Paralysis caused by mass on spinal cord

Neurological Disorders Resources. Treatment and care for pets having pain or trouble walking or standing due to spinal injuries or neurological disorders like IVDD, FCE and DM.
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cmsquared
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Paralysis caused by mass on spinal cord

Post by cmsquared »

Hi there,

I am new here, currently attempting to manage a new normal.

After exercise one Saturday, my dog’s gait was off and was suddenly experiencing rear end weakness and pain in the back. I took her to a few vets and I wished I had pushed for a MRI because none of them seemed concerned about her situation, and it didn’t help that she would perk up at the vet and symptoms were masked. Long story short, her condition worsened and the night before her scheduled MRI, she lost all function of her hind end. The MRI showed a mass on the spinal cord. The neurologist along with my dog’s oncologist advised to treat with prednisone and a dose of elspar(chemo) because my dog also has t-zone (indolent) lymphoma that at the time did not require any treatment. The thought was that if the tumor was lymphoma, the chemo and pred would shrink the tumor and symptoms would improve. Well, it didn’t, and 7 days later she had a hemilaminectamy. The mass was removed and we’re still waiting for the biopsy results.

Today is 12 days post op. So far, she has regained very little function. She can bear weight for just a couple of seconds each time I stand her up. She can urinate but needs help (slight pressure on the bladder helps her “start”). I see her move her legs occasionally - such as when she is resting and decides to stretch - her legs stretch as well. She has always been very conservative with her tail wags, but I believe I saw her wagging it yesterday.

Her discharge papers said she was deep pain positive.

Does anyone have any experience with paralysis caused by a mass on the spinal cord? The surgeon said she expects improvement sooner than in a dog that underwent the same surgery for a herniated disc. I’ve been reading a lot about dogs with herniated discs and IVDD, but would really like to hear about others’ experiences regarding a mass on the spinal cord.
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CarolC
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Re: Paralysis caused by mass on spinal cord

Post by CarolC »

Hi cmsquared,

:welcome:

I had a bunny with a spinal tumor, but we didn't do surgery for him. 12 days seems like a long wait for biopsy results, kind of leaving you in limbo. You're paying for them, maybe the vet could call the lab and see why it's taking so long. Did they say which vertebrae the tumor was located between? Is it lumbar?

The vet's comment about expecting a quicker recovery for tumor removal versus disk disease seems very encouraging, but I'm not sure what she considers an average recovery time for IVDD in her experience. From what I've seen here, recovery time in IVDD varies widely and it kind of falls under the heading of "each case is different". Some surgeons will tell you about the IVDD dog they operated on that was walking the next day, but it's been very common to have people posting here 6 weeks post-op and their dog still isn't walking (but will eventually).

All I can think is, if I had surgery on my back 12 days ago, for a tumor or a disk, I'm sure I'd still be uncomfortable. If she can urinate with assistance getting started, that's encouraging and I would think it's probably going to get better. Recovery from spinal injury tends to be slow (that is normal) and when you're looking at bladder control, they say you need to give it at least 3 months to see if bladder control will return, and 6 months to be sure. Whatever you have at 6 months is probably about what you're going to have, but there have been notable exceptions here of bladder control returning after 6 months, or well after 6 months. If you want links to examples I can find them, but since she already has bladder control with a little assistance, it sounds like she's well on her way. I guess the point of all that was, you really can't tell what she'll have 6 months from now by what you are seeing today, it is still early days.

Did the vet say anything about when she could start PT? Or do they have you doing any PT with her? There is a list of exercises for post hemilaminectomy here, but you always have to get permission from the vet before you start. If you can afford professional PT and it is available and you can do it safely (pandemic) that might be a good option. It is hard to tell to what extent she is non weight bearing because of neurological status, and how much is just discomfort. Either swimming or walking in an underwater treadmill is a good way for dogs to exercise without needing to have a lot of balance or bear a lot of weight, because the water supports them. It might be something to look into if it's within your budget (after the expensive MRI and surgery). Even if you could just go once or twice, maybe they could evaluate her and give you a list of exercises that are specific for her, that you could do at home.

I'm just wondering, is she a middle aged dog, and is she over 50 lbs? There are harnesses that give even support for rehabilitating a dog, which make the lifting easier for you. If she is a heavy dog, you might want to look at the helpemup harness, or something similar that gives full support. If the dog is heavy, it is better to spend money on a decent harness and save your own back. Some people can manage with a towel under the belly, but I find it hard to grab a big handful of towel unless you are strong with a good grip. Even something homemade like this is easier than a towel.

You didn't mention any other issues with toileting. Here is some information on managing bowel issues, in case it is helpful while she cannot currently posture to squat. If she's going on her own with you holding her up when you go outside, then that's great.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=18586

I don't think any of this is what you were really asking (about experience with a spinal tumor) but maybe something in it will be a little help anyway.

:banner:
cmsquared
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Re: Paralysis caused by mass on spinal cord

Post by cmsquared »

CarolC wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:31 pm Hi cmsquared,

:welcome:

I had a bunny with a spinal tumor, but we didn't do surgery for him. 12 days seems like a long wait for biopsy results, kind of leaving you in limbo. You're paying for them, maybe the vet could call the lab and see why it's taking so long. Did they say which vertebrae the tumor was located between? Is it lumbar?

The vet's comment about expecting a quicker recovery for tumor removal versus disk disease seems very encouraging, but I'm not sure what she considers an average recovery time for IVDD in her experience. From what I've seen here, recovery time in IVDD varies widely and it kind of falls under the heading of "each case is different". Some surgeons will tell you about the IVDD dog they operated on that was walking the next day, but it's been very common to have people posting here 6 weeks post-op and their dog still isn't walking (but will eventually).

All I can think is, if I had surgery on my back 12 days ago, for a tumor or a disk, I'm sure I'd still be uncomfortable. If she can urinate with assistance getting started, that's encouraging and I would think it's probably going to get better. Recovery from spinal injury tends to be slow (that is normal) and when you're looking at bladder control, they say you need to give it at least 3 months to see if bladder control will return, and 6 months to be sure. Whatever you have at 6 months is probably about what you're going to have, but there have been notable exceptions here of bladder control returning after 6 months, or well after 6 months. If you want links to examples I can find them, but since she already has bladder control with a little assistance, it sounds like she's well on her way. I guess the point of all that was, you really can't tell what she'll have 6 months from now by what you are seeing today, it is still early days.

Did the vet say anything about when she could start PT? Or do they have you doing any PT with her? There is a list of exercises for post hemilaminectomy here, but you always have to get permission from the vet before you start. If you can afford professional PT and it is available and you can do it safely (pandemic) that might be a good option. It is hard to tell to what extent she is non weight bearing because of neurological status, and how much is just discomfort. Either swimming or walking in an underwater treadmill is a good way for dogs to exercise without needing to have a lot of balance or bear a lot of weight, because the water supports them. It might be something to look into if it's within your budget (after the expensive MRI and surgery). Even if you could just go once or twice, maybe they could evaluate her and give you a list of exercises that are specific for her, that you could do at home.

I'm just wondering, is she a middle aged dog, and is she over 50 lbs? There are harnesses that give even support for rehabilitating a dog, which make the lifting easier for you. If she is a heavy dog, you might want to look at the helpemup harness, or something similar that gives full support. If the dog is heavy, it is better to spend money on a decent harness and save your own back. Some people can manage with a towel under the belly, but I find it hard to grab a big handful of towel unless you are strong with a good grip. Even something homemade like this is easier than a towel.

You didn't mention any other issues with toileting. Here is some information on managing bowel issues, while she cannot currently posture to squat.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=18586

I don't think any of this is what you were really asking (about experience with a spinal tumor) but maybe something in it will be a little help anyway.

:banner:
Thank you so much for your reply. The tumor was in the thoracic region. Does the location of the mass matter in terms of prognosis?

The surgeon said she expects improvement sooner than in IVDD, but on the flip side of that, she is not as optimistic in improvement occurring over a longer period of time. She said she gives herniated disc patients 4-6 weeks and if there is no improvement by the end of the 6 weeks, she doesn’t not expect that there will be any improvement at all. For my dog, she expected improvement in my dog within 7-10 days. Well, there was improvement, but not much. She did admit that the estimated time frame for my dog was a bit arbitrary, but for some reason she didn’t get into, she expects there to be improvement sooner. I guess what I’d like to know is if this is true from others who have experienced a spinal cord mass in their pet - can I stay hopeful for as long as if this were an IVDD case?

I’ve been doing the massages and range of motion exercises detailed in the discharge papers. Once she is out of the 4 weeks of advised crate rest, I will definitely look into physical therapy and water therapy.
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CarolC
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Re: Paralysis caused by mass on spinal cord

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cmsquared wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:53 pm Thank you so much for your reply. The tumor was in the thoracic region. Does the location of the mass matter in terms of prognosis?
An injury down in the hip/tail/lumbar area tends to give the dog loose urinary sphincters and they may leak or dribble, and they are easy to express. If a dog with a lumbar injury is able to urinate, they are not overcoming a tight sphincter to do it, the sphincters are already rather relaxed. A chest/thoracic injury tends to result in tight urinary sphincters with excess tone, and the dog is technically more difficult to express (may need medication to relax the sphincters so you don't have to squeeze so hard) and it's hard for the dog to urinate even if the bladder is full because they have to overcome excess tone in the tight sphincter. But you said with a little help initiating, she is able to do it. That is a more difficult task than if it was lumbar, and to me it demonstrates more abilty. Just my :2cents:, I'm not a vet.
cmsquared wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:53 pm I guess what I’d like to know is if this is true from others who have experienced a spinal cord mass in their pet - can I stay hopeful for as long as if this were an IVDD case?
I hope there will be someone who has actual experience with the same situation, who can reply to you. I do not remember many dogs here as a result of spinal tumors. Spinal tumors are not very common, and tend to be mainly in large breed dogs, which are more challenging as far as nursing care and not everyone can commit to that for various reasons.

One of the moderators had a black lab who had a spinal tumor, but his story went differently. He was left fully paralyzed by the biopsy surgery, and he was already paralyzed when she adopted him. Your dog has a much better outcome so far.

I think what matters with spinal cord injury is not what caused it, but how much damage there is. It could be a tumor, an embolism, a disk, a fracture. How much does the body need to repair, is really the question. Your dog can urinate with only a little help after only 12 days. That sounds very hopeful to me. So many people here would be ecstatic to have that much ability intact. My dog suffered a spinal fracture mid-back. They didn't find deep pain sensation in her toes until 149 days after the accident--almost 5 months. It took over 3 years until she was urinating herself (not me squeezing), but your dog is already there. :angel:

I realize you really want to hear from someone with a similar diagnosis. If no one replies, perhaps you can try going to Google Scholar and searching the type of tumor when you get that information.

I don't know your full situation, and I don't know the age of your dog, but often dogs with spinal tumors tend to be large breeds. I have no idea how able you are to rehab a (possibly) large breed dog (physically, financially, the set-up of your house, time scheduling, agreement of family members, etc.). All I can say is, if there were no other obstacles, then I think there is reason to be optimistic and see how much recovery you can get, based on the ability she has already. But you would also want the lab results to have the whole picture. And if you really can't care for a large dog, that is not your fault. Some people can sling a 120-lb dog. I had to use a mechanical lift for a 63-lb dog. I hope you will get the answers you need. Best wishes for you and your dog.
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critters
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Re: Paralysis caused by mass on spinal cord

Post by critters »

:group: I'm not a vet either, but I agree with Carol that this sounds pretty promising to me. Any movement or function at all is a start!
cmsquared
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Re: Paralysis caused by mass on spinal cord

Post by cmsquared »

I am so thankful for the encouraging posts. I have had time to adjust to a new normal, and realize now that an immobile dog could still be a happy dog and continue to have great quality of life, as long as the owner is willing to put in the effort. I’m willing to do anything and everything.

Molly had her first hydrotherapy session and she was kicking her back legs while swimming. In the cart, we put her back legs in the loops and saw that she has started to move her legs as if she is walking. She still cannot stand on her own, and when we place her feet in position, she can only hold it for several seconds. She now urinates on her own about half the time.

Unfortunately, I have found that not all vets are very supportive, including ours. That revelation has been very disappointing. The neurosurgeon is not optimistic and wanted to see significant progress within 10 days. The lack of significant progress leads her to believe that Molly will never walk again. Her oncologist suggested that we consider euthanasia. I say screw them - we’re going to keep trying. I am so happy to see progress, but immobility alone does not have to be the end of the road for a dog; I see that now.
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CarolC
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Re: Paralysis caused by mass on spinal cord

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cmsquared wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:12 am I am so thankful for the encouraging posts. I have had time to adjust to a new normal, and realize now that an immobile dog could still be a happy dog and continue to have great quality of life, as long as the owner is willing to put in the effort. This is true! I’m willing to do anything and everything.

Molly had her first hydrotherapy session and she was kicking her back legs while swimming.
Woohoo!!! :ecstatic:
You will remember that joyful sight for the rest of your life! Hydrotherapy is the best exercise.


In the cart, we put her back legs in the loops and saw that she has started to move her legs as if she is walking. She still cannot stand on her own, and when we place her feet in position, she can only hold it for several seconds.
It comes with time. This was something I wrote about the same subject. I do not know if the therapist gave you a list of exercises. One I like is, with the dog lying on her side, press against the pads of the feet and see if she will push back. It is a resistance exercise. Someone here had a dog in PT and the therapist suggested putting hair elastics on the dog's legs to help her be more aware of feeling her feet. There is something called proprioception, where the dog needs to learn to be aware of her legs/feet and know where they are in space. I would continue massaging her paws a little bit any chance you get. Every time you stimulate her paws, it fires signals to the brain. Her body needs to remap the pathway from her brain to her toes. I used to do "This little piggy" with my dog after her injury. On the last little piggy where it says, "This little piggy went Wee-Wee-Wee-Wee all the way home" I would close my hand around her foot and squeeze it and wiggle it, and she thought it was funny! :P

She now urinates on her own about half the time.
Woohoo again!!! :yay: Happy dance! She is doing so good!

Unfortunately, I have found that not all vets are very supportive, including ours. That revelation has been very disappointing. The neurosurgeon is not optimistic and wanted to see significant progress within 10 days. The lack of significant progress leads her to believe that Molly will never walk again. Her oncologist suggested that we consider euthanasia. I say screw them - we’re going to keep trying. I am so happy to see progress, but immobility alone does not have to be the end of the road for a dog; I see that now.
Totally agree. Hopefully once the vet sees the improvement in your dog, they may revise their messaging and Molly's experience may save another dog. I think vets do learn from objective evidence, just like the rest of us. This may educate the vet. It sounds like you've had what I used to call a whole Greek chorus of negative advice. I really thought that outdated attitude was mostly gone. I'm so sorry you had to put with it, and power to you that you didn't!!!
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critters
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Re: Paralysis caused by mass on spinal cord

Post by critters »

Not every vet is willing to do the extra work and research that handicappers tend to require, and it's too bad that you haven't found one that is. The rest sounds promising, though!
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