Hi
I'm new here. I have an elderly dog nearly 14year old (in a few weeks). Her back end is going, she can't stand or sit she has to be laid down or stood up in a doggy cart. she has a cart, she used originally with using back legs but now she just drags her back legs along so I put them in the stirrups.
I've had to start using nappies for her and I've noticed she's got sores in the inside of top of her back legs where the nappies fasten and where harness is against leg. They're nearly healed now but how can I prevent them?
If I leave her out of cart and nappies so they heal she isn't getting any exercise, if I put her in cart it seems to rub again.
I'm also looking to see if there is any kind of spinal support wrap to put round her back in front of her back end as its wasting so much I worry about her back snapping when I'm trying to lift her off the floor as she tries to get up with her front end but her back end stays on ground unless you get your hands under it and keep it supported in a standing position to get her a clean nappy back on.
I'm also wondering how long its fair to keep her like this as she also has been diagnosed with cataracts so is also going blind. I'm hoping to celebrate this last birthday with her as we're only a few weeks off and I've got her presents, but feel I may need to decide to have her PTS before she passed away naturally at the rate her back end is wasting away.
Mentally she is still very bright I use a dog bike trailer to take her out for a ride every day in the fresh air and try and get her to go in garden with her cart by dropping tasty treats along the garden path, she also likes playing in a ball pool pit scrambling over the balls on her tummy sniffing out treats hidden under the balls and has loads of the interactive dog puzzles that she enjoys doing daily too.
Does anyone else have a dog in similar position?
Thanks
KT
pressure sores from carts and dog nappies
Re: pressure sores from carts and dog nappies
Hi,
I'm hoping Bobbie will see this post and reply. I mostly have questions. Are the nappies disposable or denim or what kind are they? How long is she normally in the cart? I think Bobbie knows how long they can be in a cart before they need a break, which is why I'm hoping she'll post.
Personally I don't think I'd be worried about a spinal wrap. I've never heard of a paralyzed dog's back snapping while being lifted. As far as I know that would only be a risk if the dog has bone cancer eroding the vertebrae, which does not sound like the case here. They do make a back brace (for dachshunds) but it is not widely used.
http://www.lilbackbracer.com/
There are a number of good harnesses that might help you control the lifting of both front and rear, such as some of the ones here. It sounds like a good harness would be helpful.
http://www.handicappedpets.com/walkin-l ... ses-slings
If she is still very bright and interested in things, and you are able to continue the excellent care you've been giving her, it sounds like she is still happy and maybe the physical decline does not bother her too much from her perspective.
Is she a fairly large dog? This video may give some ideas.
I'm hoping Bobbie will see this post and reply. I mostly have questions. Are the nappies disposable or denim or what kind are they? How long is she normally in the cart? I think Bobbie knows how long they can be in a cart before they need a break, which is why I'm hoping she'll post.
Personally I don't think I'd be worried about a spinal wrap. I've never heard of a paralyzed dog's back snapping while being lifted. As far as I know that would only be a risk if the dog has bone cancer eroding the vertebrae, which does not sound like the case here. They do make a back brace (for dachshunds) but it is not widely used.
http://www.lilbackbracer.com/
There are a number of good harnesses that might help you control the lifting of both front and rear, such as some of the ones here. It sounds like a good harness would be helpful.
http://www.handicappedpets.com/walkin-l ... ses-slings
If she is still very bright and interested in things, and you are able to continue the excellent care you've been giving her, it sounds like she is still happy and maybe the physical decline does not bother her too much from her perspective.
Is she a fairly large dog? This video may give some ideas.
Re: pressure sores from carts and dog nappies
Hi
She was always around 20kg but she has lost some weight..She's 23" tall lab x whippet (I think) or that's what she looks most like. She was from a local rescue 13 years ago!
As she is nearly blind now too she will only walk round the garden where she knows everything and its winter here (UK) so if she will go out she may spend about 15-20 mins at most pottering up and down path following her treat toy then want to come in...When its warmer she'll stay out longer in garden if I do but I usually split her time between her laying on her K9 bed or she likes to lie in the ball pool pit with the balls sniffing out treats that I hide under all the balls! ..so she's still spend no longer than 20 mins in cart as its tiring for her.
The nappies are disposable ones.
I'm not sure how to put pics up?
She was always around 20kg but she has lost some weight..She's 23" tall lab x whippet (I think) or that's what she looks most like. She was from a local rescue 13 years ago!
As she is nearly blind now too she will only walk round the garden where she knows everything and its winter here (UK) so if she will go out she may spend about 15-20 mins at most pottering up and down path following her treat toy then want to come in...When its warmer she'll stay out longer in garden if I do but I usually split her time between her laying on her K9 bed or she likes to lie in the ball pool pit with the balls sniffing out treats that I hide under all the balls! ..so she's still spend no longer than 20 mins in cart as its tiring for her.
The nappies are disposable ones.
I'm not sure how to put pics up?
Re: pressure sores from carts and dog nappies
If she isn't in the cart long that's probably not causing the sores but fake sheepskin seat belt covers make good cart seat padding.
Make sure the diaper isn't too tight and isn't left on too long, and use a barrier cream to prevent sores.
There is a good quality of life scale at Scout's House ( http://www.scoutshouse.com/wp-content/u ... -Time3.pdf ) which may help you with decisions. The way I like to use it is to do the score, then do it once a week or so (initially more like every three months, then once a month, then once a week) and when the score is too low or takes a nose dive, it's likely time. Photos taken at each time can also be helpful.
Make sure the diaper isn't too tight and isn't left on too long, and use a barrier cream to prevent sores.
There is a good quality of life scale at Scout's House ( http://www.scoutshouse.com/wp-content/u ... -Time3.pdf ) which may help you with decisions. The way I like to use it is to do the score, then do it once a week or so (initially more like every three months, then once a month, then once a week) and when the score is too low or takes a nose dive, it's likely time. Photos taken at each time can also be helpful.
Bobbie Mayer
"Corgis on Wheels: Understanding and Caring for the Special Needs of Corgis with Degenerative Myelopathy or DIsk Disease available now!
http://www.corgiaid.org/cart/corgisonwheels
"Corgis on Wheels: Understanding and Caring for the Special Needs of Corgis with Degenerative Myelopathy or DIsk Disease available now!
http://www.corgiaid.org/cart/corgisonwheels
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slshepherds
- Moderator
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Re: pressure sores from carts and dog nappies
Hi
I'm Joanne and I have 4 paralyzed dogs, and many years ago had a Lab GSD mix who sounds very similar to your gal. Her name was Bonnie and she gradually lost use of her hindlimbs as she aged. She got her cart when she was 16 yrs old and happily pottered round (ok ran like a crazy thing trying to catch the squirrels in the yard) until she passed away aged 19.
From what you are describing I'm wondering if your pups nappy is too tight? What size do you use? If the tabs make the elastic too tight you could try using some adhesive tape to extend the tab length. Also what make of cart do you have? As Bobbie mentioned using sheepskin as a padding works well for carts that have solid rings or leg loops.
Regarding the muscle wasting,while it may be concerning to look at, your gals spine won't break unless there is a is a problem with her bones. Even then ... Carl, my paraplegic Lab is so muscle wasted that you can see almost every bone behind his spinal cord injury site and my fingers almost touch when I put them round his vertebrae. He also has a spinal tumour (benign) that has eaten away a lot of one vertebrae and it has not fractured in the 6 years it has been there.
Quality of life is big thing for me. As Bonnie aged I started a diary and also developed my own quality of life checklist. It contained all the things Bonnie liked (e.g. chasing squirrels, barking at the postman, sleeping), all the things that were necessary for her survival (food, water, appetite) and also what I was able or not able to do for her (could I lift her, make sure she was clean and comfortable etc). When the negatives outweighed the positives then I it was time to start thing about possible euthanasia. from what you write it sounds like your pup is still engaged and enjoying life
If you are thinking about a harness to help lift your gal the best are HelpEmUp harnesses. I don't know if/how available they are in the UK. Your vet or local rehab center may be able to help out also.
Nice to hear from another Brit
regards
Joanne
I'm Joanne and I have 4 paralyzed dogs, and many years ago had a Lab GSD mix who sounds very similar to your gal. Her name was Bonnie and she gradually lost use of her hindlimbs as she aged. She got her cart when she was 16 yrs old and happily pottered round (ok ran like a crazy thing trying to catch the squirrels in the yard) until she passed away aged 19.
From what you are describing I'm wondering if your pups nappy is too tight? What size do you use? If the tabs make the elastic too tight you could try using some adhesive tape to extend the tab length. Also what make of cart do you have? As Bobbie mentioned using sheepskin as a padding works well for carts that have solid rings or leg loops.
Regarding the muscle wasting,while it may be concerning to look at, your gals spine won't break unless there is a is a problem with her bones. Even then ... Carl, my paraplegic Lab is so muscle wasted that you can see almost every bone behind his spinal cord injury site and my fingers almost touch when I put them round his vertebrae. He also has a spinal tumour (benign) that has eaten away a lot of one vertebrae and it has not fractured in the 6 years it has been there.
Quality of life is big thing for me. As Bonnie aged I started a diary and also developed my own quality of life checklist. It contained all the things Bonnie liked (e.g. chasing squirrels, barking at the postman, sleeping), all the things that were necessary for her survival (food, water, appetite) and also what I was able or not able to do for her (could I lift her, make sure she was clean and comfortable etc). When the negatives outweighed the positives then I it was time to start thing about possible euthanasia. from what you write it sounds like your pup is still engaged and enjoying life
If you are thinking about a harness to help lift your gal the best are HelpEmUp harnesses. I don't know if/how available they are in the UK. Your vet or local rehab center may be able to help out also.
regards
Joanne
Joanne
Carl, Tiny, Freckles (paralyzed Lab, mix and Red Heeler)
Sam I Am (Lymphoma, Lab)
Eli, Aoibhe, Tesla (limb deformities, GSDs and Lab mix)
Mochridhe (storage disease, GSD)
http://www.straightlegshepherds.org
http://www.paralyzeddogs.org
Carl, Tiny, Freckles (paralyzed Lab, mix and Red Heeler)
Sam I Am (Lymphoma, Lab)
Eli, Aoibhe, Tesla (limb deformities, GSDs and Lab mix)
Mochridhe (storage disease, GSD)
http://www.straightlegshepherds.org
http://www.paralyzeddogs.org
Re: pressure sores from carts and dog nappies
Disposable nappies will fit some dogs better if you put them on backward with the tapes to the back.
Re: pressure sores from carts and dog nappies
Thanks..the cart she has looks like that your black dog has but white with red on and black all terrain type tyres.
She has a nappy on all the time. She needs one one at night and I put a fleece washable nappy over the top as I sleep on an electric blanket for my back and she's always slept on the bed with me and won't settle anywhere else. She has a cushion on top of my bed so if she does wee if won't go right through to the electric blanket.
Mostly in day she's laid on sofa doing her doggy puzzles or sleeping again she needs a nappy on so she doesn't wet right through, it's a sofabed type sofa with a mattress so if she weed on it, it would go right through and they don't make these sofabed's anymore so I'd have to buy a new sofa.. don't have the money to buy new mattresses every week.
I do take it off when she goes in her cart but with our weather being bad at minute she's not being out much and its too cold for her to stay out laid on concrete or grass so it didn't matter if she had an 'accident' whilst laid out there. She can tell me if she needs to go but doesn't always give me much time so as soon as you lift her back end up she empties her bladder/bowels, so I've keeping nappies on all the time.
She is in a large nappy so there's plenty of sides to wrap round, it seems a little big on her actually. She is a little raw under her arches of back legs and no fur there. I've got some Dermacton somewhere but not sure if can use it on open wounds, but it's meant to help their fur regrow I've been using other stuff trying to get sores to heal, just got one side nice healed then relaised the other side was actually deeper than I thought.
Not sure how she's re-opening it when I'm trying to keep her laid still doing her puzzles for it to heal and she hasn't been in cart for a few days so that can't rub her either. I have been laying her on side and leaving one side of nappy open (side its sore) to try and get air to it. but if she moves then the nappy tends to fall off her and if she's done anything in it, it falls out on the floor.
Do you put your dogs on nappy pads to play on the floor when playing indoors? I do use an old picnic blanket type thing that has one waterproof side and the other thick fleece that's on the sofa to try and prevent any accidents leaking through to the sofa mattress. It just seemed easier to keep a nappy on but she's starting to get sores there all the time now.
It will be easier in summer when she can lay out on the grass and get sun and heat to her so they get chance to dry up but we're not due for weather that hot for a while yet! We've had snow as late as April before!
I'll read the photo thing later when I get back, its time for walkies as I have a young collie also whose not mobility impaired and needs a good run!
Thanks
KT
She has a nappy on all the time. She needs one one at night and I put a fleece washable nappy over the top as I sleep on an electric blanket for my back and she's always slept on the bed with me and won't settle anywhere else. She has a cushion on top of my bed so if she does wee if won't go right through to the electric blanket.
Mostly in day she's laid on sofa doing her doggy puzzles or sleeping again she needs a nappy on so she doesn't wet right through, it's a sofabed type sofa with a mattress so if she weed on it, it would go right through and they don't make these sofabed's anymore so I'd have to buy a new sofa.. don't have the money to buy new mattresses every week.
I do take it off when she goes in her cart but with our weather being bad at minute she's not being out much and its too cold for her to stay out laid on concrete or grass so it didn't matter if she had an 'accident' whilst laid out there. She can tell me if she needs to go but doesn't always give me much time so as soon as you lift her back end up she empties her bladder/bowels, so I've keeping nappies on all the time.
She is in a large nappy so there's plenty of sides to wrap round, it seems a little big on her actually. She is a little raw under her arches of back legs and no fur there. I've got some Dermacton somewhere but not sure if can use it on open wounds, but it's meant to help their fur regrow I've been using other stuff trying to get sores to heal, just got one side nice healed then relaised the other side was actually deeper than I thought.
Not sure how she's re-opening it when I'm trying to keep her laid still doing her puzzles for it to heal and she hasn't been in cart for a few days so that can't rub her either. I have been laying her on side and leaving one side of nappy open (side its sore) to try and get air to it. but if she moves then the nappy tends to fall off her and if she's done anything in it, it falls out on the floor.
Do you put your dogs on nappy pads to play on the floor when playing indoors? I do use an old picnic blanket type thing that has one waterproof side and the other thick fleece that's on the sofa to try and prevent any accidents leaking through to the sofa mattress. It just seemed easier to keep a nappy on but she's starting to get sores there all the time now.
It will be easier in summer when she can lay out on the grass and get sun and heat to her so they get chance to dry up but we're not due for weather that hot for a while yet! We've had snow as late as April before!
I'll read the photo thing later when I get back, its time for walkies as I have a young collie also whose not mobility impaired and needs a good run!
Thanks
KT
Re: How to upload pictures
Thanks I was clicking on the wrong bit thinking it was where it said img (image) or URL as sometimes you can put URL of an existing photo if its on FB or something and it will come up in the post. Does that work on here?
Re: pressure sores from carts and dog nappies
Yeah, the image tags around a URL should work though there are a couple of drawbacks. Some sites consider it hotlinking and don't like it (don't know how facebook is about that). If the photo gets removed from the other site it will not show here either. If it is your photo posted on another site you could normally rightclick it and save it to your computer, then upload it directly, or like you say you can just try the image tags and hit preview to see if it's displaying OK.
I could relate to your electric blanket, I have spent many nights (including most of this winter) with the electric heating pad on my back all night, have done for years. Your dog is kind of large for someone with a back problem to care for.
You know, if you have too much trouble because of your own physical condition, it's not your fault. We all would if we could, but some of us have physical limitations, and it's not our fault.
Here is a possible scenario. Is there a chance since the nappy is a bit loose, she is urinating and the nappy is not catching the urine at the source, so some of it is travelling on her skin and causing a rash there at the inner thigh or arch? I have a diaper dog and her diaper (nappy) has a hole in it for stools to drop out. It is not an issue for us because her stool quality is great and the stools do not soil the carpet, etc. The thing about containing stools inside a nappy for females is that there is a risk of fecal bacteria causing a urinary tract infection. I am not always sure people believe me when I say my dog's stools do not soil the carpet, so I did a video where I expressed her stools onto a clean incontinence pad and demonstrated they are leaving no trace.
http://handicappedpet.net/helppets/view ... 91&p=92518
Part of the reason I mention this is, if you leave a hole for the tail and for stools to drop out, I think you could fit the nappy more snugly and if there is any issue of urine not soaking into the diapper immediately, I think that would solve it. I'm only mentioning this because you have kind of ruled out abrasion, so now I'm wondering if it is a bit of nappy rash or urine scald, it doesn't take much to get one, I don't know.
I could relate to your electric blanket, I have spent many nights (including most of this winter) with the electric heating pad on my back all night, have done for years. Your dog is kind of large for someone with a back problem to care for.
You know, if you have too much trouble because of your own physical condition, it's not your fault. We all would if we could, but some of us have physical limitations, and it's not our fault. Here is a possible scenario. Is there a chance since the nappy is a bit loose, she is urinating and the nappy is not catching the urine at the source, so some of it is travelling on her skin and causing a rash there at the inner thigh or arch? I have a diaper dog and her diaper (nappy) has a hole in it for stools to drop out. It is not an issue for us because her stool quality is great and the stools do not soil the carpet, etc. The thing about containing stools inside a nappy for females is that there is a risk of fecal bacteria causing a urinary tract infection. I am not always sure people believe me when I say my dog's stools do not soil the carpet, so I did a video where I expressed her stools onto a clean incontinence pad and demonstrated they are leaving no trace.
http://handicappedpet.net/helppets/view ... 91&p=92518
Part of the reason I mention this is, if you leave a hole for the tail and for stools to drop out, I think you could fit the nappy more snugly and if there is any issue of urine not soaking into the diapper immediately, I think that would solve it. I'm only mentioning this because you have kind of ruled out abrasion, so now I'm wondering if it is a bit of nappy rash or urine scald, it doesn't take much to get one, I don't know.
Re: pressure sores from carts and dog nappies
She has the nappies with tail hole and yes her poo still escapes! I hadn't thought about urine burn.
I had been using a gel for deep wounds to start and that did heal the original one well. And there's some stuff looks like talc (but isn't) meant to dry the wound out that does tend to make the area look a mess after a while as it gets in the surrounding fur so have to wash it out.
I've tried sudocrem (like a nappy rash cream in UK) We haven't really had good enough weather for her to lie outside on her raised bed and get some air to it.
I noticed there's some other UK people too what products do you use on dogs for things like nappy rash etc? I'm not sure if the products would have the same name over here as in US.
We have a product called Dermacton I had some before to help her hair grow back after a minor op, but I can't remember if it can be used if there's sore's on the area.
I think my vet would not consider she had a quality of life if she couldn't walk at all, see and had constant wounds from nappy rash so I want to get these healed or at least looking better before vet is due to see her again. I think I'm definitely going to have to make a decision soon but as we're only two weeks off her birthday and I've got her presents and ordered her cake, I just want to have a special last birthday with her first.
so just need to find something that works for healing her skin quick. I heard coconut oil was good?
KT
I had been using a gel for deep wounds to start and that did heal the original one well. And there's some stuff looks like talc (but isn't) meant to dry the wound out that does tend to make the area look a mess after a while as it gets in the surrounding fur so have to wash it out.
I've tried sudocrem (like a nappy rash cream in UK) We haven't really had good enough weather for her to lie outside on her raised bed and get some air to it.
I noticed there's some other UK people too what products do you use on dogs for things like nappy rash etc? I'm not sure if the products would have the same name over here as in US.
We have a product called Dermacton I had some before to help her hair grow back after a minor op, but I can't remember if it can be used if there's sore's on the area.
I think my vet would not consider she had a quality of life if she couldn't walk at all, see and had constant wounds from nappy rash so I want to get these healed or at least looking better before vet is due to see her again. I think I'm definitely going to have to make a decision soon but as we're only two weeks off her birthday and I've got her presents and ordered her cake, I just want to have a special last birthday with her first.
so just need to find something that works for healing her skin quick. I heard coconut oil was good?
KT
Re: pressure sores from carts and dog nappies
I tried uploading and just kept getting file size too big so trying via URL
even if its too wet to play out I stand her in it indoors for a short time so she gets some time stood up and can still do some of her favourite puzzles then
She loves to lie in their ball pool pit and sniff out treats with her lil' bro.
Jay looks after his big sis Inca (Inky Tinks) as she is going blind also. Jay is 2 and half (3 in Sept), Inca will be 14 years old in a couple of weeks!
even if its too wet to play out I stand her in it indoors for a short time so she gets some time stood up and can still do some of her favourite puzzles then
She loves to lie in their ball pool pit and sniff out treats with her lil' bro.
Jay looks after his big sis Inca (Inky Tinks) as she is going blind also. Jay is 2 and half (3 in Sept), Inca will be 14 years old in a couple of weeks!
Re: pressure sores from carts and dog nappies
Something worked; I see pics! VERY cute! 
Re: pressure sores from carts and dog nappies
What a lucky dog to have so much enrichment. Few people do so much for their dogs! 
I'm glad to see the ball pool because I was picturing what you meant but I never actually saw one before. Brilliant!
I'm glad to see the ball pool because I was picturing what you meant but I never actually saw one before. Brilliant!
Re: pressure sores from carts and dog nappies
well originally it was just a Dogbag tent with balls in and she'd stand at entrance and search under the balls.
But as she got more unsteady on her legs and my puppy was growing I decided to get the biggest fabric puppy playpen I could find instead so she could lay in it to look for treats and they could both use it at same time. I got it as Jay's birthday present when he was 2 last year! You can get better idea of size here. I got it off ebay meant for large breed puppy as a playpen.
She has her own chariot too, a dog bike trailer she goes out for a ride in the fresh air every day unless its really freezing or raining heavy.
They are a bit spoilt lol... I've got her birthday hamper made up of puzzle and her favourite treats a pressie from her lil bro and got a (doggy) cake ordered and it's not until beginning of March!
But as she got more unsteady on her legs and my puppy was growing I decided to get the biggest fabric puppy playpen I could find instead so she could lay in it to look for treats and they could both use it at same time. I got it as Jay's birthday present when he was 2 last year! You can get better idea of size here. I got it off ebay meant for large breed puppy as a playpen.
She has her own chariot too, a dog bike trailer she goes out for a ride in the fresh air every day unless its really freezing or raining heavy.
They are a bit spoilt lol... I've got her birthday hamper made up of puzzle and her favourite treats a pressie from her lil bro and got a (doggy) cake ordered and it's not until beginning of March!