situations, and if you're like me you'd probably never forgive yourself if you let him do anything that allowed a re-injury and he became completely paralyzed. It looks like it is working, thank Heaven(!), so now it may need an extra dose of tough love to make it clear to the finish line. Hopefully between now and then his pain will be completely gone, because that is one important thing that still needs to happen. It's a good thing you crated him immediately back when this happened in March, I don't know how close you came to complete disaster.

I would go with the Dodgerslist recommendation of strict rest for 6-8 weeks (best practices have changed over the years, they are saying 8 weeks now). Strict means just as strict in Week 6 as it was in Week 1.
http://www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingdisc.htm" wrote: Anytime out of the crate is a dangerous time for a weak disc and the spinal cord.
According to the Strugis Vet website,
A typical IVDD case requires up to 6 weeks of confinement. This time frame is based on the time it takes the annulus to heal by scar formation. Fibrous scar tissue takes 3 weeks to begin to be laid down and scar formation reaches its peak at 6 weeks.
Also, this comment I'm about to make may not be scientific, it's just me, but I've heard people say when we're younger we heal faster. I don't know if that's true or an old wive's tale, but if it is, that's another reason to go 6-8 weeks instead of just 6. Six weeks is scientific, 6-8 is a judgement call. On Dodgerslist they have found there is less relapse with longer rest.

I am trying to figure out from the messages when he started doing strict rest. It is kind of hard to be exact because you were sort of resting him the first 3 weeks of April, but not so super strict. It seems like he settled down when you made his enclosure smaller. That was Apr 23. If you count from April 23, it would be June 4 when he can start gently having more freedom. That is, assuming his pain is gone and the vet approves.

Here is a classic quote from the Dachshund Diskbook.
If the nucleus pulposus has not herniated but significant weakening of the annulus fibrosus exists, one good jump off the couch is all it may take for the dog to become hopelessly paralyzed from irreversible spinal cord injury. The absolute necessity of cage rest in these animals cannot be overstressed. Failure to do so often contributes to disk herniation. Such a dog can never be hurt by too much cage rest, but certainly devastating results can occur if too little cage rest is used.
What pain med was he on? I only remember the new vet put him on Diazepam as a muscle relaxer.

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Re: Please help new to this Skipper my dog is lame both back legs

Post by kandykane » Sun May 12, 2019 7:54 pm

He is still super duper grounded, I know he has a long long way to go

Your good, glad you say what you say
It was scary watching him trying to stand was gonna yell at him, but that would be wrong also
I just don't want to have Skipper make a move or I make a move and sit him back or worse
I walked in there and told him he was a good boy but he had to watch what you are doing you know that we are taking baby steps here but for now you have to chill a few more months

It wasn't till about April 21 that Skipper was put on super strict as per your advice but made the space smaller a couple days later as he good still could move around to much

I feel helpless at times and yes I would never forgive myself if I did something to set Skipper back or worse, yes I am like you and yes the older you are the longer healing takes

He is taking Diazapam, I call it his pain pill to Skipper, Tell him it's time for your pain pill, it does help relax the muscles and let's him sleep
Seems funny at times typing what I say to Skipper, I talk and he listens, I know he knows what I am saying, and he talks, and gives me his different looks and I know what he is saying
But I know we all talk to our dogs and listen to them it just seems strange typing it at times

Hope you are having a Good Mother's Day

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Re: Please help new to this Skipper my dog is lame both back legs

Post by kandykane » Wed May 15, 2019 6:09 pm

Question on nails
my dog will not at all let me trim/cut his nails
they are getting really long
I am not going to chance taking him to the lady that has trimmed his nails not now
even after he is on the better road to recovery, how do you make sure
not to re injury or have a set back
I usually hold Skipper on the table as she does his nails
I hold him arm wrapped around his back to his belly and other arm around his neck holding his head on my chest, just thinking future thoughts here Thanks

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Re: Please help new to this Skipper my dog is lame both back legs

Post by CarolC » Wed May 15, 2019 8:51 pm

That's a good question. Just from common sense it seems like the way you normally hold him would be a good way to continue doing it. His injury is at L2 in the lower back, there should be good support for that part of his spine with your arm around his back to his belly. If you don't feel like you can hold his head and adequately support his hindquarters due to weight, maybe the thing to do would be to order him a little cloth muzzle. That would allow you to hold his hindquarters better and not have to worry about his head? My dogs all have their own muzzle in their own size, the blue nylon kind. I think I'd be more worried about letting someone else handle him (like a groomer who doesn't know his medical history), but when you're the one holding him you'll do it right.

I remember early appointments with Katie where we got her nails trimmed at the vet and they would come out to the waiting room to get her and take her to the back. It seemed like every time a different tech would come to get her, and I'd be earnestly explaining before I handed her over, "Now you need to understand, this dog can't stand up, she's paralyzed, she can't stand up, so be careful when you take her out," because I was worried they'd take her out of the carrier and kind of set her on the table expecting her to stand there, and she might go into a hard sit when they let go of her. Then we started getting the same really nice tech every time and I quit worrying.

Do you think he would let her do it lying on his side on the table if she used a dremel instead of the clippers, so you don't have to hold him? But if he's been doing it standing up all these years, that's how he's used to it.

There is actually a mention of nail trims on Dodgerslist near the end of this link:

http://www.dodgerslist.com/literature/A ... teRest.htm

Here's the kind of muzzle my dogs have. I take a magic marker and put the name of the dog on the white label inside because they look similar to the muzzles the vet has and I lost Katie's first muzzle that way. They accidentally didn't give if back after a nail trim and I didn't realize till later and by then there was no way to know which one it was, mixed up with their other ones, and I had to get her a new one.

http://www.fourflags.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.3765/.f

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Re: Please help new to this Skipper my dog is lame both back legs

Post by kandykane » Wed May 15, 2019 10:15 pm

I'd be beyond worried if I had to let my dog go with someone different each time
the lady who has been doing Skippers nails, asks do you want to come back with your dog or sit and wait
I said I'll come back and help, make it easier on everyone and I always tell him the night before what is going on so he knows, weather it be getting nails done seeing the vet or going for a walk or ride
still tell him now it's almost time to poop and/or pee gotta get you ready

Should I still wait till after his super duper grounded time

I think I will call this lady who has been doing his nails and ask her if she has ever
done a dog with a back injury/paralyzed and if she has ask her how she goes about it

She is a nice lady has her own dogs, horses and a couple cats, she does seem very knowable with animals

No he will not go for a dremel tried that when first got him a few times and nope, guess it's the sound
thought maybe just stay on the floor and trim his nails, I can hold him no problem there
trim his front nails while he is sitting and maybe he will lay down and do his back nails
I do need a good muzzle your right, looked at stores for them but they are not cloth ones, I didn't like the feel of them hard mesh so I know he won't either, cloth is what he would like

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