Onset Paralysis

Neurological Disorders Resources. Treatment and care for pets having pain or trouble walking or standing due to spinal injuries or neurological disorders like IVDD, FCE and DM.
pbj_33
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Re: Onset Paralysis

Post by pbj_33 »

Happy Friday, everyone!

We had our PT trip yesterday! Kaitlyn, our PT vet, says that Kujo has great muscle mass in his back legs & that it seems to continue growing. She mentioned that his right foot (not leg) has started falling more behind. He has managed around the yard by galloping while favoring the right leg. So, it seemingly bops off of the ground while he uses his other 3 stronger legs. She suggests that we stretch his toes by making them flat, instead of letting them 'point' like they are now. It isn't something that is major, its a very small point, but a point nonetheless.

She said that us standing him up in the yard how we do is great for that weaker foot, making him lay it flat & put weight down on it. We are trying to slow him down so that he is walking, not galloping, and using both feet as much as possible.

If we get the same type of report next time, I plan on asking what that could mean in the future. I know that dogs can get around fine with only 3 legs. What I'm unsure of is what would be done with his right leg? It still moves, he still attempts to scratch with it & he pulls it in a lot. ( I wish I could get him to kick with it more but as of now we are doing the nerve stimulants between his toes to help ) So, it isn't completely 'dead weight' in my opinion. I wonder if they would want to amputate or see if that leg makes a recovery- just a slower one than the left.

The run down of his appointment yesterday sort of hurt. We have always gotten positive feedback - so to hear that his right leg is starting to decline breaks my heart. I am willing to do or try whatever may warrant positive things & good feedback from Kujo & the vet.

We plan on going right after Christmas, the 27th. Please keep us in your prayers for good signs, good news, & healing for Kujo. Thank you to everyone who reaches out to give advice or check in on us. You all have truly became some of our dearest companions for this time in our lives & I cannot say thank you enough. :grouph:
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CarolC
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Re: Onset Paralysis

Post by CarolC »

I know I sound like a broken record, but...he is still healing. :blush: There is something about the 6-month point that kind of got into the popular concept of healing. I've heard it too, and been...I'd almost say "guilty" of perpetuating it. It is a convenient time period to refer to when we all want to indicate healing might take "a pretty long time". Most of us can kind of conceptualize 6 months and cast our thoughts out to that general point in the future, but that is not a stopping point. You will see things online such as, "Whatever condition your dog is in at 6 months is probably pretty much how he's going to be," and statements like, "Most of the healing occurs in the first [fill in the blank with a number of weeks or months]". As far as I can tell, it has no actual tie to reality. Dogs heal at 5 months, they heal at 6 months, they heal at 7 months, and 9 months, and a year, and 4 years...
viewtopic.php?p=60666#p60666 :angel:

This is probably too simplistic, but if you could imagine when they built the railroad that crossed America. At some point the east and west met and the train went through. Up till that point, you could say it was 75% done or 80% done or 85% done, or whatever, but it wasn't going through. In a way, it didn't matter if the people who contracted to build the railroad got it done by the estimated completion date, as long as they got it done. They had never built a railroad across the United States, they didn't really know how long it would take. They could only guess.

Like the people in that imaginary scenario, I do not really know how long it will take for Kujo's connections to be completed. I do not know if he is at 75% or 89% or 94%. But I can say from experience with my dog, he is still healing. I'm still hoping he'll get back that little bit extra that will give him better use of his leg. One thing several of us have noticed here is, what a huge, I would almost say "make or break", difference an extra 1% of healing can make. It can be the difference between being able to do something and not being able to.

While you are waiting, there was kind of a brilliant idea by someone here who had a dog with one leg slower than the other. You don't want anything that will cause him to slip on slick floors, but maybe something like a little bootie he isn't crazy about wearing on his good foot, would work to get him to use the other leg more.
https://handicappedpet.net/helppets/viewtopic.php?p=46882#p46882 wrote: Re: 7 year old lab with FCE and left hind leg paralysis

Post by mwebber » Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:01 pm
This may sound odd, but I'm trying a sock on the good foot. Whenever we've had to bandage a foot our Shepherd hates it and walks around trying to avoid putting weight on the bandaged foot. So since his left leg is the weaker one I am putting a sock on the right foot so he stimulates the left one more.
Another person was instructed to use hair elastic to help her dog feel his leg better.
https://handicappedpet.net/helppets/viewtopic.php?p=88897#p88897 wrote: Re: Pippa recovering from spinal disc surgery

Post by Pippasmum » Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:19 pm
Carmen helped us so much in a holistic way, with exercises to do at home to help make Pippa aware of her legs I know it helped Pippa recover as well as she has.
One little trick was to put a hair elastic around each thigh (for a short while) to make her aware of her legs. I think the sling walking helped her a lot as she could get about in a natural kind of way, with Mum holding up her back end!
I am remembering something my dog's physical therapist said.
https://handicappedpet.net/helppets/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2513&p=11112#p11112 wrote: That's wonderful!

Post by CarolC » Thu Dec 16, 2004 9:10 am
My dog's physical therapist says it is not unusual for one leg to come back before the other, or for one to be stronger. Oddly, it can switch unexpectedly and the weak one can suddenly become the strong one for no known reason. So they can switch back and forth like that. They don't know why, but it happens. My dog usually is stronger in her back left leg.
If you go on the 27th, you might ask the therapist to clarify if she thinks he is developing a contracture. Exercises can be helpful, but in some cases splinting the leg with a walking splint may be recommended to keep the foot in a position of function. They have splints on this website and others, or your PT place may have some they recommend, if they decide it would help. There's an example of one on the homepage of this forum. The white dog with the black splint. On my computer it shows on the righthand side of the screen but I don't know if it shows on mobile. Attaching a pic.

splints.jpg
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critters
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Re: Onset Paralysis

Post by critters »

Vets far prefer to amputate, in my opinion. I don't know why they object to waiting, but most do. Remember that you can always amputate later, if you need to. I, too, would consider trying a splint.
pbj_33
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Re: Onset Paralysis

Post by pbj_33 »

This is all so helpful. I really appreciate these things that you point out that I should ask my vet. Being my first time, I truly don't know the next 'steps'.

We know that we hope to see him walk again & what progress looks like. What we don't know to notice when he may be digressing & what they look like. I will most definitely ask about the splint & what she thinks about the contracture!

Surprisingly, our plates got a little more full this weekend. Someone we know brought a dog by & said that he was going to take her to the shelter if not drop her off on the side of the road. I really believe he told me this because he knows how I feel about that. So, of course, I took in his sweet pup. She is 7-8 months old, up to date on current shots, house trained, plays well with me & my dog & I truly do wish that I could keep her but seeing as what's going on with Kujo, I just can't give them what they both need.

She is extremely timid & was scared of her own shadow. Doesn't like loud noises or quick movements but she has come out of her shell since Friday. She loves being right under me & follows me around. It truly breaks my heart that Kujo lays there and watches as we can do things that he can't. Possibly thinking this is for good & he's been replaced. While I hate thinking about it that way, it does make me happy seeing "Cece" happy. She deserves a loving home & I wish that we could give that to her. Until we find her a forever family, we will be just that for her. I refuse to take her to the shelter, so if anyone knows if rescues are any better, please let me know. I've posted to social media pages & asked several people who usually foster but to no avail. (We are in the south GA area)

Kujo freaked out seeing her. Since he isn't fixed and neither is she, many people told me she may get him to stand. When we brought her in, he did everything he could to get to her - almost crawling on his knees it seemed. His right leg does seem stronger some days than others, like you guys said, and I'm hoping that it continues.

Like I said, I know that dogs can usually get along fine with 3 legs & the railroad example you gave me is perfect. I just pray that his back continues to get stronger. That is still our main area of 'concern'. If we can get his back stronger, The biggest issue would be the weak leg, which wouldn't be too bad.

Thank you for all of the help, in every aspect. It's so greatly appreciated & honestly very encouraging at times. I hope everyone has a wonderful week!! :grouph:
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CarolC
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Re: Onset Paralysis

Post by CarolC »

Oh, boy, what timing. Nuts to that guy that's dumping his dog. Did he just get her to breed her and changed his mind? Can't imagine getting a puppy and then threatening to dump her on the side of the road. As far as I know, most rescues are good or really good. There are also dedicated breed rescues if she is a known breed.

I kind of had that situation of appearances with Dolly when I got Pip. Dolly is paralyzed by a birth defect and after I got Pip she began having a recurrence of a sore neck, which she's had before. I do not want to risk her needing surgery at her age, so she is restricted to staying in an ex-pen if she is out of her crate, and she sees me carrying Pip around doing exercises (as his paralysis is FCE and not permanent) and I do wonder if she thinks she is now second class. She's not, the situation is what it is. I hope you can get the new dog a placement so you are not overwhelmed, as you have plenty to do already......

One thought. Total long shot and this probably won't work, but if she's microchipped, see who she's chipped to. It may be in his name, but it may still be in the name of the original owner. If he adopted her from a rescue or breeder 5 months ago, they might take her back...and put HIM on the national Do Not Adopt registry so no rescue will give him another dog ever again.
pbj_33
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Re: Onset Paralysis

Post by pbj_33 »

CarolC.,

Wow! What a weekend!

We found Cece girl a permanent home with a family who is already in love with her! I went to school with their daughter & she asked me what made me think of her. Truly, just from knowing them & knowing they have dogs of their own, knowing they had lost their golden this time last year... there were many things that crossed my mind. She said that she had told her husband that if they were to get another dog, it would be God's decision. To some, that may seem like a load of BS, but to us, that's what we needed to hear. We knew that having to give Cece up would not be easy but knowing we had the perfect family for her made it seem like the right thing to do.

Kujo is loving being back to the only child. He enjoyed her company but prefers to be the center of attention lol. We have started seeing more movement recently - mostly him trying to scratch his face or ears. We still managed to make it to the pool regardless of having an extra pup, thank the Lord.

We've been continuously flattening out his feet, as directed by his vet. His right foot, like I said previously, is tending to be at more of a point than they would like to see. She suggests that continuing the "standing" while we go out & to rub, massage, & flex his feet while he isn't using them. If we are laying in bed, I will place his feet on my legs so that they are almost bent at the knee, to keep his toes the way they should be. They aren't noticeably 'pointed' so we are trying to correct what we can before it's too late.

We've also had a friend refer to kujo as "lame". We weren't sure how to respond the first time... we hadn't heard anyone refer to him in that manner. The second time that they tried to describe Kujo as that, I corrected them. I asked what he thought was going on & he told me that from what he thought, he had assumed that Kujo had suffered from an accident rendering him permanently paralyzed with very little quality of life. He quite literally described it as thinking we were "dumping all of our money into him with no hopes of getting better".

I corrected him in the most polite way. He works on a farm & I truly believe that he doens't understand. Where I'm from in the south, people have little regards for animals, especially if they aren't benefitting them. Where he works is a family job & they handle things how they see fit. if a dog doesn't listen, doesn't work, is too old, etc. - they are no good & will be put down via owner. I've heard several horror stories that I will keep to myself - but just knowing how badly people can treat animals is sickening.

I told him that we have a purpose & reasoning behind every dollar we've spent & decision we've made. In no way, shape, or form do I wish to keep Kujo in a situation that is uncomfortable, solely for my feelings. We are striving for recovery - but if he doesn't fully come back, we could strap him into a chair & he would be the same dog (with some extra accessories).

Like I've mentioned before - we've been worried about hindering him all around. How do we know if it's time to just use the chair in hopes of getting him around easier & allowing him to enjoy himself. On the other hand, we feel like we know him. We are continuing to see progress & don't want to throw in the towel just yet.

Below, I'm attaching a video from this weekend of Kujo trying to scratch his face. Something small but something we love to see!! :angel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgtcEq ... U6qTO_PGxw
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CarolC
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Re: Onset Paralysis

Post by CarolC »

pbj_33 wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 12:09 pm CarolC.,

Wow! What a weekend!

We found Cece girl a permanent home with a family who is already in love with her! I went to school with their daughter & she asked me what made me think of her. Truly, just from knowing them & knowing they have dogs of their own, knowing they had lost their golden this time last year... there were many things that crossed my mind. She said that she had told her husband that if they were to get another dog, it would be God's decision. To some, that may seem like a load of BS, but to us, that's what we needed to hear. We knew that having to give Cece up would not be easy but knowing we had the perfect family for her made it seem like the right thing to do.

Personally, I'm kind of relieved you found a home for her. You've really got enough to do right now with one baby. If that was her in the video, she does look sweet, but it just wasn't the best time. Congratulations on getting her placed and making another family happy.

Kujo is loving being back to the only child. He enjoyed her company but prefers to be the center of attention lol. We have started seeing more movement recently - mostly him trying to scratch his face or ears. We still managed to make it to the pool regardless of having an extra pup, thank the Lord.

I was worried about that, too. Afraid with the extra complication of the new dog you would have a hard time getting to the PT. Boy, you guys don't miss a trick!!! :trophy:

Very happy to hear of the new progress. Trying to scratch his face or ears is great! Did I tell you about the exercise the therapist recommended to me?
My dog was suffering from rear end paralysis (like yours, only from an accident) and her physical therapist described an exercise I could do with her. I call it Scratch All Over. You just get down with the dog and begin scratching her briskly all over her back, neck, etc., till you hopefully find an itchy spot and she starts pumping her leg in response. This is good exercise for the leg, and even when she doesn't begin kicking, it's still our funnest therapy! ;)
We've been continuously flattening out his feet, as directed by his vet. His right foot, like I said previously, is tending to be at more of a point than they would like to see. She suggests that continuing the "standing" while we go out & to rub, massage, & flex his feet while he isn't using them. If we are laying in bed, I will place his feet on my legs so that they are almost bent at the knee, to keep his toes the way they should be. Smart. :smart: They aren't noticeably 'pointed' so we are trying to correct what we can before it's too late.

We've also had a friend refer to kujo as "lame". We weren't sure how to respond the first time... we hadn't heard anyone refer to him in that manner. The second time that they tried to describe Kujo as that, I corrected them. I asked what he thought was going on & he told me that from what he thought, he had assumed that Kujo had suffered from an accident rendering him permanently paralyzed with very little quality of life. He quite literally described it as thinking we were "dumping all of our money into him with no hopes of getting better".

I corrected him in the most polite way. He works on a farm & I truly believe that he doens't understand. Where I'm from in the south, people have little regards for animals, especially if they aren't benefitting them. Where he works is a family job & they handle things how they see fit. if a dog doesn't listen, doesn't work, is too old, etc. - they are no good & will be put down via owner. I've heard several horror stories that I will keep to myself - but just knowing how badly people can treat animals is sickening.

I told him that we have a purpose & reasoning behind every dollar we've spent & decision we've made. In no way, shape, or form do I wish to keep Kujo in a situation that is uncomfortable, solely for my feelings. We are striving for recovery - but if he doesn't fully come back, we could strap him into a chair & he would be the same dog (with some extra accessories).

Yes, things are getting better, but there are still people who do not understand about recovery and therapy. I like to think and hope that when more people see recovery in your dog, they will learn what is possible, and maybe someday they will give a dog a chance that needs it. At one time even many vets were in the "put 'em down" camp, things have changed a lot. You are in the position of kind of educating people who don't understand.

It does make you wonder what people are thinking, though, doesn't it? I once got my head bit off by a gal while I was walking my dog. My dog had back surgery and I took her out to do PT twice a day. It was 9 months before she could walk even a few feet. So during our walks, I would set her down, let her sniff around, then pick her up and carry her. We'd work on bearing weight, I'd do range of motion, etc. Sometimes I would put a scarf around her waist and let her walk "wheelbarrow style". As I was going past a store and my dog was toddling a few steps, this fine individual looked at us and said really viciously, "Well, it's about time you let that dog walk for a change!" and swished into the store. I stood there in shock, then wanted to shout, "SHE'S PARALYZED!!!". It hurt to think that all those months I'd been taking my dog out for PT/walks twice a day, and people were thinking I was mistreating her. But that's just people. In the end, I think you just have to consider the source.


Like I've mentioned before - we've been worried about hindering him all around. How do we know if it's time to just use the chair in hopes of getting him around easier & allowing him to enjoy himself. On the other hand, we feel like we know him. We are continuing to see progress & don't want to throw in the towel just yet.

I know whatever you decide, you'll do it with his best interest in mind. You know him best. It is possible that burning off some energy in a cart might help him focus better on practicing his walking. The cart should not hinder his recovery as long as he uses it in addition to PT and not instead of. I remember with Murphy (beagle) he learned to walk but Murphy's Dad would take the cart along on long walks, so if they got too far and he was too tired to walk home, he'd have his cart to walk home in. That way they could go on longer walks. Here is a post from Murphy's Dad.
https://handicappedpet.net/helppets/viewtopic.php?p=11818#p11818 wrote:
Re: News: Back From Surgeon *LINK*

Post by Murphy's Dad » Tue Jan 18, 2005 10:57 am
Its been 5 years since my Murphy was paralyzed. 2 weeks after surgery he had no deep pain sensation, 5 years later he STILL has NO DPS. But, he walks, runs, plays with us and his little sister. He only uses his cart on walks longer than 1/2 mile (It beats caryying him back!). Do not give up. Get Jackson swimming and watch for rear leg action. Leg strength and stamina is key. He can learn to walk withou DPS, its been termed "Spinal Walking".

Don't give up. Anything is possible.

Below, I'm attaching a video from this weekend of Kujo trying to scratch his face. Something small but something we love to see!! :angel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgtcEq ... U6qTO_PGxw

Love it! :cheer: :clap: :snoopy: :applaud: :cheerleader:
pbj_33
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Re: Onset Paralysis

Post by pbj_33 »

Wow to all of this!!!

That breaks my heart & also stirs me up at the inconsiderate comment from some stranger. It truly goes to show that some people don't know what's really going on. You are so right - a lot of people are under or uneducated on this. Heck, WE were uneducated until we had to learn. We still are at times - there are some things that you learn as you go.

I am thankful for the sweet time that I get to spend with Kujo. Between our PT, swim trips, & daily lives - there are times that Kujo & I get to snuggle & just enjoy being together. When life's seemingly so busy, that's really what I crave. Time. Whether it's more at home or more with him - it's never enough. I wonder if the accident has made the smaller things seem that much better. Either way, spending time with him is always my favorite.

We are blessed beyond measure for the things that we've accomplished. We are so thankful that we were able to find Cece her forever home. We may have learned a lesson or two - but not in vain. She was worth it.

That story about Murphy makes my heart happy. You are also very right about the chair possibly removing some built up energy. He may get to running & never stop. :lol: I do plan on asking his PT vet what she thinks as far as the chair goes. Fingers crossed!!
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critters
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Re: Onset Paralysis

Post by critters »

You're very wise to keep an eye out for contractures; they're FAR easier to prevent, and possibly impossible to correct. My Koi Boy came with his foot contracted, and not even surgery fixed it. He had custom boots, splints, etc. to keep it from getting worse.
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