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Acute non-compressive nucleus pulposus extrusion

Neurological Disorders Resources. Treatment and care for pets having pain or trouble walking or standing due to spinal injuries or neurological disorders like IVDD, FCE and DM.
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vera
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Acute non-compressive nucleus pulposus extrusion

Post by vera » Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:14 am

My pup Gemma was diagnosed with Acute non-compressive nucleus pulposus extrusion, with no deep pain sensation. Anyone dealing with this? Will she ever walk again? It's heartbreaking and she's only 3. She's a Boston terrier. I have been at home with her for 2 weeks and she starts physical therapy, laser therapy and hydrotherapy today. 3x a week. Anyone going thorugh his, please reach out. Thank you

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critters
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Re: Acute non-compressive nucleus pulposus extrusion

Post by critters » Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:27 am

:whale: Is this a specific kind of disk event? Are you expressing poop and/or pee? Is she taking any meds?

vera
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Re: Acute non-compressive nucleus pulposus extrusion

Post by vera » Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:39 am

Yes it is, it caused hemorrhaging in the spinal cord, which left her paralyzed. No surgery needed. Crate rest and physical therapy, laser therapy and hydrotherapy which she is starting today. She was on prednisone and tramadol.

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CarolC
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Re: Acute non-compressive nucleus pulposus extrusion

Post by CarolC » Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:41 am

Hi Vera,

:gang:

You might also try posting in this thread, there are two recent dogs with ANNPE. The prognosis is very good for recovery.

viewtopic.php?t=20027#p102721

vera
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Re: Acute non-compressive nucleus pulposus extrusion

Post by vera » Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:51 am

Thank you. I am not great with computers, how do I post in thread? Lol..

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CarolC
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Re: Acute non-compressive nucleus pulposus extrusion

Post by CarolC » Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:15 pm

Hi Vera,

Looks like you did it! :D Good deal. Hopefully one or both will reply. I have not dealt with ANNPE personally, but I would like to add that many websites talk about a dog with FCE or ANNPE improving in a couple of weeks, but from what I have seen here, several months is not uncommon. There is never a set timeframe for any dog with any spinal injury because they are all different, but the great majority of dogs with FCE or ANNPE will recover and go on to live normal lives.

Please be sure to post any questions you might have about the daily care, because chances are someone here will have experience with the same thing. If you have any questions about handling incontinence or scraped toes or anything like that, please don't hesitate to ask.

Deep pain sensation can be tricky to diagnose and it is possible to miss it. The standing is very encouraging. I am glad your dog is not too big. And to quote Rajah's mom, "PT is king!" :D

Liz and nels
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Re: Acute non-compressive nucleus pulposus extrusion

Post by Liz and nels » Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:33 am

Hi, my 7 year old lurcher, Nelly suffered a severe Acute non-compressive nucleus pulposus extrusion 7 weeks ago which rendered her completely paralysed from T13 down. With the exception of my daughter, I love this dog more than any human. At time of diagnosis, she was given a 10% chance of any recovery. She had 2 weeks in hospital, cathaterised where her deep pain sensation did return but no voluntary movement. I was told there was no hope and I should euthanise but I had seen a few twitches while she was dreaming so brought her home. I've been caring for her for 5 weeks now, giving her physio 3x day (massage, passive range of motion and gentle weight transfer) and expressing her urine. There has been some improvement. She can bear weight through her back legs briefly, there is definately some tail wags, some attempt at voluntary urination and some voluntary movement in back legs, but a long way off walking. Really I'm just reaching out to anyone who's been through/going through similar. It's tough, I'm a single mum amd am doing this on my own, but I will carry on while I'm seeing signs of improvement, and she remains in relatively good spirits. Just wanted to know if anyone else's pet had taken this long to show signs of improvement, if so, did they walk again and how far did recovery continue? I know every case is different but just really need a lift right now! And any advice on what more I can do to aid recovery. Thanks in advance...

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critters
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Re: Acute non-compressive nucleus pulposus extrusion

Post by critters » Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:43 am

:whale: In general, recovery from spinal cord injuries can slowly continue for months to a year or 2. Is hydrotherapy possible? People have used hot tubs, swimming pools, natural bodies of water, and even watering tubs for stock animals to do so.

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CarolC
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Re: Acute non-compressive nucleus pulposus extrusion

Post by CarolC » Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:43 pm

Liz and nels wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:33 am
Hi, my 7 year old lurcher, Nelly suffered a severe Acute non-compressive nucleus pulposus extrusion 7 weeks ago which rendered her completely paralysed from T13 down. With the exception of my daughter, I love this dog more than any human. At time of diagnosis, she was given a 10% chance of any recovery. She had 2 weeks in hospital, cathaterised where her deep pain sensation did return but no voluntary movement. I was told there was no hope and I should euthanise but I had seen a few twitches while she was dreaming so brought her home. I've been caring for her for 5 weeks now, giving her physio 3x day (massage, passive range of motion and gentle weight transfer) and expressing her urine. There has been some improvement. She can bear weight through her back legs briefly, there is definately some tail wags, some attempt at voluntary urination and some voluntary movement in back legs, but a long way off walking. Really I'm just reaching out to anyone who's been through/going through similar. It's tough, I'm a single mum amd am doing this on my own, but I will carry on while I'm seeing signs of improvement, and she remains in relatively good spirits. Just wanted to know if anyone else's pet had taken this long to show signs of improvement, if so, did they walk again and how far did recovery continue? I know every case is different but just really need a lift right now! And any advice on what more I can do to aid recovery. Thanks in advance...
Caring for a fairly large dog by yourself does take work, I did it with a golden retriever who could not walk, but your signs of recovery sound very, very good. What you are describing is how recovery happens, a tiny little bit at a time. Recovery is by baby steps. Really, it sounds like your dog is recovering at a pretty quick rate if she can do all that and it has only been 7 weeks.

I would think you would be able to start doing some more active PT in the coming week, but you might ask the vet to be sure. Or if your vet hospital has a PT department, they could evaluate her and recommend what to do. I am not a vet, but I would think walking her with a rear harness would be OK to start, maybe check with them and ask? If she is dragging her toes, you can protect them with vet wrap (it is a stretchy ace bandage you can buy at the vet or PetsMart) or you could get her some booties.

Hydrotherapy (exercise in water) is really helpful for dogs who are learning to walk again. They can either swim or walk on an underwater treadmill. If you have pet PT available with hydrotherapy, and if you can afford to take her for some sessions, I think that would be a help.

I agree every case is different and nobody can predict how quickly or how well a dog will recover. I would be optimistic about your dog, it sounds like she's going to be able to walk again based on how she is improving. It may take longer to regain bladder control, but you are already expressing her successfully and that will be easier to do when she can stand (she is standing briefly already, Yay! :yay: )

It sounds like she is doing really well. I am sorry they gave you such a negative prognosis, it sounds like she is already in the process of proving them wrong. The statistics on ANNPE are very, very positive. Here is a link.
https://veterinaryrecord.bmj.com/content/181/11/293 wrote:Abstract

Presumptive ANNPE and FCEM were diagnosed in 157 and 44 dogs , respectively. Ambulatory function was regained in 99 per cent of cases, with persistent motor deficits in 83.6 per cent and 92.5 per cent of dogs with presumptive ANNPE and FCEM, respectively. The presumptive diagnosis was not associated with motor function recovery, recovery times or urinary continence.
If you need any tips about the bowel and bladder care or anything like that, please don't hesitate to ask, but it sounds like you have all that under control. You are already expressing her bladder. Here is a useful article on bowel management.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=18586

Liz and nels
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Re: Acute non-compressive nucleus pulposus extrusion

Post by Liz and nels » Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:49 am

Thankyou Carol and critters! She took first supported strange, wobbly steps with rear harness on yesterday, yay 😁!! Her proprioception was pretty good too, she seemed to be planting her feet well 😁😁. She has her first session on underwater treadmill today. Feeling soooo much more optimistic now. I read in one paper on the subject it can take over 3 months to get to unassisted ambulation, but she seems on track. And you're right.. Expressing is much easier standing. Bowel movements just seem to happen on their own. Thanks again x

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CarolC
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Re: Acute non-compressive nucleus pulposus extrusion

Post by CarolC » Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:56 pm

That is great news! Woohoo! Would love to hear how the hydrotherapy goes. They may start her with short sessions till she gets used to it, then build up the time in the water gradually. Congratulations!
:trophy:

Liz and nels
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Re: Acute non-compressive nucleus pulposus extrusion

Post by Liz and nels » Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:00 am

Hey Carol, had the first hydrotherapy treadmill session, she wasn't that keen as she's never been a huge fan of water and I think she found the treadmill a bit freaky. But I'm going to persevere with it as I think apart from the PT I do at home it's going to be the most helpful thing for her. When she does take a few supported steps, it's like she's not quite sure where her legs are in space and they cross over etc, so I reckon hydro treadmill is the best thing to teach her where they are. Have another session on monday so just hope she gets used to it. Sounds like you have done a lot of caring for handicapped dogs.. Amazing, it's such a hard thing to do and requires sooo much commitment. This site has been great for me - with the exception of a couple of friends, I've had so much negativity and criticism from professionals, friends and even family - it's hard enough doing this on your own without that! . So it's been fantastic to hear of other people's experiences and successes and knowing not to panic if things don't seem to be happening quickly, and to be happy for every tiny improvement. Thanks so much x

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Re: Acute non-compressive nucleus pulposus extrusion

Post by CarolC » Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:44 am

Liz and nels wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:00 am
Hey Carol, had the first hydrotherapy treadmill session, she wasn't that keen as she's never been a huge fan of water and I think she found the treadmill a bit freaky. But I'm going to persevere with it as I think apart from the PT I do at home it's going to be the most helpful thing for her. This reminded me of a post I wrote about the same thing.

When she does take a few supported steps, it's like she's not quite sure where her legs are in space and they cross over etc, so I reckon hydro treadmill is the best thing to teach her where they are. Have another session on monday so just hope she gets used to it. This reminded me of another post. They actually make a pillow to put between the legs to help crossing now. I have never used it and have no idea how well it stays on or how well it works, but I used to dream of something like that. I agree, the treadmill is a great place for your dog to learn uncrossing. If she crosses and starts to fall, the water will support her till she gets untangled. Is the therapist in the treadmill with your dog? Here is a description of the way the therapist helped with crossing. Another way was to just keep one hand between the dog's legs during the session. Do not worry too much about it, even if she continues crossing she can still walk. Here is something I wrote in :arrow: 2007"
https://handicappedpet.net/helppets/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8444&p=43571#p43571 wrote:On the question of legs crossing, I know what you mean, my dog does that constantly. The official name for it is scissoring. She crosses her legs, then they get locked together, then she trips and drags. Then I am running along behind her calling, "Uncross! Uncross!" or I reach down and uncross them for her. I don't know of a way to cure crossing, I try to keep my dog's legs stretched and we just live with it. She does it less on pavement, more in grass. She has been walking (and crossing) since 2004.
Sounds like you have done a lot of caring for handicapped dogs.. Amazing, it's such a hard thing to do and requires sooo much commitment. This site has been great for me - with the exception of a couple of friends, I've had so much negativity and criticism from professionals, friends and even family - it's hard enough doing this on your own without that! . So it's been fantastic to hear of other people's experiences and successes and knowing not to panic if things don't seem to be happening quickly, and to be happy for every tiny improvement. Thanks so much x

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