Please give me some hope.....

Neurological Disorders Resources. Treatment and care for pets having pain or trouble walking or standing due to spinal injuries or neurological disorders like IVDD, FCE and DM.
cshell
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Hi KimK & HaleyBop

Post by cshell »

I was just thinking about you guys!! It's funny, I am only 3 weeks into this and life has leveled out a bit to where I have my strength back enough to realize no matter the outcome she is still the same dog with the same unconditional love...our bond has just become a LOT bigger. Everyone at my workplace has listened to me cry and give daily Muffyn updates, but no one would dare say that to me. People like that are really sad, that they do not know the special love you have for your baby!! I didn't tell you last night that from the second day of Muffyns trama (Thursday) until the following Wednesday, she did not poop and I thought she would explode. I was getting very worried even though the vet said it would come and if not she would evacuate her which sounded terrible. She too, recommended the pumpkin which I could only get about a half a teaspoon in her. But one day later Muffyn's bowels were back to normal and have been ever since. HaleyBob will improve with every passing day......especially since she has a wonderful Mom. :D
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connie
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bowels

Post by connie »

hi kim,
just thought i'd share this with you for support. after cricket had surgery, he had to stay in memphis at vets for a week. he wouldn't eat for them much, no bowel movements. after i brought him home, it was 3 days before he started eating good again and finally started having daily bowel movements.
he also moved around in crate, very restless. in fact he cried and howled so bad neighbors thought he was hurt. since he was little, i brought him out to stay on pad beside me on sofa when i was watching t.v., but ONLY while i had arms around him. he must not fall. it seemed to comfort him some. anyway i did passive P.T. on legs while he was crated. vets told me to bend his legs to keep his muscles limber. we did this 3 times a day for 10 minutes.
when he healed and no longer crated, i put him in warm water in bathtub with water to his neck and worked his legs under water, ( HYROTHERAPY). it really helped my boy, we did this 3 times a week for 20 minutes. we still do that!!. he also kept bending his paws under while he was recovering. so EVERY time he did this, i would stand him up and bend them normally. boy that was hard and had to do it over and over. it finally paid off, he quit bending them and dragging.
you have the heart to help that baby of yours, i can tell.
the people who tell you discouraging things, hey tell em to kiss off! lol. you'd be surprized at things that were said to me , especially from family. i work with elderly in their homes, and i tell people , that you don't put a human down when they are old or disabled, right? so let em talk, i am truly loved and blessed having cricket. he can do everything he wants, just differently from other doggies.
give that tiny baby of yours a hug from me and tell him cricket sends a doggie slurp right on the face. lol.
prayers are with you both.
oh yes, MAKE SURE, you get much needed rest, the stress at first made me very ill. i had to learn to take care of me inorder to help cricket.
hugs, connie and cricket
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KimK
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Location: Covington, WA

HaleyBop

Post by KimK »

Hello all, not a good day for the Bop and I. Diarrhea all day long, my washer is running non-stop. Haley hates to be "dirty", she cries whenever she has an accident. I'm making her eat the pumpkin, and the vet told me I could give her 5ml of immodium after each episode. I'm lucky that my son's wife-to- be works for my vet, makes getting hold her her easier. Could it be the steroids that is giving her diarrhea? She has never had a problem before....or is it the inactivity of being in her crate 27 / 7? I'm so lucky that Haley is a 5lb chihuahua....
She's been trying to stand on her own, but falls over. Her back legs stick straight forward. I know I need to wait to start massaging and moving them, but it makes me feel so inadequate....I want to help her so bad.
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pmilner
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Post by pmilner »

Yes, diarrhea can be a side effect of steroids.

Steroids suppress the immune and inflammatory systems which may result in increased susceptibility to infection (UTIs, staph, etc.)

So if the cause of diarreah is due to bacteria then stopping diarrhea can cause a more serious problem. So check with the vet and make sure this is not an infection.

Dehydration and electrolyte imbalance are a concern with diarrhea.

--Pedialyte to put electrolytes back in balance, available from the grocery store.
--no salt, non- fat Chicken broth or water to keep Bop hydrated.

Temporary bland diet til the diarrhea is under control. Boil brown rice til it on the soft side with boiled chicken and broth skimmed of fat. A 5 minute boiled egg is also easy to digest.

Nutrical, a gel that is high in calories and gentle on the stomach (main ingredient corn syrup)

----
Paula Milner
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DD on Cape Cod
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Post by DD on Cape Cod »

Hi Kim,

I am so sorry you are having these tough days....Please hang in there. The first days and weeks are very tough.

Max also had many changes while he was on the prednisone. He stopped eating his kibble, and also stopped eating the boiled hamburg and rice, chicken, and other human foods we at first got him to eat...even the baby food. We also tried a variety of canned dog foods which he would eat for a day or two and then refuse.....he eventually developed very loose stools, and we could hear the rumbling in his belly. We know the prednisone can cause this, but we also believe that some of this was caused by the drastic changes in his diet. As Paula said, it will be important to keep Haley hydrated. And keep reporting what's going on to your Vet.

As far as appetite, keep trying and keep going back to some of the foods she was accepting--there were days Max would not touch the baby food, but then one day he would eat a whole jar. We kept experimenting and offering different things, at times we felt desperate, but Max's appetite did not improve until about a week after his final dose of prednisone. If your dog likes fish, maybe try some salmon, mackeral, or sardines? Maybe try cooking the chicken a little differently. It really was trial and error for us. It was only last week that Max started eating his kibble again.

I am so sorry for the ignorance of your co-worker and the pain he caused you. I learned it was not worth talking to people who did not have the bond like we all have with our animals. They DO NOT understand, and will only cause you pain. Seek support from those you trust, or others who have animals they love, and others who have been thru what you are going thru, like the folks here. Especially this forum, because even other animal lovers may not fully understand what is going on. There was a person who adores animals, who actually said to me, "you know your dog is going to die, don't you?" I was speechless. I wish had known about this site and had the support of the wonderful people here.

Take one day at a time. Breathe deeply. Try to get your rest and eat right so you can stay healthy to care for the Bop.
We are all here for you.
Dori
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CarolC
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Post by CarolC »

pmilner wrote:Very hard to express diarrhea <ggg> Wait til her stool firms up.
I'm sorry this is going to be pretty graphic. Please don't read it if you are squeamish.

In my experience it is not hard to express diarrhea, it is easier than expressing firm stools. The reason is (sorry, here's the graphic part) the dog with diarrhea or loose bowels is pretty much pressurized and ready to expel with very little encouragement. :oops: Put a disposable glove on your expressing hand, have a box of kleenex or wipes nearby, and position your dog someplace where you can easily clean up, such as on a puppytraining pad. Spread your thumb and index finger wide in the shape of a lobster claw and grasp a large amount of the soft tissue around the anus. Press in and then squeeze, and after a momentary resistance the dog will pass the first strong squirt of diarrhea. Repeat until the dog's bottom is empty and no longer feels "poochy" and pressurized.

Why did I bother to describe something like this and offend everybody? Because, it may seem unpleasant for the owner, but expressing a dog with diarrhea is a kindness for the dog, as your dog does not want to make a mess and perhaps have to lie in it. As the caregiver you are going to have to clean it up anyway, so there is no avoiding the diarrhea. You might as well express the dog's bottom, keep the dog clean and comfortable, and if you are lucky also avoid bathing. That is my experience.
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KimK
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HaleyBop

Post by KimK »

Thanks for all the encouragement....it was a better day today. I tried the rice with some broth, and Haley actually ate a few teaspoons full. I'm also giving her a teaspoon of Nutri-Cal twice a day, and lots of water. I had some pedialyte here from when my granddaughter was ill, so I squirted 10cc's in her every 4 hours. So she's staying pretty hydrated. Carol, I did express her diarrhea, it actually was quite a bit easier than I expected. And since she gets so upset when she has accidents in her crate, I felt pretty good about doing it. It just makes it easier on her. She is moving around in her crate a bit...but still not able to do anything with her back legs. They just hang there, stiff. But they tremble a bit when she is lying down. Is that a good sign? I take her back to the vet on Tuesday for a checkup, to see how things are progressing. I don't mind graphic, by the way. I'll do anything to keep her happy and comfortable. Thank you all, know there is a special place in Heaven for all of you. What big, kind, caring hearts you have....taking the time to encourage me and keep my spirits up so I can take care of my Bop.
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KimK
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Need some answers, encouragement

Post by KimK »

Hello all, it's been 12 traumatic days since I found Haley down....with good days and not so good. Haley pretty much spends 24/7 in her crate, she's not too happy about it though. She cries for me to pick her up, which I try to keep to a minimum. I do have some concerns though, and I've read as many threads here as I could and can't seem to find the answers. Her rear legs, which are the paralyzed ones, are getting very stiff. Should I put her in a warm bath a couple times a day and gently move them? I go back to my vet on Tuesday, but I don't want to wait that long if I can be helping her. Her legs tremble and shake though, is that a good sign, that some messages are getting through to the muscles? Also, she doesn't wag her tail, or even move it. Is that normal? Even when I express her urine (I've read that it's, her tail, is supposed to go up?!?). No more diarrhea, thank goodness. But now she seems to want to pee in her crate if I leave her for more than 3 hours. When I express her, she seems to empty her bladder, and I don't feel that it's retaining anything. Should I be worried about a UTI? It doesn't seem dark, or smell bad, like a UTI. I wonder if she is just "mad" at me for leaving her! I've had no more bad experiences with friends or co-workers, for the most part they are incredibly supportive. Also, should I ask the vet about holistic meds, or accupuncture when I go on Tuesday? Or should I wait till her 6 weeks of "crate rest" is over? Questions, questions....I have a million and one of them. Thanks for being so tolerant. Once again, thank you all for your advice and encouragement, you don't know how much you have helped. My undying gratitude to you all!
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CarolC
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Post by CarolC »

Hi Kim,

I only have time for the stiff legs question. Exercise should be approved by your vet, but here is what I would ask the vet if it's OK to do.

While your dog is lying quietly on her side, you can bicycle her hind legs one at a time through the full range of motion. This is called passive range of motion (PROM). It does not involve bearing weight or resistance. Since she is a small dog with not much weight to hold her in place while your work, brace her by holding her thigh with one hand while you bicycle the knee with the other, then brace her by holding her waist/hips with one hand while you bicycle the whole leg from the hip joint. The idea is to exercise the legs without disturbing the back. You are right, you do not want her to stiffen up or develop contractures. If that happens, it will be hard for her to walk after her neurological status improves. You may have to pinch/squeeze/massage the back of her knee to get it to bend at first.
DD on Cape Cod
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Post by DD on Cape Cod »

Hi Kim,

Yes, as Carol said, please put a call in to your Vet this morning so you can get an answer before the weekend. Ask about the Passive Range of Motion exercises.

Also ask about warm (not hot) moist heat packs--the kind you heat up in the microwave. Make sure they are not too hot. You can also make a warm pack with a warm wet towel--or facecloth size for the Bop. Our Physical Therapist has us put the warm packs on the muscles for 5 to 10 minutes prior to doing the PROM--this will help send blood flow to the muscles and make it easier and more comfortable for Haley when you do the ROM exercises. You may also want to do passive ROM on the front legs, to keep them limber since she is on crate rest. Start very gently at first and move slowly.

Acupuncture: I found this VERY helpful for Max, but he was not on crate rest, so I can't answer the part about whether it's okay to move Haley to go to appointments.

Question for the Forum: When a dog is on Crate rest, is it advisable to move her for appointments?

Urine: Others with experience with this will be able to answer your questions. But it is not likely she is having accidents in her crate because she is 'mad' at you, there is probably a physical reason.

Yes, by all means, if your Vet is open to holistic treatment and acupuncture, do ask her/him. If you find that your vet isn't open, or is neutral (they say something like "Well, it can't hurt"), you may need to do some research on your own, and make some calls to local practitioners to get info.

Do you have a friend who does Reiki that you can ask to show you how? There are courses you can take eventurally, but right now you can do some things even before you take a course.

Something YOU can do: Sit quietly with or near Haley. Visualize the energy flowing thru her spine, warm red energy flowing from her head all the way down to the tip of her tail.
If white light energy feels right, visualize that. Hold your hands slightly ABOVE her body (1/2 inch or 1 inch, not touching her body), and starting at her head, move your hands all the way down to her tail. Visualize that you are moving warm, healing energy through her spine.
You may or may not feel warmth or tingling in your hands. Keep visualizing the energy flow, and keep moving it through her body.
When you feel ready to end the sessions, sit quietly with Haley for a few moments. Visualize her strong Vital Force. Visualize her as her happy self and moving about. Tell her what you want to say.

You may need to wait until the strict crate rest is completed before you start any spinal/back massage--others may be able to answer that better.

You are doing a great job, Kim. Remember on the tough days to take one day at a time and breathe deeply. Tell yourself that tomorrow is another day, you and Haley will get through this.

Dori
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pmilner
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HaleyBop 2/11 conservative

Post by pmilner »

Kim, it really is way too soon to begin *any* PT/massage on Haley. Too much risk that she will turn a bit too much and cause the vertebrae to press on the bad disc that is in the process of healing. As CarolC said the back is not to be disturbed. The most important thing right now is crate rest to try and prevent permanent paralysis.

With conservative treatment, usually at the 4 week period when the dog has been off all pain meds and tapered off the steroids for a week and there is no observation of pain, then with the vet's blessing, only the most gentle and least aggressive of the passive PT is performed.
http://www.dodgerslist.com/lit/Massage% ... rcises.htm

So for right now, no PT, no warm baths.

Dori's idea of just laying a warm compress on Haley's legs would help with circulation and be soothing. Put a cup of raw rice in a sock and tie the end. Micro wave for 1-2 minutes. Test heat by putting in the crook of your arm that it's not too hot. Wrap sock in a towel and place near Haley's legs.

Acupuncture can be used now. It's good for not only pain but also nerve stimulation/regeneration. Just transport Haley in her crate. Pad it up a bit with rolled up blanket or towels so there is no jostling on the drive to the vet.

With thirst generated by steroids, and Haley drinking more, you may have to express her every two hours. Haley doesn't have bladder control she is not peeing, her bladder is overflowing. So until she's off steroids you may have to express a bit more often.

UTI's can show observable symptoms and sometimes nothing, that is why a urinalysis should be taken, especially since you are reporting overflowing.

Legs trembling and shaking hard to assess right now what that means. The fact that the muscles are firing and moving is a sort of exercise in itself. The tail going up may happen during poops, I don't know that it's related to expressing pee.
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Paula Milner
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Dachsie IVDD Care FAQ:
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cshell
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Muffyn's Progress

Post by cshell »

Hello everyone! I am still praying for HaleyBop, but wanted to share a little good new with all. Muffyn has shown really good signs of recovery for the last two weeks. She has actually stood alone for a few seconds at a time (while diapering) then wobbles and sits down. Most of the time her feet are flat on the floor as in a normal position. Of I am still being VERY careful even though she has no pain, for fear of a set-back. We have our vet appt. in an hour and tomorrow is her last 1/2 predisome pill. I just hope she drops some of the weigh gained during this month. KimK...hang in there!!! :)
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CarolC
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Post by CarolC »

http://www.dcavm.org/07nov.html | [color=navy]Natasha Olby Vet. M.B. Ph.D. Diplomate ACVIM (Neurology)[/color] wrote: Conservative treatment for both TL and cervical discs
Dogs should be strictly cage confined in a crate for a minimum of 2 weeks, taken out to urinate and defecate 3 - 4 times a day and at that time, passive range of motion exercises done on both legs. After 2 weeks, the amount of controlled exercise the dog can do when it is taken out can be slowly increased, with the dog on a leash and walking only. *** If improvement is seen after 2 weeks, this should be followed by a further 2 weeks rest, and a gradual increase in exercise between the fifth through eighth week.
http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/navc/2005/SAE/225.pdf?LA=1 | [color=navy]Loretta Bubenik DVM, MS DACVS[/color] wrote:
Conservative Management The most important part of conservative management for any animal suffering from disk herniation is strict confinement for 4-6 weeks. The purpose of confinement is to prevent further herniation of disk material into the spinal canal *** Nonambulatory animals require special care to prevent the development of further problems. Down animals are prone to decubidal ulcer formation and fecal and urine scald. These animals should be kept in a well-padded, clean area. . They should be routinely monitored for fecal and urine soiling and be cleaned when necessary. Bladder function is monitored carefully. Animals that can not consciously urinate (dogs in the grade III or higher category) will require urinary bladder expression at least three times daily. Passive range of motion activity for joints and limb massages are important to help maintain muscle tone, joint range of motion, and to help prevent pressure sore formation.

http://www.ourdds.org/pdf/Dachshund%20Owners%20Handbook.pdf | [color=navy]Disabled Dachshund Society[/color] wrote: Massage therapy can benefit a disabled dog, but as with any form of home-based treatment, you should check with your veterinarian before starting. There is little chance of harming your pet when the massage is performed correctly and with the proper precautions. *** Passive Range of Motion (PROM) and is performed by laying the dog on its side and guiding the limb through the movements of walking. Make sure that you support the limb and never force any movements.
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CarolC
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Post by CarolC »

DD on Cape Cod wrote:Question for the Forum: When a dog is on Crate rest, is it advisable to move her for appointments?
If it's a vet appointment you don't have much choice. A top-opening kennel is ideal for a paralyzed dog, you have better control putting them in and taking them out. I don't know if they make one big enough for your cocker, but you can unscrew the top of a regular airline kennel and put your dog in and then screw it back together. It's usually just 6 or 8 wingnuts. Thick padding in the bottom will make the ride smoother. You might put something on your car seat to level it before you carry the crate out. You can test it with the crate empty to see if it rides level. Hope this helps.
DD on Cape Cod
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Post by DD on Cape Cod »

Hi Carol C,

Sorry for any confusion--I was asking re: whether it was advisable to move Haley for appts--other than regular Vet appts--in case Kim wanted to pursue acupuncture. (My Max has not been confined to crate rest, so I felt someone else would better answer that.) Thanks for the helpful info about the top open crate!
Dori
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