FCE

[Rookies mom]

Lee,
It sounds like your dog is not as bad as Rookie. He is paralyzed in both hind legs. That is wonderful if he has bladder control !! I have been keeping daily notes on his progress although some days it is not much. My son is still expressing him and the last two days it has become quite hard to do. The muscles are really firming back up. We are always hopeful that these are good signs but I am prepared to keep him going even if he improves no further so anything from here will be a plus!! Especially the bladder!

It is becoming easier to get a pain response and even though his left leg is a little stiff, every day I notice that he can move them more and more. When I hold his leg in my hand he pulls it back out, even the stiff one. On day 1 he had no pain response at all.

He is as active as ever, digging in the yard(never thought I would be happy to see that!) and wanting to sniff everything and make his rounds. This morning as he ate I put his back legs under him and with only one finger on his left thigh he stayed up for a few moments. I think that it is mostly back muscles working at this point but it could be a start. We are anxiously awaiting his dog cart. I am hopeful someday we won't need it but it will help either way.

My vet wants to put him on steroids but she wants to wait and see if he gets his bladder control back first. I don't know if it will be beneficial at this point or not.

Everyone is right, that first week was awful, and even though it didn't seem so at the time, it does get better!

Keep me posted as well, we can get through this together!! I could not have done it without the help from everyone here!!

Mia, Rookies mom

[Rookies mom]

Rookie update!!

Two days away from the two week mark. Rookie can now "stand" for several moments more often now. After awhile he goes back down but every time he stays up longer than the time before. His legs shake a little bit after working with him and the last couple of days he has been whining during expressing (feeling coming back?). The bowels are being emptied more all at one time instead of a few here and there. Don't know if that means anything or not, just a difference in what it has been. Sometimes expressing can be really difficult and others easier, we haven't figured out why yet, he just "seems to" tense up and resist it at times. Still anxiously waiting for his cart to get here!

Best wishes to everyone!!
Mia

[CarolC]

The standing sounds really good! Woohoo!!! The whining during expressing could be feeling as you say, or you might want to keep an eye on him for any sign of a urine infection. You can usually spot them by an odor to the urine or a dark color, however some bladder infections do not show those signs. The only reason I mention it is that if he hasn't been emptying completely every time and it's been 2 weeks, you'd be about "due" for an infection. That's about how long it took my dog to get one even though I was expressing her. It turned out I wasn't expressing as well as I thought, I was conscientious but it is something that gets better with practice. Anyway...antibiotics took care of it for my dog and she was fine, and by the time she was off the medication, I was better at expressing. If you ever have any question whether your dog might be getting an infection, you can collect a urine sample and take it to the vet. I express my dog into a sterilized pyrex bowl. I read a tip on collecting urine with a large dog that suggested holding a big soup ladle under the dog while he piddles.

[Rookies mom]

Carol,
He is already on antibiotics as a preventative. I will be checking with the vet regardless. We changed his position a little and he didn't whine the last time we expressed him so I think that was the problem. He is a very large and was in very good shape before this happened and he has/had really good muscle tone. We wonder if that is making it so difficult to express him, I don't know. He really seems to want to go on his own but he gets out there and sniffs and then just stands there. He was taught the command "go pee" as a puppy and I am hoping that will be helpful in this process. If the bladder function is going to come back does it happen suddenly or gradually?

[T. revor Loudbone]

Thank you for that. I talked with my vet and he and the emergency vet agreed that steroids for FCE isn't necessarily important. They both said he wouldn't hurt bu that there isn't enough research to say for certain that it would help. They both agreed that steroids are a better treatment for disc problems. I've gone with the experts.

Great news since my last post. If you saw Trevor today, you probably would still feel heartbroken for him but since I have seen it from the start I am able to celebrate the slight improvements. He is up and moving around with a boot but he doesn't need the sling anymore ( I carry it on our walks just in case). He is walking a bit farther everday. I am seeing him lift his bad leg a little. This may be involuntary but it is exciting.

I am hoping to see a quick and full recovery but I am staying patient.

If your dog has recently been diagnosed with FCE and you are coming across this thread, take the following words to heart: It won't get any worse after the 1st 24 hours. This is what I am seeing. After a lot of tears in the 1st 24 hours, I am seeing nothing but improvement! It will get better.

[Sean]

My Choc. Lab was diagnosed with FCE on April 5th. He lost his back legs. He never lost deep pain sensation. He is staying at a Animal Hospital (Iowa State) getting therapy twice a day (M-F). Unfortunately the hospital is 3 hours away and it is just killing me.. I am not sure it is beneficial for him to be away from home. He is only 4 years old. He loves the little buggy and we have noticed tale movement in the last couple of days. Unfortunately he can't maintain it. I have also seen his legs move while on the buggy but in the pool today I didn't see any movement. The big problem right now is getting him to express himself. The doctor can't seem to get him to do it. She is very concerned about this right now. She sticks a cathater up there once a day to empty his bladder. His abdominal muscles are so strong and my vet is just a little thing (I kind of wonder if she is strong enough). She has given him things to help relax things down there that haven't seemed to help. He gets quite upset when she touches him down there. I have read other posts on here and am grateful for the advice. They are going to let me take him home this weekend to see if being at home will relax him more and I can express him. My local vet said she would be around to help if I needed to use the catheter.

Everyone in here has been such a huge help. I was seriously thinking about putting him down on my drive home because my dog can't get expressed and it has only been 8 days. He has so much fun on that buggy and his spirit is so strong. I can't wait for him to get home. I am really thinking about just taking him back for therapy 2-3 times a week and keeping him home in hopes that he will be more comfortable and heal better.

[Dean]

I've found that when expressing Keeka, it empties best just after a bowel motion. It's also easier to express her when the bladder is NOT at its fullest. Expressing her when her bladder is large, it is difficult to get the flow started and it often comes as a trickle. I have to stop and start a couple of times to get it going. Trying to spread pressure evenly across/around the bladder (but still in the downstream direction) and avoiding pressing as a point or ridge helps lots and seems safer. I express her standing up and attempt to use just her own weight to express. But often in needs a little more pressure, and I push her back on my chest a little too.

Keekas condition hasn't changed much over the last year. But I'd imagine that, if the bladder is becoming harder to express over a period of time and the dog shows discomfort or resists, it might actually be a good sign. AIUI it is virtually impossible to express a dog that has full bladder control, unless with a catheter.

[critters]

My Choc. Lab was diagnosed with FCE on April 5th. He lost his back legs. He never lost deep pain sensation. He is staying at a Animal Hospital (Iowa State) getting therapy twice a day (M-F). Unfortunately the hospital is 3 hours away and it is just killing me.. I am not sure it is beneficial for him to be away from home. He is only 4 years old. He loves the little buggy and we have noticed tale movement in the last couple of days. Unfortunately he can't maintain it. I have also seen his legs move while on the buggy but in the pool today I didn't see any movement. The big problem right now is getting him to express himself. The doctor can't seem to get him to do it. She is very concerned about this right now. She sticks a cathater up there once a day to empty his bladder. His abdominal muscles are so strong and my vet is just a little thing (I kind of wonder if she is strong enough). She has given him things to help relax things down there that haven't seemed to help. He gets quite upset when she touches him down there. I have read other posts on here and am grateful for the advice. They are going to let me take him home this weekend to see if being at home will relax him more and I can express him. My local vet said she would be around to help if I needed to use the catheter.

Everyone in here has been such a huge help. I was seriously thinking about putting him down on my drive home because my dog can't get expressed and it has only been 8 days. He has so much fun on that buggy and his spirit is so strong. I can't wait for him to get home. I am really thinking about just taking him back for therapy 2-3 times a week and keeping him home in hopes that he will be more comfortable and heal better.

Sean. Make sure you see the sticky post down on the incontinence bb; people have used caths at home, too.

What is he taking to relax his bladder? My Buddy, who had a spastic bladder, was helped a lot by phenoxybenzamine but was made MUCH worse, and harder to express, by bethanecol (sp?).

[Sean]

Thanks Dean and Critters,

I have been reading all kinds of information on expressing him. I can't wait to get him home this weekend and trying some of the techniques. Hopefully he will be a little more relaxed to let me help him. I will let you know how it goes.

[CarolC]

Hi Sean, what medication is it? I am glad your vet is helpful. Actually, one of the moderators here (BethT) with a medium large male dog catheterized him for a year and a half because she had trouble expressing. Another moderator, Joe Murphy's Dad, also catheterized Murphy because he was difficult to express. Some dogs are just more technically difficult than others. Your vet can give you the gear and show you how to catheterize your dog at home if he doesn't relax after he gets home. It would be nice if the problem is simply being uptight in a hospital environment, but it can also relate to the location of the FCE. A spinal incident in the lower back is more likely to result in a loose urinary sphincter, while one higher up may cause a tight sphincter. My dog had a tight sphincter and was difficult to express after her injury, even though she is small and I was plenty strong enough, though it did improve with time.

[Sean]

Hi CarolC,
Thanks for the info on other people. Did Beth's dog finally come around after a year and half. The vets were pessimistic about me doing catheters more than a couple of months and if he didn't come around there was some surgery they could do that would move the bladder to the side with a valve. I don't think I want to take that route ever. It is nice to hear some people were able to use catheters longer. I think I can catheter him at home. They are sending everything home with me to do it if I can't get him to express. My vet said she would be around if I needed help.
The pill she had him on was nothing spectacular. She said it was a mild valium to try to relax his abdomin so it would be easier on him. They would give it to him about a half hour before we tried. It didn't really help. I just can't wait to get him home and give him the love and care he deserves instead of being locked in a crate 20 hours a day. Don't get me wrong, it is great he gets therapy there but he doesn't get any love or attention. It's kind of like lets get him hooked up and then lets start walking. No playing ball with him or anything. Sorry, don't mean to be so negative.
We are going to try acupuncture tomorrow and I talked to may Chiropractor and he said he would take a look at him this weekend and see if we can get him adjusted.
He is so freakin happy in that cart if it wasn't for this expressing thing I wouldn't be so stressed out about the whole situation. My co-workers said I should be happy it isn't the other extreme (peeing anywhere and everywhere). I don't know if this is any better.
I will keep you posted.

[critters]

Hi CarolC,
Thanks for the info on other people. Did Beth's dog finally come around after a year and half. The vets were pessimistic about me doing catheters more than a couple of months and if he didn't come around there was some surgery they could do that would move the bladder to the side with a valve. I don't think I want to take that route ever. We did that with Buddy, the spasti bladder boy. It wasn't so bad, except that those vets were over 50 miles away and were AWFUL.

It is nice to hear some people were able to use catheters longer. I think I can catheter him at home. They are sending everything home with me to do it if I can't get him to express. My vet said she would be around if I needed help.
The pill she had him on was nothing spectacular. She said it was a mild valium to try to relax his abdomin so it would be easier on him. They would give it to him about a half hour before we tried. It didn't really help. I just can't wait to get him home and give him the love and care he deserves instead of being locked in a crate 20 hours a day. Don't get me wrong, it is great he gets therapy there but he doesn't get any love or attention. It's kind of like lets get him hooked up and then lets start walking. No playing ball with him or anything. Sorry, don't mean to be so negative.
We are going to try acupuncture tomorrow and I talked to may Chiropractor and he said he would take a look at him this weekend and see if we can get him adjusted.
He is so freakin happy in that cart if it wasn't for this expressing thing I wouldn't be so stressed out about the whole situation. My co-workers said I should be happy it isn't the other extreme (peeing anywhere and everywhere). I don't know if this is any better. I quite agree. Koi, currently my worst spinal cord injured boy, is leaky, and, frankly, I'm glad. You can't live if you can't pee.


I will keep you posted.

[CarolC]

Hi CarolC,
Thanks for the info on other people. Did Beth's dog finally come around after a year and half.

I just sent her a note to see if she can come tell you the story. If not, I will find one of her past messages.

The vets were pessimistic about me doing catheters more than a couple of months and if he didn't come around there was some surgery they could do that would move the bladder to the side with a valve. I don't think I want to take that route ever. It is nice to hear some people were able to use catheters longer. I think I can catheter him at home. They are sending everything home with me to do it if I can't get him to express. My vet said she would be around if I needed help.

I would give it some time. My dog's physical therapist says you need to give it at least 3 months to see if bladder control will return, and 6 months to be sure. That being said, we do have one person here whose dog began to get bladder control at 10 months, so I would not give up even after 6 months. My own dog was very hard to express at first. I will never forget the time it took 23 minutes to express her one Sunday morning when I was so tired and just wanted to go back to bed. But at about the 5-month point she was to the place where she still could not urinate by herself, but she could help when I expressed her. It was partial recovery of bladder control and it made all the difference. Before that, I had to squeeze very firmly and it took a long time to get her to urinate. Now I do not have to squeeze very hard and it takes about 30 seconds. Honestly, the norm for FCE is improvement, I am hopeful you will not have this problem longterm. My dog had a really severe injury, a spinal fracture (broken back) where the two parts of the spine separated and moved in different directions, pinching the spinal cord in between. My dog's physical therapist says 85% of dogs with FCE will recover, and of the 15% that do not, either the owner gave up or the dog gave up. When they say the owner gave up, that is because some owners just are unable to provide the nursing care needed (expressing, exercising, etc.) and some will give up because they are given a negative prognosis, which really goes against the statistics. When they say the dog gave up, this is due to things like the stress of vet visits, an upset atmosphere at home, etc. That is why it is recommended to stay positive in front of your dog. If you have to get upset, do it someplace else, not in front of him. I am glad you are bringing him home, that will be good for his outlook. Hopefully they will give you a list of PT exercises to do with him, PT is very important with FCE.

The pill she had him on was nothing spectacular. She said it was a mild valium to try to relax his abdomin so it would be easier on him. They would give it to him about a half hour before we tried. It didn't really help. I just can't wait to get him home and give him the love and care he deserves instead of being locked in a crate 20 hours a day. Don't get me wrong, it is great he gets therapy there but he doesn't get any love or attention. It's kind of like lets get him hooked up and then lets start walking. No playing ball with him or anything. Sorry, don't mean to be so negative.
We are going to try acupuncture tomorrow and I talked to may Chiropractor and he said he would take a look at him this weekend and see if we can get him adjusted.
He is so freakin happy in that cart if it wasn't for this expressing thing I wouldn't be so stressed out about the whole situation. My co-workers said I should be happy it isn't the other extreme (peeing anywhere and everywhere). I don't know if this is any better.
I have one of each, a constant dribbler and one needing expressing. Mostly I like the situation of expressing better. The other way is a lot of

I will keep you posted.

[BethT]

Hi Sean,

I was catheterizing Waffles for the first year after his spinal cord surgery. His bladder was so tight it was just impossible for me to do it and I'm a pretty strong person. I would catheterize Waffles 2 times a day. He was on a preventative antibiotic for the whole year. Of course you have to be as sterile as possible when doing it. Waffles had one bladder infection at the end of that year. By then I had been practicing enough that I was finally able to express his bladder so then I no longer used the catheter. This May it will be 6 years that Waffles has been paralyzed. In the past 6 months I was having some difficulty expressing him again. My vet had Waffles on phenoxybenzamine. That helped for only a couple of weeks. Then we tried valium, 5mg two times a day. That really helped. He is still on it. I remember how upsetting it was in the beginning when I couldn't express him. You will eventually figure it out. Just keep trying it. It is great to have the catheter as a back up while you are learning. Please let me know if I can help you in anyway.

Beth

[Sean]

Beth,

Thanks for the help. I did my first catheter at the hospital today. I don't think I will have a problem with it except holding him down. He doesn't like it very much (can't say I blame him).
I just got him home about an hour ago. He was so happy to be home. We went for a nice walk and now he is resting on the couch. It is so nice to have my buddy home where he belongs.
Question for you or anyone else reading. I am worried he is going to run around in the house and drag his legs everywhere. Do you let him do that?? I have all ceramic tile where he is allowed to go so there would be little friction. I have to work 8 hours a day and I don't want him traveling all over dragging himself. I was thinking about leaving him in one room on my bed but I am afraid he may try to get off. I bought some cushions for him to lay on but I know when I got home from work when he wasn't paralized I would find him sleeping in my bed. I know this is going to be a trial and error but any past experience would be great.
Thanks