Newbie but need support

Neurological Disorders Resources. Treatment and care for pets having pain or trouble walking or standing due to spinal injuries or neurological disorders like IVDD, FCE and DM.
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CarolC
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Re: Newbie but need support

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coxmaria3 wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 9:32 pm Critters - that is a nice idea to try with a baby comforter! That might just work for him to burrow in and out of!

He did NOT bust out of the bathroom today. I was honestly expecting him to have chewed a hole in the door because at this point anything is possible. He also had not made pee in his belly band and made big pee when I took him out. We did get home about an hour earlier so that might have contributed to no pee. He had made a poop, but DS got it cleaned up before I got a good look to see "how much."

This reminded me of when Dianne was travelling with Schnitzel and they left him in the hotel room. He tried to dig out...
viewtopic.php?p=59960#p59960


Just now when I took him out for the final night pee, he made a poop all by himself. Even squatted down and held himself. He's been doing this when he pees too.
That is really-really good. Squatting and holding the position while also relaxing enough to do the business is a real accomplishment.

Three weeks ago today. I never dreamed he would be where he is today when I brought him home after surgery. He continues to improve every day and my heart feels a little lighter everyday to see that improvement.

Funny NOT FUNNY, where Tinker had his accident yesterday when I got home, I thought I had cleaned it up really well. Used the Nature's Miracle and the handheld carpet cleaner with more Nature's Miracle on top. Tinker's brother, Colonel, decided to mark right on top of where he had his accident about 2 minutes before we had to be out the door this morning. He's NEVER done that and he only has one testicle. SMH

Not funny, and not good timing either. I'm wondering why he was attracted to the spot. I don't know how many hours it takes for the Nature's Miracle to digest the urine, but it sounds like it wasn't gone yet or else he wouldn't still be smelling it? That or if there is a pad under the carpet, you might have a 6" diameter spot on the surface and a 1 foot diameter spot underneath on the pad, so maybe it didn't all get treated? I have no idea. I've heard you should pull back the carpet and spray the pad underneath, but realistically that depends on where your dog marked. It isn't always possible to pull it back if it's in the middle of the room, or you have heavy furniture that would be hard to move.

One way to tell if you have a spot is to use a black light. Darken the room and turn on your black light and walk around checking the carpet or wherever you think there might be an issue. If the spot still fluoresces, I suppose that means it's not gone yet and perhaps it needs to be blocked off till it's fully treated? Simple Solution makes a black light called the Spot Spotter. I have their old version which is great. This seems to be a new model that I haven't tried.
https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcostor ... e-detector
coxmaria3
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Re: Newbie but need support

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Tinker stayed with his grandparents all day and night yesterday. He needed a little Gigi and Poppa loving! Zero pooping accidents yesterday and today. However, Gigi is retired and was able to take him out. He is very aware of pooping versus when he was getting caught off guard by it just appearing. Hoovering and send to get it all voided - I was use to Trooper thinking it was all out and then finding random balls everywhere.

He's been very active when he comes out of his playpen for exercise, but he will definitely let you know when he wants to go back in his playpen. He walks up to the side and scratches and rubs his nose on it. Yes, might I add this is the same playpen that has two huge holes in it with duct tape all over it where he busted out. Multiple times. SMH

Today has been a super lazy day. I got home about 1:00 last night because DS played football about 3 his away. All we've done after I picked Tink up was last around. He continues to improve. Counting all the blessings.
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Re: Newbie but need support

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coxmaria3 wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 7:26 pm Tinker stayed with his grandparents all day and night yesterday. He needed a little Gigi and Poppa loving! Zero pooping accidents yesterday and today. However, Gigi is retired and was able to take him out. He is very aware of pooping versus when he was getting caught off guard by it just appearing. Hoovering and send to get it all voided - I was use to Trooper thinking it was all out and then finding random balls everywhere. That is wonderful news. Bless his heart, I'm sure he's happier about it, too! With the kind of injury my dog has, he may not get that back, but I have a feeling that once he is able to squat independently like Tinker, he will take care of business! :D

He's been very active when he comes out of his playpen for exercise, but he will definitely let you know when he wants to go back in his playpen. He walks up to the side and scratches and rubs his nose on it. Yes, might I add this is the same playpen that has two huge holes in it with duct tape all over it where he busted out. Multiple times. SMH
That's pretty funny. Now he likes it? LOL Well, good. Maybe he needs a new one for Christmas. :present:

Today has been a super lazy day. I got home about 1:00 last night because DS played football about 3 his away. All we've done after I picked Tink up was last around. He continues to improve. Counting all the blessings.
You both deserve a break and a day off. :snooze: :sleepingdog: So glad you got one!
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Re: Newbie but need support

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Haven't updated because things with Tink continue to improve. The bathroom confinement when we are out continues to work, not well, but it is what it is. He chewed the door frame yesterday in an attempt to get out. He's absolutely fine in his playpen when we get home.

Still issues with controlling his bowels which I know is to be expected. We are going to have to try diapers to contain it during the day because he won't go on the pad. He goes right by the door as he's trying to get out then steps all in it. He is fine if we are home to take him out regularly but it's simply not possible during the work week. I can absolutely deal with it though because he is great walking, standing, sitting, when we take him out to eat and potty. He tries to do too much. He tries, and could walk up the couple steps to get back into the house, but I won't let him. Thoughts on that? Should I let him walk up the steps?
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Re: Newbie but need support

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coxmaria3 wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 6:37 pm Haven't updated because things with Tink continue to improve. The bathroom confinement when we are out continues to work, not well, but it is what it is. He chewed the door frame yesterday in an attempt to get out. He's absolutely fine in his playpen when we get home.

Oh dear for your door frame. Bummer :| He certainly has determination! :lol:

Still issues with controlling his bowels which I know is to be expected. We are going to have to try diapers to contain it during the day because he won't go on the pad. He goes right by the door as he's trying to get out then steps all in it. He is fine if we are home to take him out regularly but it's simply not possible during the work week.

It's worth a try. Diapers are second nature after raising 3 kids. :D The only consideration is cleanup. If his stools are medium to soft, you don't want to come home to a messy matted bottom when you remove the diaper. So it may be worth looking into a type of food that will give him firm stools that won't gum up his fur. You could also shave his little bottom to make clean up easier. If you can get a diaper that has some ease in the seat so it isn't snug against his rear, that may help. If you plan to use Pampers or similar, human disposables sometimes fit better on a dog if you put them on backward with the tapes to the back.

I can absolutely deal with it though because he is great walking, standing, sitting, when we take him out to eat and potty. He tries to do too much. He tries, and could walk up the couple steps to get back into the house, but I won't let him. Thoughts on that? Should I let him walk up the steps?

This is going to be a very long non-answer. :oops: I can name some considerations, but in the end we each have to decide the best we can. I'm sure you're going to read and research and weigh everything anyway. My :2cents: would be, I totally agree in not letting him do it now while he's supposed to be resting.

Beyond that, it's about what you are trying to achieve. Dodger's List, which is dedicated to IVDD dogs, especially dachshunds, recommends you never let an IVDD dog jump on furniture or use the stairs again.

I can see the sense of not jumping on and off of furniture. That would be a really good way to blow another disk in any dog. It's easy to say no more jumping off the bed, but that isn't the question.

Keeping in mind I am absolutely not a vet, I would have to consider stairs from a practical standpoint. Is the dog walking smoothly up and down? Every time? Or is he usually slow when alone, but chases his brother on the stairs sometimes? Or is he normally thundering up the steps in a mad dash, and bouncing down the stairs at breakneck speed and flying off the bottom step? In other words, how much stress is your particular dog, with his particular size (in relation to the height of the steps), and his particular personality, putting on his back? You will be the one who knows him best, and who loves him most, and who will decide what is best for him. It may mean ramps and baby gates. That would be safer.

We had a moderator here named Joe, and he had an IVDD beagle named Murphy who had surgery and after months of PT began walking again. Murphy was allowed to do steps. As far as I know he was fine. A beagle has longer legs than a dachshund or shih tzu. I don't know if that mattered. My Merlin was a golden retriever. At his size, he could flow up and down stairs, they were small compared to the length of his legs. A dog like a dachshund or shih tzu has shorter legs and climbing the stairs is more like the pyramid of Giza to a short dog. His long back makes him more predisposed to injuring it. And Tinker has already hurt his back once, so if genetics have anything to do with it, he may be at higher risk, I don't know. The statistics on blowing another disk are not high, but it happens.

They talk about the accumulation of small stresses. It is possible (we don't know) that Tinker had accumulated stresses (small injuries to the disk that were building up) in his nighttime jumping on and off the bed (or similar activity), so when he was playing in the yard, his disk was already in bad shape and it only took a little play to cause a devastating injury because it was pretty far gone already. I only say that because he did not do something major like jump off the tailgate of a pick-up right before he went down. He was just playing in the yard. So did his disk already have some damage before the play caused him to go down? You can only wonder. He injured a disk higher up in the back than is the most common place. It makes me wonder even more if the furniture had something to do with it. And if so, what is the condition of his other disks? Have they sustained cumulative micro-injuries, too?

There is another consideration which I'm not going to say exactly right, but it has to do with age. It is more common for younger dogs to have a catastrophic disk injury, blow out a disk suddenly. Older dogs tend to have more chronic disk problems, but age related disk degeneration can put a dog in a wheelchair, too, and affect bowel and bladder. If you don't want to get ramps for the IVDD, you might consider a ramp just based on age. You're protecting Tinker and possibly preventing an injury in your other dog, too.

I have had ramps at our house since around 2005 when I got one for Matilda, a mini-dachshund. Once I had it, all the dogs immediately began using it, and I found I liked it myself. I recommend that if you make a ramp, that you make it with extra thick plywood. The ramp I have right now is not quite thick enough and it drives me nuts flexing slightly every time I step on it.

I think the safest thing for a dog with Tinker's history is baby gates at the top and bottom of the stairs if you have a 2-story house. No more sleeping on the bed. A ramp out to the back yard if it is possible with the configuration of your back door. This is only my personal feeling. What you choose may be different. You can't bubble-wrap your dog, but you've been fortunate this time, and his progress has been really good, especially for a dog his age, and I don't know if you'd be that lucky a second time, Heaven forbid. I'm not a risk taker, but what's right for my peace of mind may not be what fits with your family, so you will have to weigh everything and decide.

I'm getting off the subject, but bubble wrap made me think of it. I'm going through something similar with one of my dogs. I have a 13-yo dog named Dolly who has been paralyzed (spinal birth defect) all her life. Here is a video from her foster when she was a puppy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQ09GdVuuKE
She began having neck problems the past few years and when it happened in August, she was on STRICT crate rest and FOUR kinds of medicine, and we almost didn't get it under control. It scared me. She did 10 full weeks of STRICT rest. She is back to her bouncy self, Thank God. But I am left trying to map the rest of her life.

I sure wouldn't want her to have neck surgery at her age, and with her already being rear paralyzed. So she is now no longer allowed to bounce around the yard. It's sad, but that's the way it is. I place an x-pen out in the grass and she may move around in a 12 sq ft area. Today it was cold. I put the x-pen in the sun porch and she is enjoying barking out the glass door at cats. It isn't her former life. But it has to be her new life. We can't have this happen again, we just can't. I'm sure I'll find other ways to make her life enjoyable but safe for her, we are just starting on this new normal.

So I know it's hard. You don't want to feel like a mean mom. But I am telling myself most of us begin to have some restrictions as we age. Maybe it's just time. In Dolly's case, the decision is made for us. We just CAN'T have this happen again.

Very best wishes as you make decisions for your baby.
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Re: Newbie but need support

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As always I absolutely appreciate the support and advice. We are going to stick to no steps, especially in his resting phase. I may reevaluate in another month, but we really have very few steps in and out of the house. We do have a second floor and I'll put a gate up but he's never been keen on going up/down them anyway. Definitely no more jumping. I have a ramp for the bed when we get to that point, MAYBE in another month.

I do think it was a combination of the all the jumping on things and jumping off things and the straw that figuratively broke the camel's back was the twisting, turning, running, and jumping that day, four weeks ago.

We expanded his recovery room during the day to our bedroom and bathroom. The last two days have been great. He hasn't chewed through anything. He also seems much more settled when we come home. Still not able to hold pee until we get home but the belly band is doing the trick. The pooping is still happening but today he didn't mush around in it and it was easily picked up.

He's visiting his Gigi all day and night tomorrow while the house gets cleaned and we go football tomorrow night. My DD will be home for the next week so she can take care of him during the day and take him out. Happy upcoming Thanksgiving!!!
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Re: Newbie but need support

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Oh the best laid plans! DS came down with the flu yesterday. DD was getting ready to come home from college for Thanksgiving break and came down with the stomach bug. :shock: Needless to say I've been a bit distracted today with nursing everyone once DD was able to drive home.

Today is Tinker's first night without deramaxx. Right now he's madder than a wet hen because I won't let him on the bed. He's in his play pen like normal but I guess because he's not loopy, he's having a definite opinion about staying in there while we are on the bed. He settled down when I told him to stop the nonsense that it wasn't happening..... Mean ole momma over here!

He also pooped outside today. Definitely having a hard time realizing he has not finished his business. Squats to do it but doesn't finish before he's off to the next task or because he's ready to come in because it's turned off cold here. Hopefully that will improve with time.

Mean ole momma is going to bed. This nurse is off duty.
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Re: Newbie but need support

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coxmaria3 wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:40 pm Oh the best laid plans! DS came down with the flu yesterday. DD was getting ready to come home from college for Thanksgiving break and came down with the stomach bug. :shock: Needless to say I've been a bit distracted today with nursing everyone once DD was able to drive home.

Yikes! I'm sorry to hear that. It reminded me of a saying which was also a song sung as a round in 2 parts:

Time exists so that everything doesn't happen all at once.
Space exists so that everything doesn't ha-ap-pen to you!


Hoping the stomach bug is short-lived (cafeteria related?) and not catching and she'll still be able to help with Tinker. Your daughter had the flu 10 days ago and somehow your son managed not to catch it, but now he did. Maybe the change of weather and then the excitement of the game had something to do with it? Also hoping you don't catch the flu. Adults tend to have better immunity from being exposed to more things over the years, so fingers crossed.


Today is Tinker's first night without deramaxx. Right now he's madder than a wet hen because I won't let him on the bed. He's in his play pen like normal but I guess because he's not loopy, he's having a definite opinion about staying in there while we are on the bed. He settled down when I told him to stop the nonsense that it wasn't happening..... Mean ole momma over here!
Tough love momma, and Momma knows best!!! He understood you meant business! :lol: :trophy:

He also pooped outside today. Definitely having a hard time realizing he has not finished his business. Squats to do it but doesn't finish before he's off to the next task or because he's ready to come in because it's turned off cold here. Hopefully that will improve with time.
Guess he doesn't have that degree of sensation yet. It's still very early. I agree, have to see how he's doing at 3 months and 6 months.

Mean ole momma is going to bed. This nurse is off duty.
I supposed it's better that they came down with their bugs now instead of the day before Thanksgiving. And since they had it now, they might be good through the Christmas and New Year holidays. Better days are coming!
coxmaria3
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Re: Newbie but need support

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CarolC wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:39 pm
coxmaria3 wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:40 pm Oh the best laid plans! DS came down with the flu yesterday. DD was getting ready to come home from college for Thanksgiving break and came down with the stomach bug. :shock: Needless to say I've been a bit distracted today with nursing everyone once DD was able to drive home.

Yikes! I'm sorry to hear that. It reminded me of a saying which was also a song sung as a round in 2 parts:

Time exists so that everything doesn't happen all at once.
Space exists so that everything doesn't ha-ap-pen to you!


Hoping the stomach bug is short-lived (cafeteria related?) and not catching and she'll still be able to help with Tinker. Your daughter had the flu 10 days ago and somehow your son managed not to catch it, but now he did. Maybe the change of weather and then the excitement of the game had something to do with it? Also hoping you don't catch the flu. Adults tend to have better immunity from being exposed to more things over the years, so fingers crossed.

DD is in her first year at college and has caught every bug that's come along. New environment, new bugs. Super frustrating. DS seems to be much improved. His fever has come down significantly 102 Friday and Saturday to 99 this morning with no meds. DD is going to be home with Tinker Monday and Tuesday and then we'll be home for Thanksgiving. DS is determined to go to school and football practice.

Today is Tinker's first night without deramaxx. Right now he's madder than a wet hen because I won't let him on the bed. He's in his play pen like normal but I guess because he's not loopy, he's having a definite opinion about staying in there while we are on the bed. He settled down when I told him to stop the nonsense that it wasn't happening..... Mean ole momma over here!
Tough love momma, and Momma knows best!!! He understood you meant business! :lol: :trophy:

Here he is tonight. Furious with me and tried to escape out the hole. I scolded him and he settled down but refuses to look at me. Bless him!
Not looking at you because I'm mad
Not looking at you because I'm mad
He also pooped outside today. Definitely having a hard time realizing he has not finished his business. Squats to do it but doesn't finish before he's off to the next task or because he's ready to come in because it's turned off cold here. Hopefully that will improve with time.
Guess he doesn't have that degree of sensation yet. It's still very early. I agree, have to see how he's doing at 3 months and 6 months.

Mean ole momma is going to bed. This nurse is off duty.
I supposed it's better that they came down with their bugs now instead of the day before Thanksgiving. And since they had it now, they might be good through the Christmas and New Year holidays. Better days are coming!
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Re: Newbie but need support

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I wish I had a magic answer on the crating. Do you think he would like chew toys? Would he like his crate in a different location, such as by that window where he could see out?
:thinking:
Some dogs will just whine and cry. He's more like, "I'm not going to cry about being stuck in here, I'm going to do something about it!" I kind of admire his attitude, independent and not helpless, but then he chews. I don't know. I knew I was lucky when Dolly was so good about her crating, but this is making me appreciate it even more.
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Re: Newbie but need support

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quote=CarolC post_id=112119 time=1637640319 user_id=1373]
I wish I had a magic answer on the crating. Do you think he would like chew toys? Would he like his crate in a different location, such as by that window where he could see out?
:thinking:

We have tons of toys we have tried with him. Even a baby Kong with peanut butter. He isn't having any of it. DD has been home with him during the day and since it's just her, she let him out of his playpen yesterday because he was crying and throwing a fit - trying to jump, scratch, and bite his way out. She said, "mom he went straight to under y'alls bed and just stayed right there. He didn't move." I told her the goal was to rest him in his pen so he wouldn't move around so much. She told me he was scratching, biting, and jumping to get out, but once she let him out, he moved under the bed and stopped. She said he moved a whole lot more trying to get it than he did once he was under the bed. Under the bed head always been one of his favorite places. We are just going to have to do the best we can. I don't like it, but if it keeps him from hurting himself, I'm all for it.

Some dogs will just whine and cry. He's more like, "I'm not going to cry about being stuck in here, I'm going to do something about it!" I kind of admire his attitude, independent and not helpless, but then he chews. I don't know. I knew I was lucky when Dolly was so good about her crating, but this is making me appreciate it even more.
[/quote]

I do appreciate his tenacity. He has learned to not to try to go up the steps or down. He stops and waits for us to pick him up and carry him up or down. His absolute favorite remains for him to lay in his bed in the sunshine. He wants you to put his bed in the sunshine on his rug and he just lays there. DD sent me video today when they came in from pottying of him sitting on the heat vent in the sunshine. Tonight after dinner and pottying he decided to usurp his brother's bed.
King of the castle
King of the castle
He's such a spoiled rotten baby!
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Re: Newbie but need support

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coxmaria3 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:22 pm She said, "mom he went straight to under y'alls bed and just stayed right there. He didn't move." I told her the goal was to rest him in his pen so he wouldn't move around so much. She told me he was scratching, biting, and jumping to get out, but once she let him out, he moved under the bed and stopped. She said he moved a whole lot more trying to get it than he did once he was under the bed. Under the bed head always been one of his favorite places. We are just going to have to do the best we can. I don't like it, but if it keeps him from hurting himself, I'm all for it.[/color]
Certainly agree you don't want him jumping. If he wants to be under the bed and he'll be still, there's probably no harm in that. I suppose you could use an extra wide baby gate or x-pen to contain him to that immediate area. To prevent something unexpected. And to keep the other dog away from him until he's healed.

I've been using a 6-panel baby gate (120") for Dolly. I put her in front of the glass door to look out in the yard, and then I make it into a half circle around behind her. She doesn't care because she is interested in looking out the door, but at the same time I know she isn't going to try to come up the ramp into the kitchen or something and strain her neck again. For all I know she might only have to do that once. I don't want to find out.
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Re: Newbie but need support

Post by coxmaria3 »

When your brother usurps your bed, you do the same.
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Re: Newbie but need support

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Oh, that's hysterical! Tinker took the big bed, so Colonel is trying to fit in the small one. What a handsome dog he is, and your tree is beautiful. He's dreaming of a New Big Bed being under it, embroidered with His Name! :lol:
:xmastree:
All joking aside, it just occurred to me, can Tinker curl up like he used to? I wonder if he can't fit in the nest bed right now either. Maybe he's still protecting his sore area and doesn't want to curve his back too much, at least not yet. I haven't heard of that...but it might make sense. What do you think?
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Re: Newbie but need support

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CarolC wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:52 pm Oh, that's hysterical! Tinker took the big bed, so Colonel is trying to fit in the small one. What a handsome dog he is, and your tree is beautiful. He's dreaming of a New Big Bed being under it, embroidered with His Name! :lol:
:xmastree:
Thank you! Colonel has several beds but never uses them. He sleeps with DS every night in his bed. If you can see the recliner in the picture, that is the "bed" he most often uses. He frequently can be spotted sleeping on his back with his legs straight up in the air. He is as spoiled rotten as Tinker is, but unlike Tinker, he listens and obeys extremely well. They are the best boys!

All joking aside, it just occurred to me, can Tinker curl up like he used to? I wonder if he can't fit in the nest bed right now either. Maybe he's still protecting his sore area and doesn't want to curve his back too much, at least not yet. I haven't heard of that...but it might make sense. What do you think?
Yes, he still curls up, but does seem to enjoy stretching out on the big bed. It seems like he enjoys stretching out the more he recovers. Use to he really liked being in his nesting bed curled up, but now wants to stretch out. He rarely sleeps in his bed in his playpen any more, but prefers to wedge himself in between his bed and the side of the playpen, stretched out. I have no idea why. Honestly, I think he just does it to annoy his brother and because he thinks everything is his. Lol!

I am thinking about getting him started on some sort of joint supplement. Does anyone have a recommendation for little dogs? Preferably something OTC before I call the vet's office? I know they will have a recommendation but it won't be OTC.
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