Onset Paralysis

Neurological Disorders Resources. Treatment and care for pets having pain or trouble walking or standing due to spinal injuries or neurological disorders like IVDD, FCE and DM.
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CarolC
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Re: Onset Paralysis

Post by CarolC »

pbj_33 wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 10:20 am He laid with us for a few hours and then he was ready to get down to his bed. Not even an hour after we had gotten him down, my boyfriend and I heard his pee pad moving. I go to get up to assist him & when I looked up, Kujo was on all 4's!!!
:wow: That is awesome! You're going to remember that sight for the rest of your life. :D I'm impressed that he can stand on a potty pad, which doesn't seem like it would provide very good footing, so he did extra good to accomplish that!
pbj_33 wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 10:20 am I believe I mentioned his first standing episode & you guys advise that we start using almost like a seat to help with the sit to stand movements. Cole is currently building one due to the first one breaking under pressure. :lol:
Oh, no! How funny! Yeah, it seems like doing a sit-stand from a little higher than the floor would be easier on everybody. I kind of feel like if you do a lot of repetitions of an easier exercise, you can build up gradually, instead of killing yourself trying to do a hard exercise the dog can barely manage. The man in the video, Dr. Millis, is one of the authors of the book on canine rehab.
pbj_33 wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 10:20 am Him starting to stand, and both times being followed by using the bathroom, makes me wonder if he's making the connections needed for his body to get up when he's got to use the bathroom.
I would think so, wouldn't you? That sounds like the simplest explanation to me. That is very good news! I'll bet he's pleased with himself! :snoopy:
pbj_33
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Re: Onset Paralysis

Post by pbj_33 »

CarolC.,

Jumping for joy doesn't even begin to describe it. :cheerleader:

They told us "at 3 months you have a good idea of what you'll be dealing with & after 6 months, there is usually no improvement." That has stuck with me so hard because I felt like if he wasn't doing x,y, or z by THIS exact date, then it just wouldn't happen at all. So, in the very early stages of recovery, stressed doesn't even begin to express my emotions.

It was like having a newborn child and waiting for them to hit their milestones except there was no promise of them. We felt extremely pressed for time once we were given that "6 month window". Talking with you guys has opened my eyes a little more. Most dogs MAY NOT recover, but every dog IS different. We stopped worrying about counting the days down to 6 months and just started enjoying having Kujo home. We continued with home PT & the once a week laser & water treadmill.

We talked with our vets and amongst ourselves to kind of get an idea of what we should expect to see week by week. We were never given a "plan" but simply were told to continue what we're doing & we have seen results. Some of his "recovery signs" aren't daily things, they may be rare such as the standing and wagging his tail but they are still present and I'm hoping only become stronger.

I've taken some time to upload videos to YouTube (even though I have no idea what I'm doing lol) so that I can share them here. These videos make me so happy, especially looking back at the videos of us only being able to visit him and seeing where we are now.

If anything in the videos look incorrect or there is a better way, please advise us to do what is best or what to adjust so we are doing things the best way possible. Please ignore our voices. :hearts:

Swimming Video
https://youtu.be/PahrFhBmLZk

First Tail Wag
https://youtu.be/guobw2BQoO4

Earlier Video of walking with sling assistance ( notice how he is pushing with those back legs)
https://youtu.be/k4bRfct9gbg

First ear scratches
https://youtu.be/uaWVuJLe9EI

Thank you all again. I can't say it enough!! :chicken:
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CarolC
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Re: Onset Paralysis

Post by CarolC »

Nice videos! :D He is swimming like a champ, wagging lamps off of tables, and really enjoying scratching his chin (that is extremely cool)! He is doing good. He seems to like to swim, which is not surprising for a lab, though I remember there was a lab here once that didn't like water, but Kujo obviously does. :lol:

I don't know if you wrote a typo when you said "Most dogs MAY NOT recover, but every dog IS different." With FCE, most dogs will recover. They say that often with the ones that do not, either the dog gave up or the owner gave up. Some owners just are unable to provide the nursing care needed (expressing, exercising, lifting, etc.) and some will give up because they are given a negative prognosis by a vet (which really goes against the statistics).

When they say the dog gave up, this can be due to things like the stress of vet visits, an upset atmosphere at home, etc. That is why it is recommended to stay positive in front of your dog. If you have to get upset, do it someplace else, not in front of him. But you have done all that and you are seeing improvement, because you and Kujo didn't give up. In fact, just the opposite, it looks like he's having a blast! :lol:

This is just a small study, but look at the statistics:
https://veterinaryrecord.bmj.com/content/181/11/293

Presumptive ANNPE and FCEM were diagnosed in 157 and 44 dogs , respectively. Ambulatory function was regained in 99 per cent of cases, with persistent motor deficits in 83.6 per cent and 92.5 per cent of dogs with presumptive ANNPE and FCEM, respectively. The presumptive diagnosis was not associated with motor function recovery, recovery times or urinary continence. Faecal incontinence was five times more likely in dogs with presumptive ANNPE (23 per cent) compared with presumptive FCEM (7.5 per cent).
:book: The way I understand it, they are saying that in their study, 99% of dogs regained their walking, 92.5% of the FCE dogs still showed after-effects of the FCE in their walking, and 7.5% of FCE dogs still had some bowel incontinence. If you ask me, that's really good.

You guys are doing the daily and weekly PT to maximize his recovery. Recovery is by baby steps, but all those baby steps add up, and one day you look back and see how far you have come. The chin scratching is really impressive.

Go! Kujo!
:cheerleader: :cheer: :snoopy: :cheer: :cheerleader:
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critters
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Re: Onset Paralysis

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That all sounds really great! And yes, recovery isn't linear; sometimes it's more of a "2 steps forward, 1 step back" kind of thing.
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Re: Onset Paralysis

Post by pbj_33 »

Critters & CarolC.,

You both are so encouraging and helpful, I can't say thank you enough.

Yes, definitely a typo!! Hopefully, Kujo is apart of the bigger percentages when we look back at his recovery over the next couple of months.

We usually do therapy with his rehab team on Thursdays. Sadly, we got the call Wednesday that his entire rehab team had come in contact with COVID & we would have to take the week off. His vet advised us to use the pool as frequently as he seemed up for it. (nothing crazy, obviously.)

We did just that & burned so much energy. He slept through the night, only waking up to potty once at 5 a.m.! We both have off of work tomorrow & plan to go swimming again!

We did run into a problem yesterday at the pool. Kujo has never had his nails trimmed. He has always kept them short by running/playing on concrete. His primary vet said that isn't uncommon and that he doesn't see harm in it. Until recently, since he's unable to run normally, his back toenails are a little longer than they should be. He was actually scheduled to get them trimmed down with his appt. that got cancelled. :roll:

After Kujo finished his swimming session, we loaded up the car & that's when we noticed a small trail of blood. Of course- my stomach dropped into my butt. First thought was a broken foot, except in the worst way- where the bone breaks the surface, y'know. We traced the bleeding back to (one of) his middle toenails. Two or three of the other toenails were noticeably shorter than the pool trip. The main concern is the nail that was cut too short. The bleeding stopped shortly after he was out of the pool & he hasn't seemed like he was in any pain. Even once we got him calmed down at home. Regardless, I called the vet and she said that he should be okay but if he seemed like he was in unbearable pain, we could bring him in to the emergency clinic.

He really likes using the underwater steps to jump off of when playing fetch in the pool. I didn't even think that it could possibly be a liability. Of course, we are cautious with every activity. We make sure his toes are correctly placed when his feet are on the steps & all those small things.

My boss mentioned a powder or gel (?) that would harden after drying and creates a protective layer for the quick of the nail. I just can't remember the name of what it's called.

Today has been relatively normal. We are seeing leg kicks when we scratch a good spot & like you guys said, recovery is usually 2 steps forward & 1 step back. Perfect words for the toenail. :wink:

As soon as I got my break, we took him out in the sling & he laid in the grass and started rolling around, stretching out his legs & enjoying the grass. His personality hasn't taken a hit and for that, I'm fur-ever thankful!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnDGlN3ycqo

Please ignore our dead grass. It hasn't been recently sprayed- it just has a hard time in this heat. LOL :thankyou:
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CarolC
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Re: Onset Paralysis

Post by CarolC »

Broken nails happen. I know you hate it when it happens, but he'll likely be OK. I wonder if the product they mentioned was styptic powder like they use when the groomer trims a nail too short.

https://www.chewy.com/dogswell-remedyre ... /dp/134569

That's a bummer about the PT team, I hope they're all OK. It's important for them and the customers to be careful, of course, but it may also be important for the pets. There was an article where vets at a specialty hospital in the UK reported noticing cases of myocarditis in dogs exposed to Covid. The credentials of the vets reporting it are very impressive. I haven't heard any more about it and do not know if it applies to all variants.

Kujo looks like he is thoroughly enjoying his roll in the grass. His coat is so shiny! It looks like swimming agrees with him! :swim:
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critters
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Re: Onset Paralysis

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I've heard you can use powdery household substances as a styptic powder, but I can't remember which one(s).
pbj_33
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Re: Onset Paralysis

Post by pbj_33 »

Hi CarolC & Critters,

We found some styptic powder that night at our local pet store! We tend to over-react when we don't even know it, lol.

We have an appointment today for Kujo to see his rehab team! He will do the water treadmill & cold laser, each for an hour. We got to take him swimming on Tuesday as well!

I'm not going to lie, the line "if a dog doesn't recover from a stroke, it's more than likely because the owner or the dog gave up" has stuck in my head. Not in a bad way- just in a way that makes me want to keep him up and moving.

Kujo is a fairly large dog. It's not too difficult to lift him for a few minutes but after a while, he gets heavier. :lol: We try to take turns when walking him outside, it is just much easier for Cole to carry him. Sometimes, in all honesty, we need to let our bodies have a break. BUT the moment I think about taking a moment to myself, I think that I might be acting selfish. I only want him to get better.

I really enjoy the saying "recovery isn't linear". He has been trying extremely hard to stand up again. He will get into a position that looks like a pretzel and will look so concentrated on standing. I can't read his mind but I can definitely tell that he is wanting to move on his own.

We hope for good news and positive things from his team today as well as continued recovery at home. Thank you all for continuing to help and being a voice of reason when we need it. :angel:
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CarolC
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Re: Onset Paralysis

Post by CarolC »

I'm glad the PT is open again. Can't believe it's been 2 weeks already. I just ran into the same situation yesterday. My dog was scheduled for a 3:30 appointment at the vet, and they called me in the morning to confirm and said half their staff was off for 2 weeks. I thought of what happened to you and said, "Oh, no! Who got Covid?" She said that was the problem but she couldn't disclose names. Then 2 hours before the appointment they called and said they were closing the whole hospital for 2 weeks. I was disappointed, as we were going to ask for a Neurology referral and now we have to wait til September. :waiting: But the worst part is I worry about the vets and staff, and just really hope everyone will be OK.

I don't think you're overreacting on things. You're just taking really good care of your dog. He can probably sense that and has a tremendous feeling of security.

You are not being selfish . You *have* to take care of yourself in order to take care of your pet. There is a balance, though I know it often tends to end up in the dog's favor. :lol: But if I get tired enough or my back aches enough, I'll be crabby and impatient sooner or later, and that doesn't do me or my pets any good, so whatever you can do to take care of yourself helps your pet in the end.
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critters
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Re: Onset Paralysis

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:shock: Couldn't somebody do a referral from home??!!

PS--Styptic powder isn't bad to keep around all the time for similar little things.
pbj_33
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Re: Onset Paralysis

Post by pbj_33 »

Critters & CarolC.,

I posted a few days ago but now I'm not seeing my OP.

We aren't able to take Kujo to see his rehab team until the 20th of this month. We've been worried that the gap would cause issues in Kujo's recovery but I keep reminding myself that not every dog that recovers has access to PT.

We have gone swimming several times over the long weekend. We are trying to burn as much energy & keep his body moving as much as possible. We have purchased some 'knuckling socks' that have grip on the bottom to help with the slipping on our hardwood floors as well as a step stool that we can start helping him sit on.

He has been doing a better job of bringing his knees in when he sits up whereas they would normally sit straight out from under him, so we feel like he is in between getting his feet placed & distributing weight correctly so that he can stand on his own. He has been getting stronger & stronger, being able to hold himself up more and more when we have him in the sling.

While we are doing our PT at home, are there any suggestions or exercises we can do with Kuj to help keep his muscles stimulated? Any suggestions are appreciated and will more than likely be used!!

Thanks so much!! :grouph:
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CarolC
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Re: Onset Paralysis

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Hey there!!! :D I was wondering how it was going. So glad to hear he is bearing more weight in the sling and taking some of the burden off of you. Those swim sessions are probably the best thing you could do.

There is one exercise the therapist told me to try with my dog. While he is lying down, hide a small treat under his weak leg or paw and see if he will lift his leg so he can reach the treat. It didn't work with my dog's front feet, I don't think he's ready yet. But it worked on his hind legs. I wasn't planning to put treats under his hind legs but I guess one rolled under. He lifted his whole lower leg to get it.

Another exercise that can be done lying down is Scratch All Over.
https://handicappedpet.net/helppets/viewtopic.php?p=6815#p6815 wrote: My dog was suffering from rear end paralysis (like yours, only from an accident) and her physical therapist described an exercise I could do with her. I call it Scratch All Over. You just get down with the dog and begin scratching her briskly all over her back, neck, etc., till you hopefully find an itchy spot and she starts pumping her leg in response. This is good exercise for the leg, and even when she doesn't begin kicking, it's still our funnest therapy! ;)
Do you know anyone who has a yoga ball? This video shows an exercise with a large dog and a large ball, starting at about the 2:00 time hack. They appear to be working on balance. Once you get him on the ball, you are not having to hold up a lot of weight, the ball holds him. I read somewhere that when you carefully roll the dog forward so the hind legs leave the mat, there is an instinct for them to strain to try to get their feet back on the ground, so that's an exercise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlzF3HrmpRM

This video is *really* good and has the ball exercise right at the beginning. This dog is quadriplegic so they have to support the front, too. You can see an exercise where they move her feet in stepping motions. It's called patterning. They're using a standard treadmill and hooked some kind of harness up to support her.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7d4bk5obDw

Here is a picture of a PVC support frame to allow a paralyzed dog to use a standard treadmill (if you know someone who has a regular treadmill). I'm not sure PVC would be sturdy enough for your dog, wood might be stronger, but it gives the idea.

viewtopic.php?p=110565#p110565

I bought a peanut ball for my dog. It gives more stability. Easier for the dog and the human!

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22379

Another easy exercise you can do is to take an electric toothbrush and brush the bottom of the paws to stimulate the nerve endings.

Another exercise is the army crawl or commando crawl. You get the dog on his stomach in the sphinx position and put treats on the floor in front just out of reach and see if he will use his legs to push himself forward. There's an example at about the 1:45 time hack on this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxnJI75EIOc

There is a trampoline exercise described in this post. Rajah was 117 lbs.

viewtopic.php?p=7729#p7729

A therapist told Pippasmum to put hair elastics around her thighs for a short time to make her aware of them.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15882

Glad to hear he is doing so well. :trophy:
pbj_33
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Re: Onset Paralysis

Post by pbj_33 »

CarolC.,

We have had our hands full, for sure!! I cannot complain. We went swimming, I believe, 4 times from Friday-Monday & he enjoyed every minute. We went Tuesday as well & plan on going today if the rain will hold off! We have a yoga ball but have been worried that it was too large. We have purchased a smaller size from amazon & hope that it will arrive this week.

I cannot say thank you enough for all of the exercises, holy cow!! When I get off, we are going to have one busy boy! We tend to do 'stretches' as often as we can, but I felt like just moving his legs for him wasn't doing much. Those videos give me a little better of an idea on what I should be doing & I'm so thankful.

We saw a few videos where it seemed as the owners were letting the dog walk with his knuckles over and allowing the dog to correct it on his own, whether he does it right away or not. We have been correcting them ourselves & now I wonder if I should start letting him fix them on his own. I also run to assist him anytime that he moves himself to make sure he doesn't get twisted up. I'm thinking that I could possibly be hurting the recovery process by being a crutch. Yes, we definitely have to help him when walking in the sling, but should we let him correct his feet and legs? I'm not sure that he won't hurt himself.

We just entered our 3rd month of recovery & this whole time I was counting it as 4th but my boyfriend is right. The night it happened was June 6th, so we are just coming into the 3rd month. If you are a praying person, please send a prayer up for us. If you aren't, please think of us & send good vibes. We are pawsitive for our boy!!
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critters
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Re: Onset Paralysis

Post by critters »

Just my opinion, but I'd correct the knuckling when I could. My Koi Boy, who was shot in the spine in LA, CA, developed contractures in his foot from being allowed to knuckle. After he got here I had to have special shoes and splints made to fit his deformity. Trust me--you don't want to have to do all that unless you have to.
pbj_33
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Re: Onset Paralysis

Post by pbj_33 »

Critters,

That is so sad. People like that can kick rocks. You are his angel!! :angel:

I will make sure that we continue to correct his knuckling if & when it happens! I'd hate to add more to his plate than he already has.

He is REALLY trying to stand up but when he does, he is pulling himself forward with his front legs & not bending his knees, so he has no real help from his hind legs. They may not be strong enough yet but when we help him up by grabbing by his flanks and barely lifting, he starts kicking his legs to walk.

I wish I knew how to get him to make those connections. Maybe him continuing to try will help him.

Happy Friday!! :wub:
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