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My Schnoodle had a Fibrocartilaginous Embolism FCE

Neurological Disorders Resources. Treatment and care for pets having pain or trouble walking or standing due to spinal injuries or neurological disorders like IVDD, FCE and DM.
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CarolC
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Re: My Schnoodle had a Fibrocartilaginous Embolism FCE

Post by CarolC » Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:40 pm

OK, I didn't realize his weight, thank you. If he has some movement in one hind leg that's wonderful!

I think you have 2 choices really. One is to take him to the vet tomorrow and have them show you how to empty his bladder with the catheter. The other is to ask them to show you how to express.

Using a catheter at home would be very reasonable because of his size. Even if you have a house with just one step out to the yard, it's still a lot to sling a 100 lb dog outside with a harness. A dog carries 60% of his weight on his front legs and 40% on his hind legs, so you are carrying 40 lbs on one side when you are slinging him around the yard with a harness. That is quite a bit, and if you are not young or strong, some people would be unable to do it. Also if you have steps to go up and down, or live in a second floor apartment, it's even more complicated.

You can catheterize a dog while he's lying in his bed, and you don't have to lift him at all. BethT, who was a moderator here, catheterized her dog, Waffles, for months (he didn't have FCE, he had a disk injury). With FCE the chances are very good you won't have to do this for too long, but as big as he is, I would recommend making it easy on yourself and not straining yourself too much with sling walking him. The vet will need to show you how to insert the catheter, and how to keep everything sterile, and then he'll have to give you the supplies. As long as you follow instructions on keeping everything sterile, it should be fine, and that would be my choice of the easiest thing to do if I had a 102 lb dog.

There are different ways to express the bladder and some are done standing up, and some are done with the dog lying down. So the other choice is to try expressing him lying down. If you can do that and get him empty, then that is all you need. If you can't, then you'll probably want to take him to the vet tomorrow and let them show you how to do it. If you look at the link I gave, some of the videos at the end of the article demonstrate expressing the bladder of a large male dog lying down.

In order for the vet to show you how to catheterize him or express him, they'll probably want you to load him in the car again and take him back to the vet for the lesson, and I know it is a job putting a big dog in the car. When you arrive at the vet, I would suggest you go in and ask them to send someone out to bring him in. You have enough work to get him from your house into the car, and from the car back into your house. It would be better if you could ask them to assist in getting him in and out of the car while you are at the vet.

Corandmel
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Re: My Schnoodle had a Fibrocartilaginous Embolism FCE

Post by Corandmel » Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:21 am

He is heavy. And between my wife and I are okish with bringing him outside. It’s now 3:16am and he woke us up to bring him outside. We took him for a lap of the front yard and he did not go pee or poop before he led us inside. I tried to find his bladder, but I think he may have to poop as his abdomen was pretty solid. Tried to hold him in a poop position but again nothing came out. Because he led me inside, we came back in and he led me back to his bed with no going to the washroom. Will be calling the vet in the morning and see what they have to say. I appreciate your continued help with any tips on toiletting or anything else you have learned that might help us with dogs with FCE, as we are very new to it and information online is all over the place. We are here to help our dog and want to keep him as comfortable as possible. Thank you again for responding and helping, your information is very valuable to us at this time.

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Re: My Schnoodle had a Fibrocartilaginous Embolism FCE

Post by CarolC » Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:17 am

Hi Corandmel,

Did you have a chance tot check the 2 links I gave earlier? One shows how to empty the bladder (with videos at the end of the article). The other shows how to stimulate his bottom to make him poo.

If he empties the bowel first, it makes it easier to express the bladder.

There are several methods to getting a dog to poop on demand. I would do it with him lying down. You will want to put something under him so he does not mess his bed (like a puppy pad?). Now you need to stimulate his anus. You can insert a Q-tip a little way and move it around a little to kind of tickle him inside his bottom. Or you can take an ice cube and apply it to his anus and hold it there. Or you can pinch and pull his anus gently (with or without gloves, it's up to you). Or you can read the other methods described in the link I gave. Here is the link again. This is the link on how to empty the bowel. It's a short article and includes pictures.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=18586

The abdomen being solid could be several things, or a combination. It is probably a very full bladder. When the bladder is full, the abdomen feels large and tight as a drum. It could be some feces. It could also be some gas brought on by stress and not defecating.

When the bladder is quite full (so that the abdomen feels big and tight as a drum) you will not be able to feel the outline of the bladder, that is normal. In my experience you can only feel the outline of the bladder if is it medium or small.

I hope you are able to get your appointment and get this sorted today.
:angel:

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Re: My Schnoodle had a Fibrocartilaginous Embolism FCE

Post by Corandmel » Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:30 pm

He actually peed in the yard at about 5 this morning. He hasn’t gone since , . We called our vet and he said the bowel movement should come even if it’s him laying down. So it is a positive although he is very stubborn and does not want to get up to move. He flops to his back/ side whenever we try to stand him up. And at 101 lbs/ 45.5 kg, makes it very hard . We are trying to get him moving as much as possible. We appreciate all your help, thank you

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Re: My Schnoodle had a Fibrocartilaginous Embolism FCE

Post by CarolC » Wed Aug 12, 2020 3:12 pm

That is wonderful about the peeing!

You must have had no sleep last night if you took him out at 3 and again at 5. There is a reason there are so many sleepy smilies on this board.
:snooze: :countsheep: :offtobed: :sleepingdog: :morning:

On the rolling over problem, been there, done that. I already had a paralyzed dog requiring care during my lunch hour, and then my golden retriever also began to go down. At the time he could still walk but he could not get on his feet without help. I would want to get him up and out to the yard quickly on my lunch hour, and he would roll over, and I didn't know how to get him into the sphinx or library lion position on his tummy with his front legs forward so I could boost his rear. Here was a very stressed out post I posted about the same problem.
https://handicappedpet.net/helppets/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4182&p=21608#p21608 wrote:I'm like, how can I help him stand up if he won't let me help him up because he automatically rolls on his back for a belly rub, and I know my patience isn't the best, it has to be a close order drill around here, NO TIME for dogs rolling over on their back when they need to go outside and the clock is ticking on my lunch hour which is already jam packed and I'm 2 min late back to work every day as it is and my paralyzed dog is going to have to give up part of her lunchtime walk which is a health matter, she needs it, it's 40% of her daily walking, but maybe I can get up earlier and exercise her before work so the shorter walk at lunch won't matter so much, and how am I going to get him into a cart if he's rolling over on his back as soon as I approach when I have maybe 5 minutes to get him in and out the door or in and out of his cart, I've actually driven around the neighborhood near work looking at houses for sale, if I didn't have to drive so far I'd have more time for 2 down dogs at lunch..........you get the picture, it's a big deal if I can't get him off his back and into a position to stand up, we can do this if he'll work with me
Since there are 2 of you, I would suggest a standard nylon chest harness. It gives you something to grab on the front end. One of you can lift his rear harness and the other one can grab the chest harness, keeping in mind that the front half of the dog is heavier. (He is beautiful, I saw the picture. :wub: )

You might also try putting a treat a few inches out of reach of his nose and see if he sits up to get it.

The great majority of FCE dogs will recover walking and go on to lead normal lives.

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Re: My Schnoodle had a Fibrocartilaginous Embolism FCE

Post by Corandmel » Wed Aug 12, 2020 3:41 pm

We Appreciate That. We have been trying almost everything and we do
Manage to get him pushing his top end up but he rolls back over when we approach. We have special harness with handles on both ends of him, his simple very stubborn. But yes you are right, we haven’t had much sleep since Knox’s incident. I am ok with that as long as I know I’m helping him. We have our first physio appointment on Tuesday. For now our focus is trying to get him up often and toiletting is still an issue. He’s pres once for us but has yet to have a bowel movement.

I can only imagine your frustrations trying to do this on a lunch break.

Appreciate your response and info, thank you!


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Re: My Schnoodle had a Fibrocartilaginous Embolism FCE

Post by CarolC » Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:43 pm

I do not know if this would work, because I haven't tried it. But I wonder if when you kind of get him semi-pushed upright in front, what would happen if you stuffed a large blanket roll up against his side so he can't roll back down again? Or a foam wedge pillow? I don't know.
:thinking:
Glad you have a 2-handled harness, that's good.
Corandmel wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 3:41 pm
has yet to have a bowel movement.
Did you try stimulating his bottom? It works on a paralyzed dog. If he is not paralyzed, he may be holding it. Dogs are used to squatting and if he can't squat he may not feel comfortable trying to do his business in a harness. Yes, he will go eventually. If necessary, the vet can give you a stool softener that is safe for dogs.

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Re: My Schnoodle had a Fibrocartilaginous Embolism FCE

Post by Corandmel » Wed Aug 12, 2020 5:49 pm

It might actually, Ive been getting behind him with my body to stop this. I will try a roller.

Thank you

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Re: My Schnoodle had a Fibrocartilaginous Embolism FCE

Post by Corandmel » Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:35 pm

Six days after his FCE, and Knox had his first bowel movement, and I am beyond excited. Hoping it continues!!

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Re: My Schnoodle had a Fibrocartilaginous Embolism FCE

Post by CarolC » Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:04 pm

Bet it will! Congratulations! I'm sure he's happy, too! :trophy:

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Re: My Schnoodle had a Fibrocartilaginous Embolism FCE

Post by CarolC » Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:39 pm

Corandmel wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:30 pm
He actually peed in the yard at about 5 this morning. He hasn’t gone since , . We called our vet and he said the bowel movement should come even if it’s him laying down. So it is a positive although he is very stubborn and does not want to get up to move. He flops to his back/ side whenever we try to stand him up. And at 101 lbs/ 45.5 kg, makes it very hard . We are trying to get him moving as much as possible. We appreciate all your help, thank you
You have probably solved the problem of him laying on his side, or he may be better by now. But here is a cute idea someone posted:
shariinsd in A problem with Rosy. (funny)
This morning we were trying to get Rosy to go outside. She was laying on the floor on her side looking pathetic. I was pretty sure she could get up because I thought I saw her sitting earlier. However now, milk bones and bread crusts could not motivate her. I was a little worried because we just starting skipping nights with the steroid and the last time she had a set back. So to see how bad she really was I rang the door bell. In one second she was sitting completely up.

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