DM german shepherd don't know what to do

[marksoreco]

I have a German Shepherd, Robbie, with DM, and I'm at a loss how to take care of him. We got him a good wheelchair, but we have great trouble in getting him in/out of it. He was not originally our dog, and he's always been extremely sensitive about anyone touching his paws and backside. Now it's even worse, and he growls/snarls and tries to bite when we handle him and try and get him in the wheelchair. His DM has progressed to where he can only drag himself, and he's getting wounds on his ankles from dragging over our concrete patio. Now a lot of the time he can't get off his bed to relieve himself.

I don't know if we should have him put down, it's hard because he's still alert and healthy other than the DM. Does anyone have any ideas?

[critters]

Bobbie has a DMer and will probably be along in awhile. In the meantime, you might search this bb for more DM info.

Oh, how VERY well I know the kind that are too stubborn for their own good...

[CarolC]

There is a support group for DM, if you are not already a member. Perhaps someone there will have dealt with the handling issue.

http://www.mzjf.com/main.htm

That is a tough situation, you have to be able to work with him. Have you tried treats? What about bits of that wafer-thin sliced ham from the lunch meat section of the supermarket?

Do you know how his groomer usually handles him when she brushes him out or trims his nails or expesses his anals? She may be using a muzzle. Would you be willing to ask the vet to suggest some kind of medication to mellow him out right now? There is something called DAP, Dog Appeasing Pheromone, which is a scent that calms them down. Do you know anyone that does Tellington Touch that could desensitize him? It's a great idea but it might take time you do not have. Possibly as the condition progresses he will have less feeling in the hindquarters and may not react so strongly.

I'm not sure there is an answer here. What kind of wheelchair is it? It is very frustrating that you already spent a sum of money to buy a good cart, and it turns out you are having trouble with this particular dog cooperating, which is not your fault at all. There is a brand of cart that might be easier to get him into...in his case it might be a lifesaver, but you've already bought one and even if you get an easier one, there will still be other hands-on procedures he will need to submit to.

http://www.enablingpets.com/id30.html

I think realistically speaking, either he is going to have to cooperate with you or you really will not have any good options. Right now you need to treat the wounds on his feet and he needs to let you. As his condition progresses you will need to express his bladder, which is a hands on procedure involving squeezing his abdomen. You will have to express his bowel and clean him. You may need to put a male doggie diaper on him and change it.



If he won't let you and in your judgment it is too stressful for him because of the way he feels about it, it is not your fault. I'm sorry you are in this position where you are willing to help him in any way you can.

[Bobbie]

I'm not sure there are any good answers for you, but I'd like to invite you to join our Yahoo group, DM Dogs. Someone might have some insight. I know touch-sensitive dogs are hard to handle with carts but I don't know how people have solved the problem, if they have.

[marksoreco]

Thanks for your responses. I'll check in to the support groups.

The wheelchair is a DoggonWheels chair, I think it's pretty good quality. He hasn't been to a groomer, although we used to be able to bathe him, now we really can't because of his reactions to handling. He'll still let us pet him and stuff but he gets upset easily. I found a Tellington Touch contact not too far away, i'll try contacting her.

[CarolC]

Doggon' is nice. There are 2 ways to put a dog in a Doggon' cart. You can attach the nylon saddle to the cart first and then lift his hindquarters and drop his hind legs through it. Or you can slip the nylon saddle onto the dog and then clip it to the cart. It's a bit of fuss either way if he doesn't like to be bothered, however if it bothers him more to have his hind feet lifted off the ground, he might like it better if you put the saddle on him first and hold him in a standing position, then bring the shafts of the cart around him and attach it. You've probably tried it both ways already, I only mention it on the small chance you haven't.

[ancona]

Hi, have you tried chiropractory and or acpuncture??

How about pain relievers??

Is it spondylosis??

Sandi
Mom to a disabled dachshund

[gsdkiah]

Our 12 year old German Shepherd was diagnosed with DM a month ago. We started her last week on an aggressive
combination treatment of Veterinary Orthopedic Manipulation, Acupuncture and Cold Laser Therapy. She had 6 cold laser treatments in 3 days with the VOM done once the first day and once the third day, accupuncture done once each day and the cold laser therapy done twice each day separated by at least 1.5 hours. She will go in next week for two treatments a day for two days and the following week for two treatments on one day.
She was at the point of dragging her back end, taking a few steps and falling. After the first treatment she was not falling as much and walking better. She just finished her 3rd day and she is walking much better, she still swings her butt occassionally and she is a bit wobbly, but she is getting around much better. I will update this after she gets through week 2. If this treatment works, we are told we should see much improvement by the end of the 3rd week.
We bought a Walkin Wheels cart for her. We found that the best part is the rear leg loops and the carrying straps put together. You can use those separately to guide the dog and help hold their rear up. You connect the carrying straps to the rear leg loops and then just put each rear leg through a loop and you hold onto the straps, The Vet techs saw them and were recommending them to other clients. We tried the rear harness but it was much more difficult and messy.
You can but the loops and carrying straps separate from the cart.

For more info on VOM and Cold Laser therapy, you can go to www.vomtech.com
The cold laser therapy is fairly new for DM treatment, but so far it looks like the combination is helping her. We will see how much better she gets and if the results continue. I will post more later in her treatment, but wanted to give you an option

[gsdkiah]

Just wanted to post an update. After 3 weeks of treatment, which was 6 days and 12 treatments, Annika is now walking with a bit of a wobble now and then. She can climb up stairs using each leg independently. She has started to try and run a bit, but that is short burst. She can go down stairs 90% of the time without losing control of her back legs. She is still a bit wobbly and when she tries to go fast on tile, she sometimes loses her back legs, but gets herself up quickly. The Vet says she believes she is 60% improved from when she went in 3 weeks ago with almost no back leg control. The treatments will continue, one set next week and then we go to a 3 week schedule unless she shows signs of regression at which time we will do a treatment and reassess. We are so happy with the progress and her ability to do things on her own again.

[CarolC]

Hi gsdkiah,

I kind of think you can't argue with success, even when you don't understand it. I believe you when you say that your German shepherd is a lot better, but I've been reading the link about VOM and I don't see how the VOM could help DM directly. DM has been compared to MS, the outer layer of the nerves degenerates and the nerves cannot carry signals as well. VOM is like very fine tuned chiropractic from what your link said, apparently better than normal chiropractic. I am a great, great believer in the benefits of chiropractic and physical therapy manipulations for humans, I am hypermobile and heaven knows I've had enough of these treatments for my own back and I wouldn't spend the money if they didn't help. However, I do not see how they would help a dog whose nerves are losing the outer layer. They would help adjust all the little misadjustments in the spine and joints perhaps, and you'd see improvement that way, but you still have nerves that are losing the outer layer.

They say physical therapy itself can slow the progression of DM. Nobody has ever told me how this works. I do remember reading an article (Neurological Canine Rehabilitation, by L.L. McCauley) which gave this important fact while discussing passive range of motion and joint mobilization:

Nerves are like muscles in that if you "don't use them, you lose them". Not that the nerve fibers themselves disappear, but several studies have shown that the number of mitochondria inside the nucleus are increased in athletes and decreased in inactive people. Remember the mitochondria are the "power house" of the cell and if diminished may decrease the nerves ability to transmit messages correctly or quickly.

I guess I'm asking, do you really think the VOM adjustments had a lot to do with the improvement? Could it have been other types of PT that contributed? Actually, are they sure this is DM? Many large dogs at 12 years old would be likely to lose mobility without having DM. Please forgive me when I am asking so many questions, I am really making a sincere inquiry, I have not heard of VOM until your post. I bookmarked it to share with others who might need to know about it.

There are plenty of people here who know more about DM than I do, maybe they can explain it where I don't understand.

[gsdkiah]

Hi,
She definitely has DM. The VOM treatment is just one part of the treatment to keep her spine aligned and is not the reason for her improvement. She has been undergoing VOM for a year, about once a month due to spinal issues and bladder sleep incontinence which went away with the continued VOM treatments. The real key for the DM is the Cold Laser Therapy treatment. She is at the Vet as I type this receivng a combo of VOM, cold laser and accupuncture. She also has arthritis in her rear hips so she is receiving the accupuncture along with the Cold Laser and VOM treatment. She received very intense Cold Laser the first week with 6 treatments in 3 days, followed by 4 treatments in 2 days the following week and 2 treatments in one day the third week. She then went to one treatment(VOM, accupuncture, Cold laser) the 4th week. She had a 2 week break where she had no regression and is actually building up some of the rear leg muscle that atrophied during the initial few weeks. After her treatment today, she will now go three weeks before the next treatment. With the combination of treatments, we have also taken her off Deramaxx, which she was taking for her arthritis. She has not had any pain, however we do keep it handy in case she does overexert too many days in a row.

She still has some wobble and an occassional misstep, but it has gotten more rare each day as her rear legs get stronger. She was chasing our 9 year old shepherd around this weekend. She still bunny hop runs if she gets going too fast and has to be reminded to walk down the stairs and not try to run, but overall she has been slowly getting back to herself. We do use the wheelchair to take her for long walks as we are trying to build that muscle back. We live near the top of a small mountain and the ups and downs of the walk can wear her out if we take her too far, so to be safe, we use the wheels, but we let her walk freely in it with just a leg loop loosely set on each rear leg in case we take her too far and she starts getting weak, we can give her some assistance.

Since this is the first time I have dealt with this disease with one of my Shepherds, I have no idea how effective the treatment will be long term, but so far she is walking on her own, climbing up and down stairs, chasing her brother around and is very happay again, so that is all one can ask.

[Bobbie]

Has your dog had a DNA test for DM? An MRI to rule out other conditions?

[gsdkiah]

We did not do a DNA test. We had 3 differrent Vets examine her and do the diagnostics without an MRI or DNA test. All three independently agreed it was DM and we should not waste the money on the tests. She had every classic symptom of DM. If you follow the progression for DM from catching a hind paw to the crossed legs and then to to loss of the hind legs she exhibited all of them. I just had never experiened DM and did not know the symptoms until she was at the crossed leg into loss of hind legs (which was 3 days total time). Her first vet had just been through it with his German Shepherd, who was also 12 when she showed the beginning signs.
The treatment is working, but we have to be careful with her. She is not all the way back and probably never will be. She can walk and control each of her hind legs independently. She can go up and down stairs and she can run a little, but then she loses the control to her hind legs. She has to be exercised almost every day, but it has to be very controlled and we cannot over exercise her as she has not built back up all the muscle and endurance she had.

She is getting her treatments every 3 weeks now, however if she starts showing regression, we take her in and have her checked and then get a treatment if necessary. She still needs her cart to go for walks of any length. The vet who is treating her is now treating some more dogs with DM, so we should be able to see if more on the treatments success and long term viability. Our thoughts were with a german shephed who is 12 1/2 years old, every week we get with her walking and being a normal older dog are bonus weeks.

I will

[Bobbie]

I think you should suggest to your vet that doing the DNA test would at least be minimal confirmation (insufficient without an MRI as proof, though) that the dogs he is treating have DM. DM ordinarily does not go from scuffing a foot to crossing legs in three days time. It cannot be diagnosed without ruling out causes that cannot be seen without an MRI or at least CT. It's reasonable to assume something is DM but when you are trying to show that a new treatment works, it is absolutely essential that scientific standards for diagnosis are used.