Dog not walking 4 weeks after IVDD surgery

[rosalind50]

Hello,
My Beagle Boxer went through surgery on January 14th making it 4 weeks tomorrow. Although he has regained significant bladder control (accidents here and there but sleeps through night dry) He is not showing signs of walking. I see small movement in the tip of his tail and he can curl his tail inward (it doesn't just hang.

He went into surgery with very little deep pain on right side and some on left. He has maintained DPS in both legs now. We are doing PT three times a week along with Acupuncture and laser. At home I am doing light range of motion. The PT wants 8 weeks rest. We are halfway there but I am getting discouraged that he may not walk. He can't stand on his own but if I use a sling he can muster a few seconds...

Please chime in..

Hopeful inLos Angeles

[Bobbie]

Four weeks is still very early. I wouldn't be worrying too much yet. What does his therapist think?

My own opinion (and I'm not a professional) is that he should be using a cart, taking slow walks where it is safe to have his feet uncovered (grassy paths, sand) so that he is encouraged as on a treadmill to use his legs. Swimming also works, if there is a place you can swim (or walk as he swims). The act of walking or swimming forward engages the nerves that move the legs. My corgi (who did not have surgery and does not walk) still moves his legs as he walks in his cart or swims). It's the same concept as a treadmill but you can do it six times a day instead of three times a week.

[rosalind50]

Thank u
He is 50pounds so I would need to find a pool somewhere.I was thinking of finding a big rubber tub somewhere. I am now doing acupuncture and PT and laser. The say its too soon for water tank. Also a cart is not encouraged for a few more weeks but I will ask!

[CarolC]

If he has bladder control and deep pain sensation, you have reason to be optimistic. Recovery tends to be by a series of tiny little improvements, one at a time, instead of just standing up and walking one day. You notice this little thing he didn't do before, then you notice another little thing, small subtle changes, and it won't necessarily be every day. Gradually all the little improvements add up. It's all so exciting watching the improvement, it keeps you going even through it's hard work. It sounds like right now you are taking a 50-lb dog out to the yard several times a day, which isn't easy, but I don't think it's going to be forever, the signs are in your favor, I am really impressed about the bladder control. Hang in there. Sometimes it helps to write down each little improvement so you can see the progress and look back on days when you are tired and see, "Well, he couldn't do that 2 weeks ago, he is getting better".

[rosalind50]

Thank u Carol C...

U are so right about this. I started a week to week progress today and it went like this:

Weeks 1-2 post surgery
No movement in lower body
completely incontinent 24/7

Week 3
Dry nights/ no more overnight diapers
Some tiny stretches in legs to paws
some accidents during day/no apparent bowel control

Week 4
Started Acupuncture and Physical Therapy
less of a hump on his back
tiny reaction in legs when web of paw pinched
some weight bearing ability when placed on legs and I had to adjust paws properly (still knuckling)
some accidents during day/seems to maybe have some bowel control;not sure
I know this is going to be a long haul and I am investing so much time and money in it..I feel grateful I can invest the time as I am low on work... and the money...it will come! He is worth it.

[mud99]

4 weeks is still very early - we saw lots of recovery in the first 3 months, then it slowed but we still see recovery even a year later.

[rosalind50]

Hello,

I read some of your posts mudd99 about Frenchie. That pic of him with those straight legs after surgery is what I've been looking at for almost 6 weeks. When did your dog start to bend them? He sits like this and I toe pinch to bend them, which he does but I don't think he has much sensation. It's hard to imagine he will ever get feeling back at this point. He does have bladder control and seems to poo outside mostly but has occasional accidents. I don't know if he can FEEL anything.
I can stand him up andplace his legs under him and he will eatthat way. They told me to stand him as much as possible. 6 weeks is half of three minths so I am trying to be positive but he is so unhappy seeing the rest of his pack run around...I just can't imagine him like this forever.

They said he had deep pain sensation when we left hospital 6 weeks ago. The Vet at CARE said he did too. Can deep pain diminish? He is doing 3x a week PT and acupuncture. So expensive but I feel like I need to.

I know I need to be strong and positive but I am now on week six and it feels like he is not progressing much from week 4 except he can bear his weight a little when I place him and I did see him wag his tail the other day a few times but hasn't since.

Thx for support!

[mud99]

From what you described, it sounds pretty normal to me.

The spinal cord heals in roughly the opposite order it is damaged - first with return of some bladder and muscle control, and much later with the return of feeling and "proprioception" - which is being able to know where their limbs are in space.

You described some partial return of bladder control - that shows recovery.
Stiff and being able to bear weight, even for a moment, is a very good thing. That means the spinal cord is connected enough that they can use their muscles. What you don't want is jello legs.

The toe pinch for deep pain is tricky. Despite having regained nearly all of of his functions, our Frenchie still barely reacts to it. You have to either do it really hard, or dig a fingernail in a little to get him to react. If he is on pain meds he won't respond at all.

The stiffness lasted quite a while. When they don't know where their limbs are, they will stiffen them and hold them like that constantly. On top of that, they get cramps and general weakness from being on crate rest, so it's an uphill battle getting them walking again. I would definitely recommend the myofascial release for stiffness - ask about it in PT.

If you can send me a message with your email address, i'll have my wife send over some videos of our Frenchie's weekly PT sessions - you can see his recovery week over week to get a better idea.

[rosalind50]

Thank u so much..

Honestly this site and Dodgerslist has literally gotten me through these last 6 weeks. This whole incident with Dewy has restored my faith in humankind as I was feeling pretty down about it at times prior. So for that it has been somewhat of a blessing. I don't think anyone understands how hard this is and how time consuming and heart wrenching it can be unless you experience it firsthand.

I will privately message you my email. Everything you said makes sense but getting any of this info from our PT is difficult especially the way you articulated it.

Thx so muh for getting back to me so soon....

Rosalind

[Syd's Mom]

My heart goes out to you as I read about your dogs. My 3 year old cocker spaniel mix, Syd, also had IVDD surgery 4 weeks ago. They said he had deep pain response prior to surgery but none on the right side 2 weeks post op. At 3 weeks we started doing PT/hydrotherapy, laser and TENS therapy twice a week. He is not walking and sits also with straight stiff legs. We are trying to stay optimistic but are worried. I have a question about bladder control. Syd has not been incontinent but we have needed to express his bladder every 6 hours or so. When we stand him up in his favorite place to urinate, prior to his injury, he doesn't go, just stands there (with our support). Is this a bad sign that his isn't regaining control of his bladder? The surgeon said the tail wagging and bladder control would be the first things that would return about 2 weeks post op. He is wagging his tail with stim. Any thoughts on this and how I could encourage him to urinate would be much appreciated. I wish you all the luck in the world for your dog's speedy recovery.

[rosalind50]

Hello Syd's Mom,

I am sorry about Sid....I truly understand.

Have you heard of Dodgerslist? Seriously, they have gotten me through some tough days. And they have so much knowledge to impart. I go between these two sites to get advise and strength to carry on. The women/moderators on that site are very compassionate and have heard much about this.

Do u have a sling? Do u walk him around a bit to see if he will find another spot that will motivate him to urinate?

Also, my dog has some wagging, sort of odd 'trying to wag' responses from acupuncture; or maybe it's passage of time.

What do PT's say? Some people have had dogs come back after six months! Dewy is 50 lb's and today I injured my knee going down stairs with him with a sling when he pulled hard forward. Does he have deep pain on left side?

Try Dodgerslist for more info...

Between these two sites we will get through this..hang in there...

[Syd's Mom]

Thank you so much for your response. I have not heard of Dodgerslist, I will check out, I just happened to stumble on to this site a few days ago and have found much information. We have a sling for Syd but couldn't figure out how he could urinate with it on and still support his rear. I purchased a Walking Wheels harness that provides access for urination. I lead him to his favorite spots but he doesn't seem to know what to do. I tried to encourage him to go by starting to express him and he does dribble a little. I am not sure if this will just progress and I should be more patient or if there is something else I should be doing to help help or if this permanent.

The tail wagging really picked up when the therapist showed me where to stimulate the tail. She said every dog has a different spot, some at the base of tail, Syd's spot is at the tip of the tail, the last 1/2 inch, you roll it between your fingers and he just wags for quite a while. Occasionally, he does it on his own. Have you tried that?

PT is optimistic but we have just completed our fourth visit so they feel it is too early to tell. We see the Surgeon for our final post op visit this week. He has maintained deep pain pre and post on the left side. The right side, where the defect was mostly, he lost after surgery at the 2 week post op, the surgeon seemed less optimistic at that time and said this process would take several months to see marked improvement. This is so scary for us, is amazing how life throws curve balls. We are trying to balance our work schedules/ financial resources to make this work. We are committed and love Syd very much.

OMgosh, I hear you about your knees, my back is killing me! Dewy is a big boy! Syd is only 15 pounds. It is hard to slow these guys down especially going down stairs. I will look up Dodgerslist! I really appreciate your time and support. Can you let me know how Dewy is progressing? You hang in there too, it will all be worth it, especially if they can walk again.

Linda (Syd's Mom)

[rosalind50]

Hello all,

As I am doing Dewy's PT lately I have noticed a cracking sound sometimes . Th ePT said it may be arthritis from the paralysis. Also his right knee has been coming out of it's groove. This may have been pre-existing since he sometimes skipped on his right leg. Does anyone have any knowledge about this and how I can help him?

Also, is 3 times a week PT and acupuncture too much at this time? H is ending week 6. His right leg is much weaker and not as stiff as his left. His right leg knuckles much more.

Also, the PT said he would have a small setback after the Prednisone taper which was last week. I have noticed a lot more weakness on right side.

[CarolC]

I'd probably scale back the PT to 2 sessions a week. Acupuncture seems to help some dogs more than others, so I would try to observe whether it really seems to be helping. Some people report acupuncture helped at first and then they quit seeing benefits at a point, so I would watch for that. The key to PT is not doing a bunch in the beginning, so much as continuing steady PT over time. He is not going to be able to do more than the nerves are ready for, whether you do one session a week or four. If money is really an issue, one session a week would also be good. The therapist will be coaching you on what exercises to do with him at home. Ask yourself how much of the PT he is getting at appointments can be done at home. If he is getting swimming or time on the underwater treadmill, there is no substitute for that, or at least it would be difficult to swim him in a backyard pool this time of year.

It is not unusual for them to be weaker on one side.

I have a dog with luxating patellas and she corrects it herself. When the kneecap slips she lifts her foot until it reorients itself. I wonder if there is a way you could flex his leg to imitate that and let it self-correct. I don't know but I'll bet the therapist can tell you.

[rosalind50]

Hello,

Dewy is now in week 9 of recovery.

He is not walking but swings his legs when I sling him.
His tail wags but a little stiff still.
He has bladder control..not sure bowel
His legs are still pretty stiff but not as since I work on them
He tries really hard to get up..he really wants to stand

I feel like he is depressed
He used to love to go outside and now goes out to pee and poo and wants to lie down inside again..not all the time but I've noticed a change in his spirit. He also started licking and biting at his rear paws. I started giving him gabapentin as he may have nerve pain (according to vet) or he is anxious. Also put him on flea meds to rule out fleas.. He does sem to have more feeling in his paws but it comes and goes it seems. He is not knuckling so much on his right side which is his weaker side. He used to just drag it while the left swung forward but it seems to have more forward mobility.

I need hope.

He has completed 4 weeks of pT and acupuncture 3 times a week (laser too)

Our new plan is hydrotherapy
I am looking at a place in Calabasas and VCA
My surgeon was surprised he had not started it as he can stand (when I stand him up for a bit..he can stand for e very long time if he leans on me)
I feel like my life has been put on hold for the last 8.5 weeks

Any inspiration is welcomed

He's and angel I just don't want him to be miserable..