dog with IDD gnawing at back paralyzed legs

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Melissa Rutigliano
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dog with IDD gnawing at back paralyzed legs

Post by Melissa Rutigliano »

I was wondering if anyone could help me. My dog has intevertebral disc disease and has been "paralyzed" in his hind legs for over a year now. Yesterday, he started gnawing so much at his hind legs that he made himself bleed. I am curious as to why he was doing that and what he might have been feeling back there. He does not have feeling, so there was nothing on the surface. I thnk it was something internal because of his condition. Is anyone familiar with this?
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Re: dog with IDD gnawing at back paralyzed legs

Post by Bobbie »

It isn't uncommon and there is a drug you can give, Gabapentin, to prevent it. But in the meantime make sure he can't do it. Keep him in the cart or with an e collar as dogs have chewed their own feet off.

It is believed to be some kind of sensation like pins and needles that they feel although they can't feel the pain of chewing.
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CarolC
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Re: dog with IDD gnawing at back paralyzed legs

Post by CarolC »

Melissa, did you get the medication? How is he doing? Yes, it is internal.
Melissa Rutigliano
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Re: dog with IDD gnawing at back paralyzed legs

Post by Melissa Rutigliano »

No, I have not gotten any medication yet and don't intend to. I may take him to the vet today. He's not gnawing on it anymore, I'm just curious as to why he was.His leg is bandaged now Because he was licking the wound so much. I know it is internal and feels like pins and needles but what is it exactly? What is going on back there?
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CarolC
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Re: dog with IDD gnawing at back paralyzed legs

Post by CarolC »

Hey Melissa. :) This is not uncommon. This is a phase some dogs go though following paralysis. It can take months for nerves to regenerate. On this board we've seen visible improvements for up to 2 years and small improvements continuing after that. It sounds pretty clear to me, at least, and I'm not a vet but I've seen this a lot on this board with a lot of dogs, that your dog does have feeling back there. Just because a dog is totally paralyzed and has no deep pain sensation at the time of injury, or 3 months later or 6 months later, does not mean he never will. Nerves regenerate, but they do it very slowly. I cannot emphasize enough how important it is to put a bucket collar on him to prevent chewing and get him on the gabapentin. It is a miracle, before gabapentin we had nothing for these dogs that were going through this chewing phase. On this board we have seen several dogs chew their toes off, and I have heard of 2 dogs, one here and one on another board, who did so much damage before the owner discovered it (self-mutilation) that they had to be put to sleep. It can happen quickly, while you are out doing errands, during the night while you are asleep. You come home or wake up to blood everywhere because even though it does not seem sensible to us, the dog will keep chewing because the pins and needles or abnormal feeling they are feeling in a part of their body( while the nerves are recovering) is so annoying to them. The theory is that it is like when you fall asleep on your arm, then wake up and it is all tingly. This is something like what they think the dogs are feeling. I can give you links to some other cases where this happened, but I have to go to work right now so will try to do it at lunch about 3pm.
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CarolC
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Re: dog with IDD gnawing at back paralyzed legs

Post by CarolC »

http://handicappedpet.net/helppets/view ... 21&t=12506 (they could not save this dog)

http://handicappedpet.net/helppets/view ... =10&t=2336 (this was before they started prescribing gabapentin--repeated bouts of chewing, almost severed his foot one time)
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critters
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Re: dog with IDD gnawing at back paralyzed legs

Post by critters »

My Buddy, a spinal cord injured cat, would bite himself, or me, if I got in the way, when he got to this stage. I repeat the recommendation for gabapentin because it was so very helpful for Buddy.
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Re: dog with IDD gnawing at back paralyzed legs

Post by jacobsmomubo »

I need help. I have a four year old chi-poo who was perfectly normal on Monday, then woke up Tuesday with her back legs paralyzed. We rushed her to the vet who then rushed us to a surgical facility for emergency surgery. On Thursday, the vet called and said that Gidget didn't have deep pain sensation anymore, and it was a 50/50 chance of her ever walking again. I have no earthly idea what went wrong Monday night. I am just crushed for her. She was a little ball of energy who is now confined to a crate for healing. It is now Friday, 8 days after we brought her home, and there is no indication that she feels anything. How long should it be before we notice a tail wag, or some type sign she is healing? I really need some support right now...
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Re: dog with IDD gnawing at back paralyzed legs

Post by CarolC »

:banner:

I'm sorry to hear your dog had a disk episode. Poodles are one of the breeds in which it is more common. The good news is you did the right thing. You got her straight to the vet and they did surgery promptly. This increases the likelihood that she will regain function. Doing surgery within 24 hours of losing deep pain is best, and dogs who go into surgery with deep pain still intact have an even better chance of recovering function.

I am not a vet but after they do surgery, there is swelling around the area and it does take time to go down through rest and medication. Some dogs without deep pain sensation will recover deep pain in the weeks (or even months) following surgery. It sounds like she still had deep pain going into surgery and they said she lost it afterward. Hopefully this is related to the swelling. Eight days is still considered very early days, so don't give up. There is no specific timeline, every case is different.

The best way to get the swelling down the fastest (which is what you want) is to follow the crate rest guideline strictly. In the crate 24/7, only out to potty. It is natural to want to hold her and comfort her and let her sit with you or sleep with you as she normally would, but now is not the time for that, even if it goes against your instincts. She needs complete rest for that surgery to heal and the swelling to go down, so this is a time for tough love. Crate rest will probably be for several weeks, and it needs to be strict for the best results.

If she is super active or hyper or high strung and can't settle down, you may want to talk to the vet about some meds to calm her. I have to do that with Dolly (long haired chi x Papillon?) when a disk in her neck acts up and she needs crate rest or she simply can't relax and rest, she just can't.

If you are having any issues with keeping her clean, bladder issues, or anything else while on crate rest, please don't hesistate to ask. Chances are someone here has been through the same thing. :D
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Re: dog with IDD gnawing at back paralyzed legs

Post by Soffe »

I have a little shorkie and she's been paralyzed in her back legs for 4 years now and all of a sudden she started licking and biting at her paws and almost bit her one foot off. We almost had to amputate it but our vet gave us this honey salve and we have to keep both of them wrapped? She actually looks like she's getting feelings back. I'm going to check with my vet on this medicine. We are going to try some therapy with her.
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Re: dog with IDD gnawing at back paralyzed legs

Post by CarolC »

Soffe wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 10:20 am I have a little shorkie and she's been paralyzed in her back legs for 4 years now and all of a sudden she started licking and biting at her paws and almost bit her one foot off. We almost had to amputate it but our vet gave us this honey salve and we have to keep both of them wrapped? She actually looks like she's getting feelings back. I'm going to check with my vet on this medicine. We are going to try some therapy with her.
Hi Soffe,

I'm glad you're going to get medication for your dog, who is chewing her feet. Your dog is the second dog I have seen here that suddenly began biting her feet after 4 years, out of the blue. I am giving you a link to the other dog, who was posted in the Rainbow Bridge forum, because the family put their dog down because she mutilated herself. It was extremely sad, after taking care of her for 4 years, and then that happened. Here is the post, but just be prepared, because it was not a happy ending for that dog, but it shows how important it can be, if you start seeing it.

viewtopic.php?p=64984#p64984

There was a time on this forum in the early 2000's when there seemed to be no treatment for this problem. Dogs chewed and injured themselves, sometimes repeatedly. Then they started using gabapentin (Neurontin), and it made all the difference. Finally there was something that would work! More recently they have also used pregabalin (Lyrica) for the same thing, and it also works. (Be sure you get the veterinary formula, there is an ingredient in the human formula of gabapentin that is unsafe for dogs.) It is possible your vet does not know about using gabapentin for nerves tingling, because I imagine some vets do not see many paralyzed dogs. But it is likely your vet will have the med in stock because they use it for other things, too, so you should be able to get it. (If they give you the liquid kind of gabapentin, I find I am able to squirt it into my dog's canned food and she eats it like she doesn't know it's there, so it is easy to give.)

If it was my dog, I would absolutely put the dog in a cone collar (aka Elizabethan collar, bucket collar, lampshade collar) immediately, until you can get the medication started. The collar alone will not be enough to ensure safety, dogs can and do get out of them. Wraps will not provide much protection, either, dogs can chew them off. You an use bitter apple or Yuk-2-E to make the bandage taste bad, but that won't work either if the dog is determined to get at her feet. I am sorry to write kind of a upsetting post when you just joined the forum, but this is something where the stakes are so high, it can potentially mean life or death for a dog.

I would also be careful about wrapping the feet and be sure the bandages are not tight. I have a dog named Dolly who was rescued by Best Friends. She is paralyzed and her hind legs were scraped up from dragging them on the concrete. She was taken to the vet and the vet had the foster wrapping her legs, but because the bandages were not done right, she got gangrene and had to have a leg amputated, so now she is paralyzed and 3-legged. I know of another dog (here where I live) this also happened to. She was wrapped too tight by a new vet, and she lost a leg. The reason I know about it is, the owner was then having to take her dog to physical therapy because the dog was having trouble learning to walk on 3 legs. Usually dogs do fine on 3 legs, but this dog was heavy and was having trouble, and the owner told me the hospital where that vet worked was paying for the physical therapy.

I hope you can get the medication for your dog right away. Today is Thursday, hopefully you can get it before the weekend.

Here is a post where gabapentin was not working for one dog, so you want to keep an eye on your dog after you start the med to be sure it's working.

Here is where pregabalin was recommended for the dog when gabapentin was not working, and here is additional information about it.

On a happier note, yes, I could believe your dog's nerves are still improving after 4 years. Here is a post I wrote about my dog still improving 4 years and 10 months after her injury. :D

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11816

:welcomepigs:
Soffe
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Re: dog with IDD gnawing at back paralyzed legs

Post by Soffe »

I'm so glad I found this page. You have actually been so encouraging g to me. I have a call into my vet so hopefully she will hVe it to give me. Soffe almost bit her paw off before we caught her doing it. It got really infected and we almost had to amputate it but by the grace of Gid, it has started healing and so that is whete we are at. She's on 2 prescriptions and a allergy med and is doing better but, she has feeling and will bite at her paws if left alone. We have wraps and socks and a bag and so far we have it under control but I am with her all the time and I want her to be able to not have that wanting to bite her paws. After she heals we are having her do therapy in our pool and we will start therapy now thst we see she has feeling in her legs. It's going to be a long road but, she's our baby and we will do whatever it takes. I'm so glad that you wrote back. Thank you and I will keep up on here to help others as well. I do know that the liquid children's benadryl I give her throughout the day keeps her calm so that whatever happening to her legs it keeps her calm. She literally almost took off her paw so I'm glad I woke up in time and we are now using honey salve and it's healing nicely. Thank you again. Hope msybe others will see this and it will help
Soffe
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Re: dog with IDD gnawing at back paralyzed legs

Post by Soffe »

I'm just curious to see if with soffe the tingling and pin feeling will go away by itself. I guess time will tell.
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CarolC
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Re: dog with IDD gnawing at back paralyzed legs

Post by CarolC »

Hi Soffe,

Did she have allergies before, like a pre-existing condition? Or is the allergy medication something new for her? Did she have any history of chewing from allergies? (My 4-lb chihuahua, Olive, used to get allergies on her feet from something in the grass.)
Soffe
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Re: dog with IDD gnawing at back paralyzed legs

Post by Soffe »

Yes she does seem to have some allergy too so we are keeping her on the children's benadryl. She use to lick the air almost constantly so that has stopped and just today we got gabapentin for her to see if it helps with the paw biting. We are stating her on a one dose a day for a week to see how it works. We are still keeping socks on and making sure she doesn't get those paws with a dog bag when we have to leave her so I'm hoping this med helps.. I'm so glad I came to this forum. We could've list her when she got her paw and almost chewed it off but miraculously it has healed so now we are going to do physical therapy on her and see if she will walk again. The vet says it's very possible. We are ok either way just want her to have a good life.
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