Frosty - Update and questions

[Frosty]

I took Frosty for the urinary catheter last nite and saw Surgeon - he said he did not have a good feeling about him because he had a 103 fever, some dihreha and when he felt the area around his incision from herniated disc operation, it hurt Frosty. The putting him down subject came up. I looked at him and said you're giving up on him aren't you - it's only been 5 days. I pointed out that the diarrhea could have been caused by the change in diet and also the fact that he's on so many meds. I noted that I thought the pain around the ruptured area would be normal after this operation and that I had seen on this website that other animals experienced pain for quite some time. I also suggested that he give him another Fentanyl patch since the other had run out (as of yesterday he was on Tramadol and metacam). The malaisa came up and I pointed out that he was still strong in his front quarters and holding his head up (tks Carol).

I'm not going to let Frosty suffer, but am I totally off because I love him so much and want to give him a chance. I left feeling quilty and that maybe I shouldn't have put him through the operation. How will I know if I need to let him go? Last nite he looked at me and I swear he smiled.

Today, he ate and pooped with the ice cube method (tks Murphy's Dad). He did growl at me when I tried to take him out of the cage. The bruising in the skin of his caudal abdomen and rear limbs is better so I'm going to ask to be taught how to express him tomorrow.

I guess my biggest question is - how long (and I understand all animals heal differently) would I expect him to feel pain after the operation - I just can't believe it should be gone after only 5 days??

Thanks for your help - without this wonderful Forum I would be so lost. Karen and Frosty

[BethT]

Karen,

I am not a vet but if you google the normal temp of a dog you will see that high normal is considered 102.5. So I don't see where 103 is such a high temp.

I have a dog named Waffles and he ruptured a disk, had the surgery and never regained the ablitiy to walk or use his bladder. Carol mentioned me in her post about myelomalsia. The first day after the surgery I was told that Waffles had it and to be prepred for a phone call in the middle of the night asking permission to put Waffles down because he would not be able to breath. I said goodbye to him thinking that I was never going to see him again. Well that was 2 years ago so obviously I never got that phone call. Waffles is an extremely happy cart dog with an excellent quality of life. I think surgeons look at paralyzed dogs as "failures" that is why they are so quick to suggest "putting down" your animal. I also don't think that the myelomalsia thing is very well understood. It is rare. I was told that Waffles had it for sure. Waffles surgery was done at what is considered the best vet school in the country. They told me that there was a window of opportunity of one week after the surgery that myelo. could occur. After Waffles did not die they told me well you really have to watch for it for 2 weeks. They told me that Waffles would start to have great difficulty breathing so to watch for that. And yes like Carol said before the breathing would come weakness in the front legs and neck.

I do remember at day 5 post surgery that Waffles let out a yelp when he moved too suddenly. So yes I do believe that Frosty could still be experiencing some pain. I would think that every dog is different. The first time I saw Waffles after his surgery his eyes were bright red with blood. I was asked if he had had a head trauma. He had not. My regular vet believes as do I that something went terribly wrong that night at the hospital. We believe that he was probably dropped off a table on his head (severe head tramua). He did not even know who we were for a few days. His red blood count dropped from 48 to 18 in 36 hours. No one there could explain it. He had something called Shift Sherrington Syndrome. Basicly his front legs were sticking out stiff as boards. That went away. His stools were black as tar from some kind of internal bleeding. And after we sat in the er for 3 hours waiting, I then went to the hospital myself for the bite he had given me when he first went down. He would never bite, he was just in so much pain. Anyway the point of this rambling message is that dogs have an amazing ability to fight back. Hang in there this is the hardest part. It gets easy compared to the first few weeks.

[CarolC]

Last nite he looked at me and I swear he smiled.

Karen, that is great! Not the part about the doctor, but the rest of it. Good for you for advocating for him--did they give him another patch after you asked? Of COURSE his back still hurts. My heavens, wouldn't yours? Major surgery is going to hurt a LOT longer than 5 days. The incision alone is going to be uncomfortable for a couple of weeks, never mind all the internal stuff they cut/scraped/wired/stapled/whatever. There's going to be a lot of swelling. Did you ever have an injury swell and it didn't hurt?? I may have mentioned, my dog was on pain meds for about 4 weeks after her spinal fusion (reduced the fracture and stabilized it with staples, bone cement, and 32 sutures.) The doctors had no problem prescribing them. Why? Because they knew she was going to be sore for a WHILE!!!

I have actually met one vet and his assistant who thought animals didn't feel pain. Some also go on the theory that if you don't prescribe pain meds the animal will be less tempted to move around and will heal faster. But you have to handle this dog to do the necessary nursing care--even if they don't care whether your dog hurts (which they SHOULD) they need to be aware that you must handle the dog and pain control is important. *sigh*

If your dog is eating, he's giving you his vote that life should go on. I'm sorry this vet is causing you so much grief. A lot of people report negative vets on this website. Some do report supportive, postive vets--those are refreshing--but there are a lot like yours. Just keep doing what you're doing. It sounds like you're doing well.

If you're going to start expressing tomorrow, I just want to tell you in advance that getting it right the first time is the exception, not the rule. Do not be surprised if after your lesson on expressing, you still don't feel like you're good at it. It takes a week or two to get really confident at expressing, so remember you are normal if you aren't perfect right away. Vets are used to this. We are used to it here, too. You can be pretty sure your vet wasn't perfect at it the first time he tried it either. ;)

Here's a link to get familiar with expressing in case you haven't seen it yet.

http://www.handicappedpets.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Express_a_dog_or_cat

By the way, you said he growled when you went to take him out of his crate. Is he in a small crate where it is awkward to get him out? Are you having trouble maneuvering him out of it, or did he just growl because he thought you might hurt him? I used one of those nice wire cages with a wide door for my dog--it made it easy to put her in and take her out. I also had it up on the table so I didn't have to bend to get to her. Since your dog is small, that might be an option. Just be careful he doesn't do a nose dive off the table when you open the door.

[Frosty]

Thank you Beth, Carol and Ems,

Your feedback was extremely helpful and your stories about your dogs are so inspirational for me. I have had back surgery due to a ruptured disc so I know what post surgery feels like--it just didn't make sense that Frosty would be mostly pain free in such a short span of time.

It's been a week tonight and I see signs of improvement--even the Surgeon (I think he just thought Frosty should be progressing faster) was surprised when he saw him today. Unfortunately, it is still painful (have some valium when I do try) to express him so he's on the catheter this weekend and we try again Monday. In the meantime, I'm going to buy him a little red wagon and take him to all of his favorite sniffing spots to try to stimulate him!

A larger crate is on it's way tonight and yes I do think the size is some of my problem.

Honestly, without this support group and the wealth of information I've received this week, I don't think I would be feeling as positive as I am today!

Thank you and sloppy dog kisses from Frosty!