The dreaded coyote attack

Neurological Disorders Resources. Treatment and care for pets having pain or trouble walking or standing due to spinal injuries or neurological disorders like IVDD, FCE and DM.
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CarolC
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Re: The dreaded coyote attack

Post by CarolC »

Betsy was a Himalayan as far as I know. (I got her from a shelter.) I was never sure either, because some Himalayans have longer coats. Whatever you call them, they are all three beautiful.

You could definitely try letting her feed herself, and see if she gets enough fluids in her, because you have been ensuring she gets fluids with the syringe feeding.

I found several videos on what people do to feed wobbly cats.

Sturdy raised feeders
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD98Ul6CLEA

Bowls raised and tilted
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftRvH04zUPA

This one is a severely wobbly cat. They feed canned food from a fork held to the mouth, while the owner uses a steadying hand on the back of the neck to suppress the head bobbing. The feet are slipping because they are on an easy to clean surface but I imagine that's harder for the cat. At 8:20 it shows feeding the cat dry food, kind of lying down. The owner again steadies the cat's shoulders to reduce the tremors.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4hfWh1Az4A

This one shows feeding a mature cat from a raised bowl. The owner mounds the food into a pointed mountain so the cat can "peck" from the top of the mound, it's brilliant. :smart: Then it shows drinking. The cat seems to drink without too much problem. This kitty is obviously very well taken care of. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HN04AOzmSQ

They don't seem to raise the water bowls. I wonder why not. I suppose if you try different heights of water bowls, she will show you which one she likes.
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critters
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Re: The dreaded coyote attack

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I've had blind and one-eyed cats who did fine, but I'm wondering about Sandy. I would DEFINITELY use the ointment; if nothing else, it'll help keep her eyes moist. Spunk, my blind punk, had a ruptured eye as a baby. The vet did a third eyelid flap, essentially putting a stitch into her third eyelids to keep them closed, like bandages on her eyes. Her eyes healed, although with scars, and it was much cheaper than enucleation (taking her eyes).

My Tristalyn had nerve damage in her arm from being hit by a car, and it DID completely heal. It took time--maybe 6 months.

I think what Best Friends is saying is that they only take from animal control, rescue orgs, etc. Seems like they'd make an exception for handicappers and/or medical necessity, and I think I'd try again and explain that, should you want to go that route.
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FYI
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Third eyelid flap procedure

Post by FYI »

https://pinesvet.com/faqs/surgical-eyelid-flaps/ wrote:
SURGICAL EYELID FLAPS

There are two surgical bandages that can be performed to help protect an injured eye. These natural protective coverings can seal small fluid leaks from the eye, prevent the eye from drying out, prevent the pain from sunlight, and actually help heal wounds on the surface of the eye.

THIRD EYELID FLAP:
This is sometimes called a nictitans flap. Pets have an extra eyelid that lies inside the other two lids and is attached to the inside corner of the eye. This eyelid has a small lymph node on the back side which helps produce tears as well as has the ability to help in the healing process of an injured eye. In this procedure, the third eyelid is pulled up over the eyeball and sutured to the skin just above the outer corner of the eye. Medications may be instilled before the flap is sutured up over the eye. Additional medications may be applied to the outer surface of this eyelid and will then passively flow behind the lid to medicate the eye. This flap is then left sutured over the eye for 7-14 days. This flap is removed simply by removing the sutures.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzNjOD844cY
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Drinking tips for wobbly cats

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pioneerMan
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Re: The dreaded coyote attack

Post by pioneerMan »

Thanks for the videos everyone that have been posted. I will try to watch them this weekend.

Today I was feeding Sandy when Precious decided to jump up in my lap too. She is similar looking to Sandy, but her fur is shorter and neater. While Precious was on my lap, Sandy started biting her again, and this time I whipped out my iPhone. I normally always try to carry it with me to document stuff. I'm not sure how hard Sandy is biting, but it's enough to piss off Precious. So if she can bite Precious, why can't she bite soft pieces of fish? Maybe Sandy is not really sinking her teeth into Precious at all, and Precious is just annoyed at Sandy.

Maybe I'll try hand feeding Sandy some fish this weekend that is not blended up. By the way, I felt inspired to open a small probiotic capsule that I normally take daily, and put it into Sandy's smoothie. I figured since she was given antibiotics for her eyes, that maybe she could benefit from some probiotics. I also got a few eye-dropper fulls of colloidal silver down her throat. Colloidal silver has been proven to be excellent in killing infections of various kinds.

Here is the link for the video I made today of Sandy biting Precious.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/uipblxti ... g.mov/file

Thanks!
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CarolC
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Re: The dreaded coyote attack

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Whatever you're doing, she sure is full of pep and energy, like a healthy teenaged cat. I think you're right, it looks like she's laying her mouth on Precious but not really clamping down. She does not act like a cat with a sore tooth.

There is another condition I came across while looking at videos, where cats simply get a dislocated jaw. It is then stuck in the open position. It isn't broken, but since it's pushed out of alignment it does not open and close, it just stays open all the time. There's even a name and abbreviation for it. Open mouthed jaw locking (OJL). Apparently some cases can be fixed without anesthesia.
https://www.veterinarypracticenews.com/what-you-need-to-know-about-jaw-locking/" wrote: However, an acute case of open-mouth jaw locking is relieved by opening the patient’s mouth as wide as possible, and moving the mandible to midline from the side it is shifted to. This may require sedation, but in many cases, it is a very quick procedure that will relieve the lock in the awake patient.
Here is a short video showing them fixing it on one cat (under anesthesia). The jaw was popped out of line and the vet pops it back in.



ADDED NOTE: I was looking at the introduction to that article in Veterinary Practice News and it says
One possible cause for cats’ and dogs’ inability to close the mouth is open-mouth jaw locking, which is rare enough that you may not have learned of it in veterinary school.
It's possible your vet might not have recognized it, if that's what's going on. If it's not that common, that would be understandable on his part. If your vet hospital has more than one vet, it's possible one of the others might have run into it over the years, or is familiar with it.
pioneerMan
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Re: The dreaded coyote attack

Post by pioneerMan »

Thanks Critters for sharing your experience that it took 6 months for your cat to heal from nerve damage. This is the type of positive example I have been looking for.

As I mentioned before, I took Sandy to the Vet last Wednesday and left with an antibiotic shot. This week I'm going back into town for groceries. I was wondering if I should take her for a second dose of antibiotics, OR if I should leave her home and just buy some all purpose antibiotic drops from Tractor Supply or similar store. What do you guys suggest.

Also, based on Critter's advice, I think I will buy some eye ointment for Sandy. What I'm looking for is Terramycin, right?

Thanks!
pioneerMan
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Re: The dreaded coyote attack

Post by pioneerMan »

CarolC, thanks for the idea, but in Sandy's case, she is able to close her mouth. Yesterday I saw her go over by the food plate that the other cats eat from. She hasn't done this for a long time because she knows she can't eat anything from it. But I think she was lapping up some of the broth that comes in the cans of mackerel. Anyway, I was surprised by this and hope she will keep doing it, maybe she'll try taking a small bite in the near future.
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CarolC
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Re: The dreaded coyote attack

Post by CarolC »

I'm sorry. Going back, I see you said on September 9 that she could close her mouth, and somehow I missed it. I'm really sorry. :oops: :blush: :roll:

Does the vet invoice give the name of the antibiotic shot?

The shot called Convenia (cefovecin) works for up to 2 weeks or longer.

I think your vet said the shot given would last 4 days. Convenia is 14 days so maybe he gave her something else.

https://www.zoetispetcare.com/products/convenia

How is her nasal congestion now?
pioneerMan
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Re: The dreaded coyote attack

Post by pioneerMan »

The invoice like item just says:

EXCEDE INJ SMALL ANIMAL < 3ML

I'm not sure what it means. Maybe Excede is the brand name of the antibiotic? Don't know.

If I get more antibiotics for Sandy, I'm hoping for liquid drops that I can use, because I'm not overly comfortable with injecting her with a needle. Plus, as you correctly noted earlier, I want something natural if possible, especially after watching this short video on a cat who nearly died after having a crazy reaction to antibiotics given by her vet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVtJf7myvTc

Her nasal congestion is back, but I think its because the antibiotics given by Sandy's vet said they only last 4 days. I need something I can give her for a few weeks to really wipe out the infection, right?

Thanks for helping me!
pioneerMan
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Re: The dreaded coyote attack

Post by pioneerMan »

CarolC, another question for you. When Betsy was still alive and blind, did she have to have her eyes removed? What determines if they have to come out, versus staying in and just not being able to make use of them?

Thanks!
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CarolC
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Re: The dreaded coyote attack

Post by CarolC »

On the antibiotic, Excede appears to be used on farm animals. It isn't listed in my pet medication books. When I google "excede veterinary antibiotic" it shows bottles for horses and swine. According to VetDepot, it can be used for dogs, but is not indicated for cats. Maybe this was an off label use...don't know.
http://explore.vetdepot.com/medications/Ceftiofur/ wrote: There are no indications for use of the drug in cats.
I kind of get the impression your vet is more of a large animal country vet, which is different from a small animal vet. If you know of any good vets in the area that are more focussed on cats and dogs, you might have better luck. I mean, it sounds like the medicine he gave worked, but I have a feeling a small animal vet would have given her something that is approved for cats, and something that lasts more than 4 days.

Those cats on the video are pretty, aren't they? I don't blame the owners for being so worried.

The one medication that made the cat uneasy and twitch was Baytril. The information page does mention aggression in some pets. There was some bad press for Baytril many years ago because it could apparently cause blindness at high doses (going by memory) but that controversy calmed down because it works well at the proper dose.

The second medication (the one that made him drool) was Bactrim, which I have heard of but I don't think any of my pets have had it, or at least I don't remember. It does say on the information page that it can cause drooling, so that is a common reaction. It might not have been so upsetting, but they were already upset after the Baytril.

I don't know if you are familiar with Flagyl (metronidazole), a very common medication used for diarrhea. That can definitely cause drooling if you use the liquid form because it tastes bitter and cats find the taste nasty. It works so well on cat diarrhea that it's worth it if you must, however I prefer the pill form because I don't like putting something horrible tasting in my cat's mouth.

I think vets need an assortment of antibiotics because different ones work for different infections, and in today's world germs are becoming resistant and sometimes you have to use a different medication, not to mention that pets all have their own genetics and what works for one may not work equally well for another. One very common antibiotic is amoxicillin. My cat was able to take it when he was young, but when he was a senior he vomited and couldn't keep it down. He was having kidney issues at the time and I thought maybe that made the medication affect him differently in his old age, I wasn't sure.

In a case like my Teddy with amoxicillin, or a case like this cat in the video with Baytril, probably the thing to do is to simply note on the cat's chart that he had a reaction to that particular medication, and be sure he isn't given that one again. The other cat (Sherlock?) did fine, no twitching, so there's no need to put a note on his chart.

I like what Barbara said once. I felt like it was a balanced view.
https://handicappedpet.net/helppets/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4369&p=22701#p22701 wrote: Some cats have reactions to some medications. I have used various antibiotics, such as cephalexin, amoxycillin, and baytril. Some will vomit one and do fine on another. I have seen cats vomit all three.
I'm afraid I don't know the answer on what antibiotic your Sandy needs. If it was my cat, I would probably ask the vet about the Convenia. One shot is about $68 but it continues working for 2 weeks. It's made by the same company that makes Excede (Zoetis). But I have no idea if it is good for upper respiratory and eye symptoms.

Critters (or BendyMom if she gets time) can tell you more about the congestion. There are a lot of different things that can cause sniffles and runny eyes in cats. I think it varies somewhat by where you live, too. One common one is a herpes virus. Cats carry it and if their system is stressed it can flare up. You can read the symptoms here (though the same symptoms could probably match more than one illness, so just because a cat has these symptoms it may not mean they have herpes virus).

https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/ ... tracheitis

They used to say giving a cat a natural supplement called lysine was helpful with herpes. Now there is some disagreement on whether it helps. They do still recommend it on the VCA website. You can get lysine at any health food store (or Walmart for $4).
https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/lysine wrote: Lysine (brand names: Enisyl-F®, Incremin®, Viralys®, Felisyl®, Optixcare) is an amino acid supplement used to treat clinical signs associated with feline herpes virus infection in cats.
No, Betsy's eyes didn't have to have anything done. As far as I know, she went blind from a retinal issue related to chronic renal failure in old age. She had kidney trouble. Sometimes retinal problems can be corrected in kidney failure cats, but she lost her vision. It wasn't caused by a corneal ulcer. It was probably caused by kidney issues and hypertension.

There are cats that have problems where their eyeball will swell up like a balloon. If you want an example, you could google "cat ruptured eyeball". It isn't pretty, but it does help explain why sometimes they remove them as a last resort. Critters knows about eyes. Hopefully she will be online before you make your grocery run, and can respond. This is all kind of outside my experience, other than just being a pet owner like you.
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critters
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Re: The dreaded coyote attack

Post by critters »

Terramycin is worth a try, and you don't usually need a RX for it either.

I think I forgot to mention that Purrz had a 3rd eyelid flap, too, for a deep ulcer on his cornea. He had a small scar there for the rest of his life, but the eye never ruptured.
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Re: The dreaded coyote attack

Post by pioneerMan »

Has anyone had success using a bottle to feed a cat? I bought some human baby bottles from Walmart and made the cut in the nipple bigger, since her mackerel smoothie is thicker than regular milk. But she really had a hard time learning the concept of sucking. I tried it once and gave up. Maybe I should have worked with Sandy more on it, as I really think a bottle would be easier than a syringe.

Also, any positive stories here of people using natural colloidal silver to treat infections instead of antibiotics that some cats seem to have bad reactions to?

By the way, my plans changed, and so I'm not going into town tomorrow instead of today.

Thanks!
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CarolC
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Re: The dreaded coyote attack

Post by CarolC »

I've never tried a bottle. I've only done assisted feeding with a plastic syringe like you've been doing, except mine was a smaller size. I find a big syringe hard to use because my thumb gets tired trying to push the plunger. I was feeding either Gerber turkey, Gerber chicken, or Science Diet a/d, which are all easy to feed in a syringe. There were no lumps. (The turkey and chicken were not balanced, but sometimes you are just trying to get anything into them.)

I remember when I was syringe feeding Emily (in 2002) it was time consuming, but that was partly because she didn't really want to eat. I had to coax her and go slow. Your kitty is more than glad to eat. :D I tried putting different types of canned cat food in a baby food blender so she would have something that tasted familiar, but I had trouble getting it creamy enough to pull through a syringe. The blender would puree it, but it needed to be really-really smooth to work with the syringe I was using. I should have strained it I guess. Or got a better blender maybe? I don't know. The Science Diet a/d worked the best, it's designed so you can syringe it. I always keep some on hand for emergencies.

Maybe she doesn't understand that there is food inside the nipple, or maybe she just can't close her mouth on it firmly enough and you could try again in week or two. It looked like you were doing extremely well with the big syringe when you did it in that video. I wish I could have got Emmie to eat like that. But I don't know how long it takes to do a feeding with your cat. With Emily, it was taking close to 2 hours per feeding, but again, she didn't want to eat.

I was trying to think what else might work for a fish smoothie. Maybe a squeeze bottle like for ketchup and mustard? But I doubt that would be much better than the syringe. The only way it would be better is if the nozzle is wider than the tip of the syringe so you can squirt the food in her mouth easier. If you're going to be in a dollar store when you do your supply run, maybe you could look at squeeze bottles in the kitchen section or health and beauty and see if there is anything worth trying for 99 cents?

bottle.jpg
I have no experience with colloidal silver, I'm sorry.
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