Anything else we should be trying?

[Jacko's Mum]

Hi Gnasher's Mum.

I haven't had the same experience with a IVDD issue but my dog had an FCE and needed lots of rehab.

Jackson loved a small obstacle course that I created for him in the living room. the physio told me to use pieces of dowel and build up to higher pieces of wood. The first time I tried it, I lined up a pile of shoes in the hallway, so he couldn't cheat and strategically dropped dog treats between them and he loved it! He got to the point where I couldn't put the treats out fast enough and he was like a bull in a china shop!

I did take the physio's advice and create a proper obstacle course with pieces of wood and this became a daily game but helped him realise he had back feet and needed to lift them. My other dog would also join in and it was pretty funny to watch.

I did lots of other physio from sit stand games, puppy pilates exercises, and exercises that forced weight on his back legs.

My dog also hated the water and I used to put him in the bath, water up to his belly, on a non slip mat but I would coat a floating dog toy in peanut butter and throw it from one end of the bath to the other and he would have to turn himself around and keep himself standing. He eventually used to quiver as I put him in but then would get right into it. It got to the point where he would bring me the dog toy to play in the bath - he would still quiver though!

Getting boots was the best thing I did for his back feet and it seemed to stimulate some nerve/reflex that helped him to walk. It was like the weight (although really light) gtold his brain he had feet and to move them. He also got some independence and this helped him to be a lot happier, and I could then take him to the park.

Lots of massage helped enormously too. I imagine their muscles and joints get pretty tired from not being used in the manner they were intended.

I'm not sure if any of that was useful, but if you would like any more ideas/details about any exercises we did, please let me know.

Regards,

Lee

[Gnasher]

Thanks Lee

All brilliant ideas - but all in the future for us I am afriad as although he has feeling in his feet and can just about take his weight on his legs I am still having real trouble getting him to use them. I am having a down few days at the moment as he has even stopped using his better leg when he is on the sling. It is just so difficult as he has tons of potential but it is so difficult to get him to do anything at all some days

[GabrielDeafBlindPupFamily]

This is a rollercoaster we ride, isn't it?

I just have to say, YOUR BOY IS MY NEW OLD GUY'S TWIN! Unbelievable. My guy is 14 y.o. maybe spaniel, maybe border collie, who knows what, that arrived here in April. To hear your's is collie terrier gives me more food for thought!

[Gnasher]

Awwww - I would love to see a photo of your guy

Collie/terrier is only my guess as his history is not known but he is very collie in some of his habits and also has terrier attitude at times and a real terrier type bark.

Definitely a roller coaster ride he is breaking my heart tonight as he got really grumpy when I tried to help him to move to the extent that I had to just leave him to calm down for a while before trying again

[Jacko's Mum]

It is really hard and all dogs are different but, to give you some hope, I wish I could show you Jackson 12 months ago versus today - because he had absolutely nothing - no weight bearing, no movement, no feeling in his paws, couldn't even wag his tail. Now he is running around (albeit wonky) chasing stuff left right and centre. He got new toys for xmas and is playing with them now (#### squeaker!). I thought it was hopeless and I too went through a rollercoaster ride but was stunned at how well he came through.

Sounds like the exercises I recommended are too challenging at this stage but with a loving Mum,as you are, there is still a lot that can be done at this stage. I can send you a list of all the really basic stuff I did until he could take any weight (which was at least a 8 weeks after the injury) but it sounds like the pro's have probably already given them to you.

Have you tried gentle massage (no manipulation of any kind) a few times each day. The physio said to me, imagine you started walking on your hands all day, then how sore would you be. That may explain why you are struggling to get him to do anything at the moment. Jackson' injury was further down his body yet his neck would get so sore. He would shut his eyes like he was trying to sleep and the vet explained that it is likely he had a huge headache from the tension in his neck and other parts of his body.

Sounds like you are in good hands with the help you have sought- I can't tell you how many down days I had too.

We're always here online though! Look after yourself.

[CarolC]

I would coat a floating dog toy in peanut butter and throw it from one end of the bath to the other

Getting boots was the best thing I did for his back feet and it seemed to stimulate some nerve/reflex that helped him to walk. It was like the weight (although really light) gtold his brain he had feet and to move them.

I believe it. With my dog, whenever I would "tail walk" her (she is 6 lbs) it seemed like that grasp on the tail made her aware of her hind end and she took better steps, so in some ways tail walking was not the best, but it did give some kind of stimulus we didn't have otherwise. I donated a swim diaper for a dog at the PT place my dog goes to (because the therapist said she kept messing in the treadmill) and the therapist reported she was walking better with the diaper. They weren't sure if it was the extra weight or what, but on something like that, you're just happy that it works!

[Gnasher]

We have continued to have a rough couple of weeks. Gnasher started to resent any attempt to move his strongest back leg into the right position when he was trying to move and even got so stressed with his treadmilling we had to stop that too we have taken a break from everything and he has some new medication in case if nerve pain which he has been on for a few days now. He seems less stressed on the new medication but has now decided the best way to avoid his legs hurting is to just not do anything at all

We are just being patient and trying some gentle exercises with lots of help and tons of food when he does make an effort in the hope he will realise any pain has now gone and he can try again

[CarolC]

I wonder what could be bothering him. Did the vet try flexing his knee, hip, etc, to see if he could find pain anywhere? A break sounds like a good idea, but it must frustrating.

[Gnasher]

I can't actually find what is hurting him - when he is relaxed he will let me flex his leg in any way at all - it just seems to hurt him when he tries to use it so specialist vet has suggested it could be nerve pain and that is what the new drugs are for.

He does not seem to be in any pain at all now - but stil does not want to move he just lays and barks when he wants something and waits for someone to come and move him

[CarolC]

Oh geez...well, you don't know, it could even been the weather causing aches he doesn't normally have or something. I've had a couple of instances with smaller dogs where they reacted like they were in terrible pain, and I rushed them to the vet and it turned out to be nothing. One would not walk on her leg and yelped, the vet couldn't find anything wrong, then she began walking fine in the examining room. The vet decided she was being a drama queen. I didn't know dogs did that. I had a situation with Katie during PT when she began to not want to do her exercises, and it turned out her neck was bothering her, which is not where she was injured, but I guess she strains it a lot trying to balance with her hindquarters being weaker. We had to lay off PT for a while but it corrected itself and afterward I knew what to look for. I hope this goes away for you. I'm glad the medication is working, maybe now he just needs to realize it isn't going to hurt if he moves. Gnasher reminds me of my old terrier in his personality. When he made up his mind, it was made up and he really dug in. He barked for me to do everying, I spent many months at his beck and call but what could I do? I think you need to take yourself out for a treat, lunch, a shopping trip, something--you more than deserve it! Hang in there!

[critters]

He does not seem to be in any pain at all now - but stil does not want to move he just lays and barks when he wants something and waits for someone to come and move him

Could it be learned helplessness?

[Gnasher]

I did not think it could be learned helplessness as it came on fairly suddenly from some effort to none and he would not even make the effort for things like the doorbell ringing which usually got him moving at top speed

Despite a blood test in November saying his thyroid levels were fine and the vet assuring me on 21st December his thyroid was not the problem I was not utterly convinced and have again increased the level of thyroid medication he is on and that seems to be having a bit of an effect. Last night I took him back to my local vets and insisted on a thyroid test being done and sent to Jean Dodds in the US as I am not convinced my local vets have truly got to the bottom of his thyroid issues. Just a matter of waiting for the results now.

He is nowhere near back to where he was in mid December energy wise - but is making a little more effort now so things are not looking quite so bad.

I was due to see the distant specialist next Monday - I have spoken to her a few times and she agrees with all I am doing and we will make a decision later in the week about whether to go or postpone this visit.

[Jacko's Mum]

Sounds like you are having a tough time. Jackson got this thing where all his senses would get overloaded and his legs would go really stiff and to move them was quite painful and made him reluctant to do stuff.

The physio showed me a heap of exercises to help unlock them which made a big difference. Sounds unlikely that is the same for you, but you never know....

Thoughts are with you.

[Gnasher]

Still really struggling to get Gnasher to do anything at all

He is happier on his new medication thyroid tests have come back normal so we are just having to keep an eye on things and see how he goes. I have spoken to specialist vet a few times and we are going back down to see her on Monday 25th jan.

[CarolC]

When they did the surgery to stabilize his spine, did they put in any rods or pins or screws? I wonder about doing some imaging of the surgical site to be sure all the hardware is still where it's supposed to be...sometimes things shift or move. I think I might try regular pain meds (not necessarily for nerve pain) to see if you can at least get him more comfortable while you figure this out...probably have to consult the vet to see if he can take anything else while he's on the nerve pain medicine. Please let me know what you find out.