Labrador L5 IVDD post surgery

Neurological Disorders Resources. Treatment and care for pets having pain or trouble walking or standing due to spinal injuries or neurological disorders like IVDD, FCE and DM.
Lolalab
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Re: Labrador L5 IVDD post surgery

Post by Lolalab » Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:42 am

Thanks Carol, I will order this so I'll be ready for future :) For dog's with indwelling urinary catheter, is it normal to have some sediment or mucus floating in the bag? I think we have had 4 bags in the past 2 months, but that means we are still reusing a bags very frequently, and there's no way all the urine is going to coming out when i hang it to empty it. So then I worry that bacteria is growing, and could possibly crawl up the tube into her bladder. Her urine looked much better while on bactrim, but yesterday the bag looked a little murky again.
Also, no idea how to get her to drink more water. She straight up refuses to drink sometimes, moves her head away, even if I keep it next to her in reach.

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CarolC
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Re: Labrador L5 IVDD post surgery

Post by CarolC » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:08 pm

I have no experience with catheter bags, and unfortunately I don't think there are any posts here to refer you to. There have been people who catheterized their male dogs, but it did not involve an indwelling catheter and bag. I looked up indwelling catheters and found some instructions for HUMAN patients, which involve cleaning the bag. I do not know if the bags are similar and I do not know if you would follow the same procedure for a veterinary catheter bag, I'm sorry.

https://www.fairview.org/patient-education/85556

As for mucus in the bag, my understanding is that some mucus can be normal in healthy urine, but you'd probably need a vet to look at the bag and tell you if that looks normal. I wonder if you could get a good photo of it next time, and email the photo to the vet, or even take the bag in and have them take a quick look and tell you. I wish I could be more help. :oops:

On drinking more water, people here usually suggest either adding chicken broth to the water, or freezing broth into ice cubes and adding it to their bowl. About the only thing that works for me is stirring water right into the food.
Dianne wrote:
My doxie refused to eat and drink for a brief period of time. We cooked up a chicken cutlet, defatted and cooled the broth inorder to get him to drink. Chicken baby food is another option, but the homemade chicken broth (NOT canned with the high salt content)really worked for us.
If you really need the water intake up and she won't drink, another option is to give sub-q fluids. It is easier than you think, the vet gives you a bag and needles and tells you how much, and you do it once a day or once every couple of days or whatever the vet recommends. I've done it with several cats and with my golden retriever. You put a hump of fluids in the shoulders and it makes its way into the bladder and it doesn't matter whether she is interested in drinking or not. :pardon:

If you look online, there are a lot of websites with ideas on how to get your dog to drink more. I was noticing that they mostly seem to have affiliate links and I just don't want to give out the website links if they're into trying to get money from referring Amazon sales or something. But you might get some ideas from one of those if the idea of broth doesn't help.

Lolalab
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Re: Labrador L5 IVDD post surgery

Post by Lolalab » Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:58 am

Clean the bag...genius. Add broth to water...genius. I was making this harder than it needed to be :thankyou:

Lolalab
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Re: Labrador L5 IVDD post surgery

Post by Lolalab » Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:06 am

Sorry for a double post/all my questions....why does my dog obsessively lick her rectum? She never bothered her feet, at least so far; probably the gabapentin helped. But if I leave her alone without a cone, she will lick/bite her rectum. I keep her clean with "sensitive dog wipes" I buy from Amazon. I wish I could leave her for a couple hours without a cone, but a few weeks ago she almost made herself bleed from nibbling. She may have been constipated at that point, I'd added that freeze-dried food to her diet that requires water and her stools are much softer now. Should I let her clean herself up a bit? Or should I continue to cone her.

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CarolC
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Re: Labrador L5 IVDD post surgery

Post by CarolC » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:37 am

I don't know either. A guess would be there is some ingredient in the wipes that is making her itch. I'm not even sure there is any regulation on a manufacturer calling a dog product "sensitive" for advertising purposes. Does the FDA (or whoever) require it to be tested by veterinary dermatologists? Does it have to be proved non-irritating for a certain percentage of dogs with sensitive skin to achieve the label? Or can they just...print it on the label? If the product is sold on Amazon I would check reviews with low ratings, because if other people are finding their dogs react to the so-called sensitive wipes, they will be mad and report it in the reviews. It's really a shame when people go out of their way to try to buy the best product for their dog they love, and maybe pay more, and then it doesn't work as advertised. I wonder if you could use a wet paper towel and see if it improves?

This is a little off the subject but they make all kinds of human products for sensitive skin and many have aloe in them. I am allergic to aloe, if I put it on my face I look like I spent a week in Aspen after about 2 minutes. So in human products, just because something is advertised as sensitive does not mean it works for everyone.

If it's an allergic reaction and you are waiting for it to settle down, people use benadryl for dog allergies a lot. You'd probably want to ask the vet because I'm not sure about interactions. Apparently it is OK to use hydrocortisone cream on dogs. That is cheap at the dollar store (you'll pay a lot more at Walgreen's). They make different formulas. Some hydrocortisone creams will have only petroleum jelly as the inactive ingredient, while some will have a 2" long list of inactive ingredients. I'd get the plainest one. I don't blame you for keeping a cone on her if she is nibbling.

https://wagwalking.com/sense/can-dogs-u ... sone-cream

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critters
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Re: Labrador L5 IVDD post surgery

Post by critters » Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:41 pm

Lolalab wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:42 am
Thanks Carol, I will order this so I'll be ready for future :) For dog's with indwelling urinary catheter, is it normal to have some sediment or mucus floating in the bag? I think we have had 4 bags in the past 2 months, but that means we are still reusing a bags very frequently, and there's no way all the urine is going to coming out when i hang it to empty it. So then I worry that bacteria is growing, and could possibly crawl up the tube into her bladder. Her urine looked much better while on bactrim, but yesterday the bag looked a little murky again.I'd use something to wash it out. People are supposed to use vinegar to wash nebulizer masks, tubing, etc., for example. I don't know what would be best.
Also, no idea how to get her to drink more water. She straight up refuses to drink sometimes, moves her head away, even if I keep it next to her in reach.How about meat broth?
I can't remember what color Carol was using, but I don't want to use a light one. :D

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critters
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Re: Labrador L5 IVDD post surgery

Post by critters » Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:52 pm

CarolC wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:37 am
I don't know either. A guess would be there is some ingredient in the wipes that is making her itch. I'm not even sure there is any regulation on a manufacturer calling a dog product "sensitive" for advertising purposes. I doubt it.Does the FDA (or whoever) require it to be tested by veterinary dermatologists? Does it have to be proved non-irritating for a certain percentage of dogs with sensitive skin to achieve the label? Or can they just...print it on the label? If the product is sold on Amazon I would check reviews with low ratings, because if other people are finding their dogs react to the so-called sensitive wipes, they will be mad and report it in the reviews. It's really a shame when people go out of their way to try to buy the best product for their dog they love, and maybe pay more, and then it doesn't work as advertised. I wonder if you could use a wet paper towel and see if it improves?

This is a little off the subject but they make all kinds of human products for sensitive skin and many have aloe in them. I am allergic to aloe, if I put it on my face I look like I spent a week in Aspen after about 2 minutes. So in human products, just because something is advertised as sensitive does not mean it works for everyone.

If it's an allergic reaction and you are waiting for it to settle down, people use benadryl for dog allergies a lot. Cats too, but they don't take it willingly because it doesn't taste good.You'd probably want to ask the vet because I'm not sure about interactions. Apparently it is OK to use hydrocortisone cream on dogs. That is cheap at the dollar store (you'll pay a lot more at Walgreen's). They make different formulas. Some hydrocortisone creams will have only petroleum jelly as the inactive ingredient, while some will have a 2" long list of inactive ingredients. I'd get the plainest one. I don't blame you for keeping a cone on her if she is nibbling.

https://wagwalking.com/sense/can-dogs-u ... sone-cream

Lolalab
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Re: Labrador L5 IVDD post surgery

Post by Lolalab » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:14 pm

The physical therapist thinks she is "giving up". They are unable to work on her legs, particularly the right knee/hip because she gets very upset. I am also unable to do any kind of range of motion exercises. Looks like she's developed contractures in the right leg. Minimal joint mobility in the left. They've tried heating pads, massage, distraction. We start water therapy next week but she hates the water, so I'm not sure how well that's going to go. I am out of ideas.

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Re: Labrador L5 IVDD post surgery

Post by CarolC » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:55 pm

I sure don't have any ideas on the frozen leg either. I am a little confused because she stood up on her own on June 20. I know she needed help after that, but it does not sound like a dog who is giving up. I would try the hydrotherapy if you can afford it. I'm surprised she hates water, being a lab, but dogs have their own personalities. It may take a few sessions for them to get her used to it. At least that's my experience.

My own dog was scared of the treadmill. The first time or two she was in for 5 minutes, then 10, then 15, and they built her up gradually. One time when the water level was up, she was so scared she was panting and hyperventilating and we had to stop it and take her out and comfort her. However, once she became confident about it, she eventually begain squealing with anticipation when we drove over there.

This video was posted by one of our moderators, Joanne, who is also a certified professional veterinary rehab therapist. You may want to click the Watch it in Youtube icon so you can see it better. It shows several of her dogs playing. One (Carl) is paralyzed but you have to look hard to figure out which one he is. A couple of her dogs are what they call "straight leg shepherds". They are born with a genetic condition where their hind legs do not bend like normal dogs. In this video you can see them tearing around the yard with Carl.



Below are 2 pictures of one of my dogs, Dolly. She is partially paralyzed from a birth defect (dermoid sinus, it's like spina bifida). She wears a diaper because she's dual incontinent.

When I got her from Best Friends, she was 7 months old and only had one hind leg and her knee on that leg was frozen. When I got her I could tell there was something going on with her hip. It didn't feel right and she'd occasionally yelp when playing. X-rays found she had a broken hip, no idea how long it had been like that, so the first photo shows her after an FHO (hip surgery). FHO is where they remove the ball that holds the leg in the socket (because hers was broken and had sharp pieces in it causing pain) and a false joint is formed out of cartilage. We then did extensive professional physical therapy for months but the knee remained frozen. The second photo shows her running on the leg. Paralyzed, broken hip, frozen knee, diaper, running.
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Dogs don't say, "Why me?" They just get on with living. It may not be our idea of perfect, but they are happy if we can accept them for who they are. Joanne's dogs are obviously happy. Dolly is happy. Dolly is perfectly 'herself', and that is perfect to me. She would probably love to share some of Lola's ice cream, but she has to watch her weight. If you can't get the leg to move, then I suppose the next option is helping her continue to regain whatever mobility she can with straight legs. She stood up, that's a great start. Joanne's dogs have never been able to bend their legs. Lola can be happy, too. She must be tired of people expecting her to do something (bend her legs) that isn't happening. If you could maybe have a heart-to-heart talk with her and tell her it's OK, we'll see what we can do without bending, maybe it will cheer her up? All you can do is see what you can do with what she has. The nerves continue to heal for months and literally years.

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Re: Labrador L5 IVDD post surgery

Post by critters » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:35 pm

:wow: I had NO idea that Dolly can walk, much less run! :shock: :clap:

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Re: Labrador L5 IVDD post surgery

Post by critters » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:44 pm

Lolalab wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:14 pm
The physical therapist thinks she is "giving up". They are unable to work on her legs, particularly the right knee/hip because she gets very upset. I am also unable to do any kind of range of motion exercises. Looks like she's developed contractures in the right leg. My Koi Boy had been shot in the spine and had contractures. We operated and still couldn't fix them, but custom shoes and splints helped. His foot contracted underneath, so he walked on top. Minimal joint mobility in the left. They've tried heating pads, massage, distraction. We start water therapy next week but she hates the water, so I'm not sure how well that's going to go. I am out of ideas. I'd never heard of a Lab hating water before, but I guess everybody's different. :lol: I did hydrotherapy with a brain damaged one who hated water, too. She never learned to like it, but she'd tolerate it.

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Re: Labrador L5 IVDD post surgery

Post by CarolC » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:23 pm

critters wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:35 pm
:wow: I had NO idea that Dolly can walk, much less run! :shock: :clap:
Jennifer, the Best Friends photographer, caught it on film the day of the photo shoot for their website and they put it in the article. If she really wants to run, she goes all the way up on her leg. If she wants to walk or trot she uses her leg as kind of a spring to go halfway up. Even though her knee is frozen she still uses her leg to scratch her head and neck on that side.

When we found out about the broken hip, there was a suggestion to amputate, but I'm glad we didn't, because she has mobility and can scratch, and that must be so satisfying. (It also helps keep her diaper on.)

When we couldn't restore flexibility in the knee, there was an option to arthrodese the knee, in other words do surgery so it would be in a slightly bent position instead of straight (still frozen but bent), with the idea that it might be more functional. But I decided to just leave it straight, she seemed to be doing fine.

She uses a ramp to go in and out of the house, but we already had the ramp and she does it herself, she's independent, she doesn't need any help. I feed her and do the potty/diaper thing, and she does everything else herself.

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