2nd FCE ?

[Trublu11254]

My Boston Terrier, Jack, on June 11 had what is believed to have been an FCE epsisode. He was given a mylogram under the care of a neuro-vet on Sunday which should no disc damage. The spinal fluid was tested and results came back good. All his blood work was good as well. I brought him home on Monday and started caring for him, started PT, and had a chiro working on him daily. By Wednesday he was actually getting up with help and taking steps, walking about 10-12 feet before I would stop him to rest. This continued till Friday. By Saturday I could tell he was not the same. Not wanting to move so much or as well, so I figured he had done too much and let him rest more but continued his PT. By Sunday morning he could not stand at all. He has feeling in all his limbs, reacts strongly to pain, ( toe pinch ). He seemed to not be able to pee either. Back to clinic. They expressed bladder and upon doing so found that he started to relieve himself once they let up a bit. He saw Neuro Doc the next morning who is stumped. He thinks he may have had a 2nd FCE but that is rare but what else could it be? He is not painful so it is not a disc issue. He is having an MRI Thursday morning. My question is this. Do you think with continued PT, chiro, and TLC he might get back some movement? Has anyone else had a second episode or a major set back like this?
Thanks you all:)

[poohbearsmom]

I've never heard of a second FCE?
Especially so soon after the first.
Although the Vet did tell me after Poohbear was recovered (as much as possible) not to let her twist or lunge after her kong or try to do steps on her own as she could injure her back.
Almost makes me think it's some kind of other problem or they inadvertantly re-injured it during the chiro treatments?

[Trublu11254]

The chiro treatments have been so mild but who knows? He has so much feeling and gives a lot of resistance to certain PT moves, I hope there is enough nerves ther to grow back if that makes sense? He acts playful whn I roll him on his back and is always hungry and actually will crawl off his bed now to let me know he wants to go out to potty so I am going to hang tough:)

[annette47]

No advice, but I think an MRI to get a clearer picture is a good idea .... keep us updated & sending good thoughts!

[Trublu11254]

Jack had his MRI on the 23rd. It showed he did have a 2nd FCE. The Neuro vet said he has just as good a chance of a promising recovery from this as he did from the first it will just take longer. He has been down since Saturday evening of June 18th with the 2nd FCE. Yesterday he stood by himself for about 4 seconds but has not tried since. I am using a sling and doing practice stands for counts of 10 several times a day.
We have an appt. with a PT but cannot get into see her til next weekend:( I cannot believe that there are not more people trained in canine PT in KY! If there is they certainly are not advertising their abilities. I will keep on with range of motion, flex exercises, etc until we get pro help! Keeping his spirit up is also a challenge.
He gets depressed I can tell so I spend a lot of time with him but also have to leave him to run errands that he can't accompany me on , mow grass, and so on and so on:( I do have 3 other Boston Terriers to keep him company but he doesnt really relate well to them becasue he just does not think of himself as a dog!!

[poohbearsmom]

I'm so sorry to hear that Jack had a second FCE.
But it sounds like the Vet thinks he has a good chance of recovery.
Poohbear only saw her PT twice a week in the beginning.
Is there hydro therapy available in your area?
That is what Poohbear responded to best.
But every dog is different.
If he seems depressed - maybe take him for a car ride and stop at McDonalds or Dairy Queen for a little treat?
Just him and Mom.
Hoping for a good outcome for Jack.

[annette47]

I too am sorry to hear that it was a second FCE, but am glad to hear he's got a good shot at recovery.

We haven't gotten Scully to official PT yet at all, but swimming has done wonders for her ability to control her rear legs - strength is coming along slower, but is improving. She "stood" for a few seconds today, although her knees were bent pretty far and she was pretty much crouched in the back, but she wasn't actually lying down, so it was an improvement.

Her FCE recovery has taken a back seat at the moment to an abscessed tooth, but that has finally started responding to the antibiotics, so we are hoping she'll be back to herself soon (she has been a bit down, probably from her tooth hurting). We've been home cooking her soft foods (although she is still willing to eat hard kibble - we just thought it would be easier on her), and honestly, it's been kind of fun spoiling her. I like the suggestion of bringing Jack along on a car ride for ice cream to perk up his spirits! Yesterday, we put Scully in a wagon and took her with us around the neighborhood while we walked the other dogs - she really enjoyed that, too. I think she was just bored of hanging around the house so much.

[Trublu11254]

So it's been a month to the day from Jack's 1st episode. The 2nd occurred on the 18th so maybe I should be tracking improvement from that date? Anyway, he can walk short distances, very spraddled legged behind still with both hind legs. He tires very easily of even the shortest of walks, like 20 feet. He will be panting like he has done a sprint. Is this to be expected? He is getting accupuncture by a vet and PT by me here at home after having visited with a PT at the clinic and learning just what to do. He is very wobbly on his legs but can step over short obstacles in his way. He has made great improvement to this point but now I almost feel like we are stuck? What are you all's experiences at this stage of progress? I am determined to keep doing all that I can to help him get back to the dog he once was but I don't think that will be quite possible. I will be happy with 75% if that is all we can get! I did NOT like the neuro vet telling me that what I had in about 5 weeks from now will be what he will be:(( The accupuncture vet and PT did not agree with that comment. Hope they are not giving me false hope.

[poohbearsmom]

I think every dog is different.
But my Poohbear took a looong time compared to most before she recovered as much as she could.
Sometimes I would not noticed ANY progress for 2 weeks and then there would be a small bit.
I kept a journal - so I could see she HAD made progress.
It was 4 months before she was recovered as much as she could.
She always walked wobbly after that - but she walked on her own.
I'd say - hang in there and keep up the good work.
He's up and walking & I think that's wonderful.

[Trublu11254]

Thanks for replying:) Yes, keeping a journal is a good idea, think I will start one today. My driving force are the people I am working with who have such positive outlooks plus tell me they have seen neurologic dogs continue to improve for many months expecially if the owner will keep up the "homework"!
I get sad when I think just a short 5 weeks ago what a vibrant, bounding dog he was and now I have got to be his cheerleader to even get him moving in the morning. But I'm a great cheerleader:)
It's nice to have this place as a sounding board during tough times.

[poohbearsmom]

It was very depressing for me - lots of tears shed - when I'd think of of the things Poohbear couldn't do after her FCE.
Like running in the woods on long hikes and she loved to fetch her kong (that's what she was doing when she had her FCE).
Things changed so drastically after her FCE.
But we just came up with different fun things for her to do.
We bought her a swimming pool.
She could swim after & fetch her kong in it & she got water therapy at the same time.
She LOVED it.
And in the house - we would throw the tennis ball to her and she would catch it and bring it back - helped with her sense of balance.
She was a Lab that LOVED to retrieve.
So even though the games were different - she still had a lot of fun in her life.
If your dog likes car rides - I always suggest a car ride to McDonalds or Dairy Queen and a treat to lift the spirits of dog & owner.

[micony]

Hello trublu...are going through a similar siituation where our Duke had a 2nd FCE and doesnt seem to be progressing nearly as well. How is Jack doing?

[Trublu11254]

I'm sorry to hear your boy is going through this too. Jack's 2nd FCE affected his left side where the 1st had affected the right. The MRI we had done showed clearly that his FCE was between cervical 6-7. Do you know where your dogs FCE developed?

It has been 6 weeks from the 1st episode, 5 from the 2nd. Jack was having trouble getting back on his feet without help for about 2 weeks or so. He is doing much better now. I took him back yesterday the 23rd, to see the physical therapist and she was actually delighted with his progress. He wanted to stay on his feet during the whole visit practically, explored her office, attempted to climb into the treadmill water tank! and dug in blankets, stepped over low poles. Just a lot of different things. But he still cannot climb stairs well, he cannot run or even trot. He has a slow walk and is still very spraddled leg behind. The PT attibuted this stance due to his hind end still being very weak so I have exercises I am starting, to help him with that. Jack has also been seeing an accupuncturist who has been doing electro stym type accupuncture on him. This has made a great deal of difference in him getting his neck pain free and able to move it easily. The PT also showed me how to use a tens unit on his hind quarters so we have added that to our bag of tricks!
What is your dog doing now? How long since his FCE and time between 1st and 2nd? Are you getting any outside help? I'll tell you this, if I had a job away from home Jack would not be where he is now. It has been daily, sometimes almost hourly, in the beginning, PT on him just keeping things moving, massaging his neck and back. Oh yeah, and I am also using a pointer laser on him on accupressure points on either side of his spine, his paws, and a few other areas. These are all just suggestions for you:) I believe they work but it is non stop. But Jack is like a child to us so I do it:)
I'm anxious to hear about Duke!