Paralyzed dog with bladder issues

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illusha
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Paralyzed dog with bladder issues

Post by illusha »

I will keep the background info as brief as I can. Tomorrow will be 2 weeks since the family dog suddenly got paralyzed in hind legs, went for an hour-long walk right before, then suddenly lost control of the rear. Standard Uncut Poodle, 95 lbs, 11 year old normally-healthy neutered male. Happened on the same day when my stepfather passed away and my mother was in distress. Took him to ER, then to Neurology ICU for MRI, which showed a very extensive area (T3 to L3) that was affected. "Possible causes were thought to be inflammatory disease, neoplasia, myelomalacia, or extensive infarct" (FCE).

Three neurology vets were stumped by what exactly the causes were and even $8000 later there was no definitive answer. He spent 5 days under their care in ICU (catheterized) and then was discharged home. He was given a "maybe 10% chance" of regaining function. We've read everything we had time for about FCE and Quality of Life Scales and the decision was to give him 2-3 weeks to see if he makes some notable progress. He's been taking Prednisone 20mg, which is a steroid to reduce inflammation of the spine, if that's what the cause was, also taking Prazocin 1 mg to relax urinary sphincter (4 caps BID), plus some stomach meds.

On the first day, he was completely limp on rear legs and tail, no feeling or function. Two days later, tail slowly started regaining some function. After a week, the tail can wag a little, but only a little and for a short period of time. His leg reflexes started to return within the first few days. He also started to have involuntary muscle control of rear legs, when they stretch out, it takes some force to bend them back in. I made an industrial-strength redneck-inspired PT station which suspends him in a stretcher with 4 leg holes cut out. He plants rear legs correctly, but has no control, front legs are somewhat weakened. He is able to carry weight on front legs without assistance when using a front+rear harness to walk him to the car.

Here's the hard part. BLADDER!!! When he was in ICU, he was catheterized, they removed catheter on the last day and he appeared to urinate on his own. The ICU vet wasn't able to express his bladder manually the first time, then he finally succeeded a few hours later, right before sending him home. At home, he's been leaking quite a bit, seemed to be having an almost full void. We use adult diaper pads stretched under him and often they would have a LOT of fluid in them. I consulted with Neurologist and they said that's fine since he is on Prazocin. They also said not to limit his water intake, which is increased, due to steroids. I was able to manually express him a few times, when I could not, we took him back to our local vet clinic and was catheterized again 2 days ago. They pumped out 600 mL and no UTI. Expressed ok for two days and at 5 am last night. Unable to express today. Took back to vet today, catheterized pumped out over 2 LITERS plus some leaked out before, that's nuts. And he was diagnosed with a UTI. Now it's 6 hours later and he's been whining and showing discomfort in his stretched-out belly. No leaking at all since yesterday and none today. Still unable to express.

I am about to give up, but I know how much my mother values her dog, he is the member of the family and she is convinced that he is "human". I know. But what are the options? Taking him in to get catheterized three times per day? OK, maybe doable, but that's a pain. Manual expression is either difficult or impossible. Leaking has it's own concerns that I read plenty about. How long do we make the dog suffer short-term in hopes that he makes long-term progress towards recovery and regaining function? At what point to we give up? I don't need no more QOL scales. I need human opinions please. Thank you. I am taking him back in to get catheterized now. Will check this thread when I return.
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CarolC
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Re: Paralyzed dog with bladder issues

Post by CarolC »

OK, human opinion. :) First of all, that is the neatest stretcher support I have every seen. I've never seen anything even close, it is brilliant and I will probably be showing it to other people when they come here. But back to the bladder issue. You are in the same situation so many of us have been in, where you are learning in the first days or weeks about your dog's particular incontinence, and what works best for him. In addition, he is in a recovery process and the status of his bladder can change as you go along.

You could try some different techniques of expressing, he may empty better with a different method. There are many videos at the end of this article showing various ways to do it. If the method you usually succeed with does not seem to be working on a particular day, maybe try a different method. You might also try to note if there is a relation between when he has his meds and when he is easier to express. And with male dogs, whatever position or hold you are using, be sure to hold the pressure in that position for at least 10 seconds (which is a very long time) to see if he will release. Since he has some feeling in his feet and is wagging him tail, he may be resisting you, I wouldn't be surprised if that is the case.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=16027

In addition, there is medication that can be given to improve the tone in his bladder, and it sounds like he might benefit from it since he is getting quite full and may become stretched. If the bladder becomes flaccid, it is harder to express. The medication can address that situation. It can be used in conjunction with the med that relaxes the sphincter and you may see better success.

Is he emptying his bowel? Dogs are much easier to express if the colon is empty. There are various ways you can stimulate him to empty his colon if you think he is a little backed up. Here is an article describing ways to get him to "poop on demand" if needed.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=18586

I would really think, at least right now, you might want to catheterize him at home. The vet can give you supplies, you just thread the tube up his p*nis, and that is easiest with a large dog so you are lucky. Now is a good time to learn to do that while he is on antibiotics for his UTI. (Don't feel bad about the UTI, usually the antibiotics will clear it right up.) One of our moderators here catheterized her dog at home for months until she became able to express him reliably.

All I can say is, the signs of recovery you listed sound very encouraging and I would give it time if at all possible. Yes, he is 11, but he is improving. It is more work with a large dog, but if he continues to improve then hopefully it won't be long term. It's going to be work to get him up and moving several times a day, and you're probably doing a lot of laundry and of course you are worrying endlessly, but he has been improving, and it sounds like you have a solid reason to be optimistic. If you can give it time, I would definitely do so.

Oh also, as an afterthought, because of the size of the dog, you might have some luck expressing him while you walk him by putting a belt or band under his abdomen and simply lifting up enough to put pressure on his bladder. And if he currently has regained some control, you may have better luck if you take him outside (yes, that is harder with a large dog, I know from experience) to whatever corner of the yard he is accustomed to pottying in. It may stimulate him to release his urine when he is in the right spot, smelling the smells in the yard. If he has control, he may simply be unwilling to urinate in the house, and it isn't your technique or anything you are doing. But it is encouraging if he is getting his control back to the point where he can do that, if you think about it. :)

So....I don't know if those ideas help, but they are ideas. If you can handle the physical effort involved with him, it sounds like this may all work out. If you cannot handle the physical lifting, etc., that is not your fault, you can only do what you can do. I hope it works out for you and him and your mother.
illusha
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Re: Paralyzed dog with bladder issues

Post by illusha »

Thanks for the reply and all the info, CarolC, much appreciated. Hoping to hear from a few more people perhaps. We really are near the breaking point for a number of reasons that I don't feel like discussing on a forum. A very good and caring veterinarian today, again, made it pretty clear that the dog's prognosis is poor. Same as all other vets have been telling us all along. And, yet, we still have hope.

My mother lost her husband on the same day this thing happened to the dog. I knew how badly it would affect her to euthanize the pup also. The ER vet told us about the poor prognosis, all my friends told me to "just do it", but we chose to take the few little chances we had and carried on hoping the dog will recover. Kept our mind busy for the last two weeks and a little easier to process the rest. Like full-time busy. Never realized how much it takes to care for a disabled dog. My hat goes off to all the folks on this board who take care of their needy pets. But my mother and I both have professional careers and will need to return back to work next week. We may be able to make our schedules somewhat flexible for another few weeks and be home with the dog longer in the middle of the day.

I think few would argue that living without any use of rear legs and having no control over the bladder is not a way to live for a dog who is more used to chasing tennis balls and marking certain bushes on walks. I know that some people chose to dedicate their lives to caring for permanently disabled pets, but that is not an option in our case, for variety of reasons. Mainly, my mother is getting close to retirement and isn't able to do anything physical with the 100-lb dog, it's all been me up to this point and even I hurt already (in many ways). I am only maybe 50 lbs heavier that the dog, that's on a good day, but I still managed to lift the dog in and out of the truck bed a few times by myself. Then I started looking at hoists and wheelchair lifts online and stumbled across a "Hydraulic Table Cart" from Harbor Freight (item # 69148) which has been awesome help as it's exactly level with my truck's tailgate at full lift and is built very sturdy to support up to 1000 lbs. Highly recommended. Works better than getting a hernia. Still sucks for the dog who was used to jumping into the truck bed just like that. Anyway.

So we are taking it on a day-by-day evaluation basis to determine how long to allow the dog to suffer while hoping that he will recover most of his functions. It almost feels like a daydream. But all the videos on youtube that show dogs getting better after some time sure seem encouraging. Usually it's smaller dogs. And younger. And probably less affected. It's interesting how human hope works.

I've scanned the article on expressing bladder a few days ago, I think that's how I found this forum too, I may try a couple more hybrid ideas from there tomorrow. The dog was catheterized at 8 pm tonight and vet insisted on giving him some sort of a narcotic to make his pain go away till we do it again in the morning. He is still panting now and I know that he's in pain as I write this and he looks out of the glass window on the back deck he used to sit on.

I've been expressing him while he was laying on the side. It worked fine when it worked. I think he was thankful and didn't resist on purpose. Doing it while he is laying on the side was the only way and all vets did it the same. Harness clipped to an A-frame ladder may be an option. It's just he is very uncomfortable in that harness and it hurts him even when adjusted the best way. He is a big dog. It's like holding a 300-lb man up in the air just by his thong underwear. Mental image. Moving on.

The problem with expressing last 2 days has been that he squeals in pain as soon as his stomach is compressed. Even the vet quit trying pretty quickly. I believe the pain is due to UTI. Probably the same reason he's not been "leaking" for the last couple of days. Which means his bladder is just keeping it all. And the vet still says do not limit his water. So it's a bit painful to watch it all unfold.

I will look into the medication to improve tone of his bladder. I am surprised it has not been suggested by the vet yet. We have a pretty high end care team here.

He is emptying his bowels regularly and it looks fine. That's not the issue. He's also been ultrasound'ed every time we go to the vet. But I will look into the info about "pooping on demand" tomorrow just because that sounds interesting. I will also think about the idea of walking him and letting him sniff the grass. Problem is he gets tired to the point of laying down an closing eyes after walking more than 50-100 feet with the harness. Wouldn't want him to pass out while trying to pee.

Every vet at every clinic we've been to in the last 2 weeks has been strongly against home catheterization. Everyone claims it's too prone to infection, mishandling, and requires pretty much 24/7 oversight. It would take some strong insistence for them to let us do it. And I'm not sure it's a good idea. I am also not sure that I'm even up to the task of inserting the catheter myself either. Even expressing bladder was something that I had to overcome.

I appreciate the ideas and words of encouragement. Our goal is to quickly determine if he is able to regain enough of his function to not be a burden for my mother that she can't handle. Yes, he's made *some* progress, but minimal. The Neurologist stated that some neural pathways may never recover if the nerves were starved from blood for an hour or two. That could mean permanent damage. So what if that weak tail wag and occasional leg reflex is it? What if he never able to even bear weight on rear legs? Alternatively, what if he is just taking his time, and may still be able to jump around in a few months again? I know the chances are poor. But I need to figure it out soon. Feels like rambling at this point.
illusha
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Re: Paralyzed dog with bladder issues

Post by illusha »

P.S. - thanks for the props on the redneck stretcher - had to make something quick for now - started with an idea that they built from PVC for a PT station at the Neurology ICU - photos of that one are attached below
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illusha
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Re: Paralyzed dog with bladder issues

Post by illusha »

P.P.S. - I went to check back on the dog before trying to catch a couple hours of sleep tonight - the dog was pretty passed out on those injected narcotics - but when I lightly squeezed his rear paws between my hands, just to warm them up due to poor circulation lately, he clearly lifted his head and looked at me like "what are you doing?"... that, to me, shows that he is starting to get some feeling in his rear legs in addition to pure reflexes... I think... maybe not... and does it mean he can actually walk again? I don't think anyone knows for sure... on one hand, I would hate to be transporting him 3-4 times tomorrow to get catheterized and make plans for how to handle same next week, while knowing that he's suffering every minute of it... it's tough to watch... unless he magically starts peeing on his own or let me express manually soon... we are running out of time... why can't it all be simpler? why? WHY? It Just Never Gets Any Easier!!!

A professional mentor of mine told me a while ago - "always do the right thing" - pretty simple concept...

It's DECIDING what the right thing to do is not all that easy...
illusha
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Re: Paralyzed dog with bladder issues

Post by illusha »

Going back to get catheterized this morning, 12 hours after last time, I can only imagine how much they will drain now...
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CarolC
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Re: Paralyzed dog with bladder issues

Post by CarolC »

illusha wrote: But all the videos on youtube that show dogs getting better after some time sure seem encouraging. Usually it's smaller dogs. And younger. And probably less affected.
Yes, I think there is a logical reason for that. I don't think it's so much because smaller dogs recover better per se, it's probably more because it is easier for the owners to continue working with them basically. Nobody should try to encourage another person to do more than they can physically do, and your vet(s) may be taking into account your physical abilities in addition to the assessment of the dog when they make their recommendations.

I can tell you of a woman named Karen and her mother who reminds me of your situation. I assume she was in her 60's or at least late 50's, because her mom lived with her and was 83, and her 100-lb bull mastiff went down with an FCE. He started out quadriplegic, he was down in all 4 legs. He was an older dog, too, he was 8 and the lifespan of a mastiff is 8-10. They also spent a lot of money. She bought a cart from Northern Tools to move him around. They had some complications along the way, including being unable to express and ended up catheterizing, but in the end he recovered.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5807&p=31877#p31877

This link is for all posts to read the story in order:

search.php?keywords=&terms=all&author=k ... mit=Search

The main difference I can see there is that Karen and her mom lived together, while it sounds like your mom is at another address and you are caring for him yourself.

One thing I found when my big dog went down was, I should have started pain medication (for ME) sooner. I was so "other-centered" focussed on caring for my dog and stressed out about the whole situation, I hardly paid attention to what was going on with my own pain level. I would encourage you to try some Aleve or whatever works for you.

Also, I respect your feelings about the nursing care, different people are different ways about things that might seem indelicate or make you squeamish or fearful of hurting him, or just way too "organic". I do think if you could catheterize him, it would make your life so much easier. It's not just that you can't keep taking him to the vet due to expense and inconvenience and scheduling, but even more that you can't keep doing it because you are an average size woman of a certain age, and there is so much involved with getting him on the lift and out to the truck, and then into the truck. When you arrive at the vet, I strongly recommend you go to the reception desk and tell them he is in the truck and have them send out a couple of their strong young techs to bring him in or wheel him in on a gurney. This will save you taking him from the truck into the vet yourself. And ask them to load him when they are done. Tell them you still have the task of getting him from the truck back into the house, so any help they can give you while at the vet would be greatly appreciated.

They really need to lay him on the floor at the vet, show you how to thread the catheter up his plumbing, and send you home with supplies. They need to have a heart and think about you. You sound like the kind of person who could follow hygiene instructions every bit as well as the average vet tech. The moderator we had here who I referred to earlier did this for months, and her dog was on a low dose antibiotic for much of that time so there was less worry about infection. In your case, with the signs of recovery you are seeing, I would hope it will not be that long. I think about the second time you catheterize him, you will become confident and feel very gratified that you were able to make him feel better with a minimum of fuss for both of you.

(And P.S. Thanks very much for taking the time to post those other pics, too. They may really help somebody.)
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critters
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Re: Paralyzed dog with bladder issues

Post by critters »

:slant:

I wonder if his bladder is spastic? My Buddy had a spastic bladder and a spasm at the neck of his bladder. Phenoxybenzamine (PBZ) made a world of difference for him. Bethanechol, on the other hand, made him MUCH worse; in fact, he was impossible to express while taking it.

In my experience vets tend to be severely overly pessimistic, and, in fact, many don't wish to deal with handicappers. It can make a world of difference to find a vet who does, and I've found it to be well worth the time and effort to do so. Quite a few people around these boards have successfully catheterized at home, but I have never done it myself.

PS--Hats off on the equipment creativity! That's the kind of thinking you need for these kinds of "adventures." :D
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Re: Paralyzed dog with bladder issues

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OK, interesting, I thought that I’ve posted a reply to the last comment and it’s clearly not there now. Let me try again. I apologize for mishandling that.

As far as catheterization. The Medical Director of our local clinic has lately been in support of home catheterization with 2-3 times per week sterile changes at the clinic. Which is better than catheterizing 2-3 times per day like it’s been a week ago. I’ve watched the process many times now and I’m ashamed to say that I don’t have the guts. I keep imagining that tube going up and it makes everything inside of me scream “Nooooooooo”…

I’ve also been advised by a vet that the “sphincter muscle relaxer” that the dog takes, Prazocin 1mg x4 TID now, is mainly prescribed to counteract side-effects of catheterization. Apparently, frequent catheterization makes the sphincter contract for a while, Prazocin relaxes that. Not clear on how helpful it is in general.

With all that said, I’ve been successfully emptying his bladder 4-5 times per day in the last few days, about 200-300 mL at a time. That was the same amount as all vets were able to express manually. Then they would get just as much more via catheter. But it has been confirmed that, while not the most ultimate, it is okay to partially empty his bladder several times a day and is better than catheterizing him frequently. Yes, there are concerns about UTI and urine scolding, but those concerns are minimized with regular manual expression. It’s the lesser of two evils. The dog seems to be going with the program. He does not like the rides to the vet. Although, to the vet clinic credit, they usually have a technician with a gurney waiting by the front door as soon as we arrive.

I think I am also starting to get a better handle on the technique of the manual bladder expression. It’s been difficult to do when the bladder gets overly full and spreads all over the place inside the tummy. I’ve learned to lightly “massage” the bladder into my lower “cupped” hand until it is clearly identifiable by touch and then apply slightly-pulsating steady pressure until that ball in my hand goes flat. The dog is on the side. I can not lift him up by rear hips without him (and me) whimpering. When he is full, it’s not even possible to lift his rear with the harness, he starts crying in pain. Thank god for that Lift Table from Harbor Freight that rolls around on the rear deck now.

I don’t want to jinx it… But we are going to give him more time… His tail is wagging a lot stronger this week and even lifted a blankie yesterday with just the wagging tail. Pain perception in rear legs is still very weak (if any). But the rear leg withdrawal has increased notably. His rear legs are starting to jerk here and there a lot more often than a week ago. And he moves all 4 limbs a little when he is dreaming. The Neurologist said that if those 4 limbs appear to be moving in unison, like he’s running, that would be a good sign. Hard to tell though.

By the way : ) CarolC, your assumption about my age or gender is incorrect, but that’s not here or there… I have been staying with my mother during these difficult times and thankfully she has a fairly large house that allows for the necessary space for all of us… So I am at the same address for now, not permanently, but as long as needed to get the dog and my mother back on track…

The dog was put on Tramadol a few days ago, 200 mg TID, which my mother is really not liking because it’s a “pain medication” and those can be addictive. The vet explained that in addition to controlling pain, Tramadol also releases Serotonin, making the dog happier and the dog is not likely to be able to score any opiates from street after he’s done with treatment. He has been tapering off Prednisone steroid and not taking it any more as of today. He has been put on Simplicef (Cefpodoxime) for the UTI and it seems to be going down.

Critters, I will look into spastic bladder and Phenoxybenzamine, if needed. I can relate to your comment about “not wanting to deal with handicappers” – it’s same as in human medicine – those who have a terminal illness are not considered a “good investment” and people in better health often take higher priority. Should not be like that if you ask me. But that’s been my observation. *EDIT - wanted to clarify that all vets we've been working with in the last couple of weeks have been extremely nice and supportive, we always receive quality care with minimal delays, they understand our position and have been providing excellent advices and suggestions to help us succeed. The Medical Director of the local clinic and one Neurologist in ICU have both taken a particular personal interest in this case and have been of much help.

It’s been an “adventure” for sure. I did not realize that caring for a paralyzed dog takes 2-3 times the effort of caring for a paralyzed person. A person can at least articulate (in most cases) what they need. The dog can only look at you and hope that you “get it”. The dog and I have developed a code for Water (lick lips and make lip sounds) and code for Pee (moving lips in a smiling manner), the rest is taking lower priority for now, but these help. Still waking up at night every couple of hours to address one need or another.

We are fully committed to continue providing the dog with the best care at home and at vets as long as he’s continuing to make progress. I know that some dogs take longer to recover. So we are hoping that he is taking his time due to the extent of the spinal cord inflammation or injury. Really hoping that he would be able to regain most function and that there is not much permanent damage. But, as of now, not a single person has the magic ball that I need and only time will show how he does.

BestFriendMobility Quad Support wheelchair arrived yesterday and I’ve assembled it in the evening. Seems, thus far, to be a pretty good quality and design. It still needs many final fine adjustments and I will need to wait for a friend to help me with the dog when I set those. Got a 12-foot aluminum UHaul truck ramp to get the wheelchair from the deck to the grass. Will post some progress notes and photos once it’s all adjusted and tested. Here’s a photo, for now, of how we’ve been getting in and out of the truck bed…
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Re: Paralyzed dog with bladder issues

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illusha wrote:
As far as catheterization. The Medical Director of our local clinic has lately been in support of home catheterization with 2-3 times per week sterile changes at the clinic. Which is better than catheterizing 2-3 times per day like it’s been a week ago. I’ve watched the process many times now and I’m ashamed to say that I don’t have the guts. I keep imagining that tube going up and it makes everything inside of me scream “Nooooooooo”… You must be a guy. :)

I’ve also been advised by a vet that the “sphincter muscle relaxer” that the dog takes, Prazocin 1mg x4 TID now, is mainly prescribed to counteract side-effects of catheterization. Apparently, frequent catheterization makes the sphincter contract for a while, Prazocin relaxes that. Not clear on how helpful it is in general.
In that case, MAYBE it would also be good for general spasticity. It can be hard to know what's what as meds change name across countries, and sometimes even within them!

With all that said, I’ve been successfully emptying his bladder 4-5 times per day in the last few days, about 200-300 mL at a time. Sounds like a good start to me. NOBODY, not even vets, was born knowing how to express!!That was the same amount as all vets were able to express manually. Then they would get just as much more via catheter. But it has been confirmed that, while not the most ultimate, it is okay to partially empty his bladder several times a day and is better than catheterizing him frequently. Yes, there are concerns about UTI and urine scolding, but those concerns are minimized with regular manual expression. It’s the lesser of two evils. The dog seems to be going with the program. That's really good. It's hard to help somebody you have to fight.He does not like the rides to the vet. Although, to the vet clinic credit, they usually have a technician with a gurney waiting by the front door as soon as we arrive.

I think I am also starting to get a better handle on the technique of the manual bladder expression. It’s been difficult to do when the bladder gets overly full and spreads all over the place inside the tummy. I’ve learned to lightly “massage” the bladder into my lower “cupped” hand until it is clearly identifiable by touch and then apply slightly-pulsating steady pressure until that ball in my hand goes flat. The dog is on the side. I can not lift him up by rear hips without him (and me) whimpering. When he is full, it’s not even possible to lift his rear with the harness, he starts crying in pain. Thank god for that Lift Table from Harbor Freight that rolls around on the rear deck now. Really ingenious! :smart:

I don’t want to jinx it… But we are going to give him more time… I'm glad!His tail is wagging a lot stronger this week and even lifted a blankie yesterday with just the wagging tail. Pain perception in rear legs is still very weak (if any). But the rear leg withdrawal has increased notably. His rear legs are starting to jerk here and there a lot more often than a week ago. And he moves all 4 limbs a little when he is dreaming. The Neurologist said that if those 4 limbs appear to be moving in unison, like he’s running, that would be a good sign. Hard to tell though. The fact that they're moving at all is good because they can. I don't know that they could if, say, the spinal cord were severed.

By the way : ) CarolC, your assumption about my age or gender is incorrect, but that’s not here or there… I have been staying with my mother during these difficult times and thankfully she has a fairly large house that allows for the necessary space for all of us… So I am at the same address for now, not permanently, but as long as needed to get the dog and my mother back on track…

The dog was put on Tramadol a few days ago, 200 mg TID, which my mother is really not liking because it’s a “pain medication” and those can be addictive. I've heard both ways (addictive v. not) for Tramadol, but I think it's safe to say that it's "not very" anyway. Certainly not like the major narcs.The vet explained that in addition to controlling pain, Tramadol also releases Serotonin, making the dog happier and the dog is not likely to be able to score any opiates from street after he’s done with treatment. So true! :lol: He has been tapering off Prednisone steroid and not taking it any more as of today. He has been put on Simplicef (Cefpodoxime) for the UTI and it seems to be going down.

Critters, I will look into spastic bladder and Phenoxybenzamine, if needed. I can relate to your comment about “not wanting to deal with handicappers” – it’s same as in human medicine – those who have a terminal illness are not considered a “good investment” and people in better health often take higher priority. Should not be like that if you ask me. But that’s been my observation. *EDIT - wanted to clarify that all vets we've been working with in the last couple of weeks have been extremely nice and supportive, we always receive quality care with minimal delays, they understand our position and have been providing excellent advices and suggestions to help us succeed. The Medical Director of the local clinic and one Neurologist in ICU have both taken a particular personal interest in this case and have been of much help.

It’s been an “adventure” for sure. I did not realize that caring for a paralyzed dog takes 2-3 times the effort of caring for a paralyzed person. A person can at least articulate (in most cases) what they need. The dog can only look at you and hope that you “get it”. The dog and I have developed a code for Water (lick lips and make lip sounds) and code for Pee (moving lips in a smiling manner), the rest is taking lower priority for now, but these help. Still waking up at night every couple of hours to address one need or another.

We are fully committed to continue providing the dog with the best care at home and at vets as long as he’s continuing to make progress. I know that some dogs take longer to recover. So we are hoping that he is taking his time due to the extent of the spinal cord inflammation or injury. Really hoping that he would be able to regain most function and that there is not much permanent damage. But, as of now, not a single person has the magic ball that I need and only time will show how he does. Exactly right.

BestFriendMobility Quad Support wheelchair arrived yesterday and I’ve assembled it in the evening. Seems, thus far, to be a pretty good quality and design. It still needs many final fine adjustments and I will need to wait for a friend to help me with the dog when I set those. Got a 12-foot aluminum UHaul truck ramp to get the wheelchair from the deck to the grass. Just wondering how that works out, and how much rise you have there? 3 or 4 feet?? That's an easy enough idea to use for critter carts. You also have me thinking about that (2 of them, maybe) for a human in a wheelchair that I know. I wrestle her through the back door, which has only single, well-spaced stairs instead of the front, which has 3 nasty ones. Maybe a mobile ramp system like that would be acceptable to the homeowner she visits. :thankyou: for the idea!!!! Will post some progress notes and photos once it’s all adjusted and tested. Here’s a photo, for now, of how we’ve been getting in and out of the truck bed…
LOVE your creative ideas!!
illusha
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Re: Paralyzed dog with bladder issues

Post by illusha »

An update: got the wheelchair all adjusted, taking measurements got me in the general ball park, then had to fit the dog in and out a few times to make finer improvements.

Aluminum materials looked great out of the box. But after getting a 100-lbs dog in and out of it several times, there were a few slightly bent pieces, easy to bend back at least. Too bad that DOM tubing is so heavy or else I would just bend and weld mine own frame. Titanium would also be pretty cool… I am definitely glad that I got the biggest model they had, it was grossly over-rated for weight, I can’t imagine what people with XL dogs would do…

Once the w/c is adjusted, it still can get out of whack, set screws easily strip or dig into the aluminum. The rear wheel bolts tend to loosen and come out after some use. So my strong advice would be to keep checking all connection points regularly and definitely after the first few times of use.

Another design defect is lack of support for the dog’s mid-section. When I placed the dog into the wheelchair the very first time after him lying in bed for 3 weeks, his mid back was arched down so bad that it made me worry, he had very little spinal strength there. The problem was solved by a quick trip to Walgreens and picking up a “back brace” to make an extra sling for the mid-section, I first put it *around* the dog’s chest while I am securing him in the wheelchair, then I unhook the sticky part above the dog’s back and move it around the w/c frame, hooking it back together *under* the dog’s chest this time. If that makes sense… Works great for providing extra support…

It was also very handy to use the regular front-and-rear harness in addition to the wheelchair harness. That way, I had handles to pick the dog with for adjustments, which was helpful. I can see how the support harness may not be necessary as the dog continues making progress and getting used to the w/c process.

To get the dog into the wheelchair, there are front and rear harnesses, the rear one has leg holes and is pretty sturdy and front is mostly for general support. With both harnesses on, I start by lifting the rear end of the dog and clipping the harness to the w/c frame. By then, the front of the dog already wants to stand up, couple more attachment points on front for additional support and off we roll.

It greatly helps to not have polished hardwood floors when trying that for the first time. The dog’s weak front legs kept sliding sideways (especially while making all adjustments). Rear deck wood was fine. Just the polished floors are no good. An old bathroom mat worked great to remedy that. But then I figured that it’s easiest to do the w/c transfer right over the dog’s bed. Soft and plenty of traction.

On one hand, I’m glad that I got a “Quad Support” wheelchair with front wheels, because it will help the dog during the first few transitional days while he is still weak. On the other hand, those front wheels make the whole device more cumbersome to use and add enough weight that the dog does not want to lift the front wheels off the ground. Therefore, I see front wheels as a temporary aide in the beginning, then will try removing them in a few days and making the w/c into just a Rear Support one.

Those front wheels are just a bit too small for a grassy lawn. The ground is too soft for them to roll on and they end up digging in and putting the dog to a stop. They work excellent on any hard surface (with limitations noted). Rear 14” wheels are inflatable and seem to work very well.

The aluminum UHaul ramp did not work with the front wheels – too narrow by just an inch or two – but works great for the rear wheels. Sturdy enough to walk on together with the dog. For now, I just threw a piece of plywood to get off the rear deck last night, it’s only a couple of feet above ground. Once the dog starts using the w/c with only the rear support, the UHaul ramp will work great, it even has a tall enough edge that the w/c wheels will stay on. Doubles up as a good incline exercise. Although it’s easy enough to push or pull on the w/c frame to help the dog move around.

And, yes, these UHaul ramps can easily handle a weight of a person, especially if you put 2 of them side by side to increase width, it would also increase the weight rating. I am using mine temporarily for the task. But it would not be too hard to mount the “slider rails” from a UHaul box truck under any regular deck – then the ramp(s) could slide under the deck for storage – slide back out by one person when needed. Those UHaul aluminum ramps could be found on craigslist for around $100-200 and there are many different varieties of other aluminum and poly ramps for wheelchairs and pets to accommodate all sizes and heights. For a human wheelchair and stairs, there are stair-climbers and stair-lifts, I’d look into those as pushing (or pulling) a 200-300 lbs person up a ramp with ANY incline is going to be really hard without a motorized chair or a pulley system or a little winch like on ATVs…

I am attaching a few photos from last night in this post and the next one (due to 3 pic limit), one pic showing the w/c parts as they came in the box, another one showing everything I ended up using for a “walk” last night, and a few pix of the dog in the wheelchair. Got him out on the grass for the first time since he became paralyzed exactly 3 weeks prior. He did not want to go back into the house afterwards even though he was visibly tired. This wheelchair deal sure takes some major effort, worth it, but not easy. I promise that I will never complain about the dog pulling on the leash if he is ever able to go on a normal walk again…

P.S. – could a Mod or Admin please edit my very first post to remove the words “urgent” from the thread title – I initially started with one urgent question about bladder and now this discussion becomes more of a build thread with less urgency…
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illusha
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Re: Paralyzed dog with bladder issues

Post by illusha »

a few more pix of the dog with the new wheels...
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critters
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Re: Paralyzed dog with bladder issues

Post by critters »

illusha wrote:
Aluminum materials looked great out of the box. But after getting a 100-lbs dog in and out of it several times, there were a few slightly bent pieces, easy to bend back at least. Too bad that DOM tubing is so heavy or else I would just bend and weld mine own frame. A poster named Kid John and her husband welded several carts for their John. You might search up some of her ideas; I have NO recollection of what they used to do it. I think you'd do very well to make your own, and know ahead of time that there will probably be at least a couple of prototypes. Titanium would also be pretty cool… I am definitely glad that I got the biggest model they had, it was grossly over-rated for weight, I can’t imagine what people with XL dogs would do…

On one hand, I’m glad that I got a “Quad Support” wheelchair with front wheels, because it will help the dog during the first few transitional days while he is still weak. On the other hand, those front wheels make the whole device more cumbersome to use and add enough weight that the dog does not want to lift the front wheels off the ground. Therefore, I see front wheels as a temporary aide in the beginning, then will try removing them in a few days and making the w/c into just a Rear Support one. People whose critters have brain or neck damage or general weakness may use a quad permanently, but 2-wheeled carts seem to be preferred if they can be used, for precisely those reasons.

The aluminum UHaul ramp did not work with the front wheels – too narrow by just an inch or two – but works great for the rear wheels. Sturdy enough to walk on together with the dog. For now, I just threw a piece of plywood to get off the rear deck last night, it’s only a couple of feet above ground. Once the dog starts using the w/c with only the rear support, the UHaul ramp will work great, it even has a tall enough edge that the w/c wheels will stay on. Doubles up as a good incline exercise. Although it’s easy enough to push or pull on the w/c frame to help the dog move around.

And, yes, these UHaul ramps can easily handle a weight of a person, especially if you put 2 of them side by side to increase width, it would also increase the weight rating. I am using mine temporarily for the task. But it would not be too hard to mount the “slider rails” from a UHaul box truck under any regular deck – then the ramp(s) could slide under the deck for storage – slide back out by one person when needed. Those UHaul aluminum ramps could be found on craigslist for around $100-200 and there are many different varieties of other aluminum and poly ramps for wheelchairs and pets to accommodate all sizes and heights. For a human wheelchair and stairs, there are stair-climbers and stair-lifts, I’d look into those as pushing (or pulling) a 200-300 lbs person up a ramp with ANY incline is going to be really hard without a motorized chair or a pulley system or a little winch like on ATVs… :lol: For the last several years I've been wrestling her and her chair up the stairs in the back. I use the back door because the stairs are spaced so that I only have 1 stair in each run, like popping a curb. The owner has been adamant about not using ramps, but I think a safe temporary ramp MIGHT be agreeable to the homeowner. And yes, it's heavy to haul an overweight adult and her wheelchair up the stairs! A easy to move temporary ramp at the front door would be superb for when the yard is wet, snowy, full of sticks, etc. And yes, her front wheels are too small and get stuck on sticks and stuff when "4 wheeling," so I feel your pain! It's a terrible nuisance, but at least I can pull backwards when necessary. Not so simple with critters!

I am attaching a few photos from last night in this post and the next one (due to 3 pic limit), one pic showing the w/c parts as they came in the box, another one showing everything I ended up using for a “walk” last night, and a few pix of the dog in the wheelchair. Got him out on the grass for the first time since he became paralyzed exactly 3 weeks prior. He did not want to go back into the house afterwards even though he was visibly tired. This wheelchair deal sure takes some major effort, worth it, but not easy. I promise that I will never complain about the dog pulling on the leash if he is ever able to go on a normal walk again…
illusha
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Re: Paralyzed dog with bladder issues

Post by illusha »

critters wrote: :lol: For the last several years I've been wrestling her and her chair up the stairs in the back. I use the back door because the stairs are spaced so that I only have 1 stair in each run, like popping a curb. The owner has been adamant about not using ramps, but I think a safe temporary ramp MIGHT be agreeable to the homeowner. And yes, it's heavy to haul an overweight adult and her wheelchair up the stairs! A easy to move temporary ramp at the front door would be superb for when the yard is wet, snowy, full of sticks, etc. And yes, her front wheels are too small and get stuck on sticks and stuff when "4 wheeling," so I feel your pain! It's a terrible nuisance, but at least I can pull backwards when necessary. Not so simple with critters!
A little off topic, but I have a pro sound reinforcement company as a part-time hobby, so we get to haul lots of heavy professional speakers and amp racks around. In UHaul-style box trucks or trailers with rear ramp. Loading and unloading in all sorts of venues. Venues that have stairs we use stair-climbers on nowadays. My biggest speakers are around 100-lbs each, have a sturdy large pulling handle, on 5" casters each corner. There is still almost no way, even for the strongest crew member, to move ALONE one of those 100-lbs boxes UP the ramp with a normal incline (like into the box van). Can be done, but a major struggle, definitely unsafe. Going down the ramp alone is easier, but we've broken a few corners that way and now I require two people, would hate for that to happen with a person on board. If you decide to use a ramp, I would strongly recommend also mounting a cheap little electric winch, you can get them on craigslist or amazon or harbor freight for around $100-150, way way worth it... they are small enough that you might even be able to mount it to the wheelchair and use its batteries, like on an ATV, they are definitely a life (and back) savers...

I am about to take the dog on another "walk" in the back yard and will try to catch some more pix. He was just looking out of the open sliding door and barking like he used to just a month ago when he wanted to go outside. Sigh. We'll get him there. He kept looking at his rear legs and then looking outside...

As for the w/c frame, this is probably the best route to go, unless something really custom is needed. Aluminum is the lightest material. But welding aluminum takes some skill and special equipment. Regular steel (DOM) is much stronger, that's what I use on my offroad trucks, but it's also really heavy and would be an absolute no-go. The "kit" from BFM is alright for a starting point, kinda dinky, but can be modified and strengthened where needed. I will keep tinkering with it every time we use it to see if it can be improved upon.
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Re: Paralyzed dog with bladder issues

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I'm reading these with interest although not commenting. Your description of the expressing was very clear. It is very like what they do with big dogs in a couple of the videos on the expressing information page. If you are doing it until your hands are flat, I would think you are getting him empty. I know you said they did it that way at the vet and then got more with the catheter, but if you can feel that his bladder is flat, I'd call that empty. Credit to your mom for keeping his waistline trim, or it would be harder to feel his bladder when you express.

I am glad you know how to tweak the wheelchair but it is disappointing that you had to. I am thinking of all the people who might buy one and not have the know-how or tools or skills to do that. I noticed you said you are getting up several times a night. That would tire me out, you really need your sleep. Isn't there some way to arrange a water dish for him or maybe a lick bottle?

Your mention of a stair-climber reminded me of something. I will mention it to you because this has been a LONG-running need on this forum. There is a need for a way for people to get disabled dogs up the stairs every night. It may be elderly people who cannot carry up even a smallish dog very well, or it may be anybody with a large dog. There is a whole thread on this topic. I do not expect you to come up with the answer, but if you have this in the back of your mind, with your experience and workshop skills, maybe something will occur to you. It is the one great need for handicapped pets that has not been met. We have everything else, wheelchairs, slings, lifts, but not a stair lift. :) I keep thinking something could be done using a garage door motor. Here is the link:

:arrow: :arrow: viewtopic.php?f=30&t=11063
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