Newbie but need support

Neurological Disorders Resources. Treatment and care for pets having pain or trouble walking or standing due to spinal injuries or neurological disorders like IVDD, FCE and DM.
coxmaria3
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Newbie but need support

Post by coxmaria3 »

My Shih Tzu - Tinker had to have emergency IVDD surgery 9 days ago on a Thursday. He is 12 years old. He was playing with his big brother in the yard and turned really quickly and was paralyzed in his back legs. We rushed immediately to the vet and he was in surgery within 2 hours. It was very tramatic and all a blur. I was a hysterical mess, but I do seem to remember them saying he did have deep pain. We live in a very rural area but our vet has had experience with IVDD surgeries. He in fact did an IVDD surgery on our Golden Retriever many, many years ago when he was hit by a vehicle. It was successful and he regained everything sans a bit of anal tone.

After surgery on Thursday, he came home on Wednesday night. We were told that had they waited to do the surgery the next morning there would have been no hope. When I visited him, he was not able to bare any weight at all on his back legs. Zero. I have seen improvement. As of today, he can stand with assistance on his back legs. I notice more resistance and muscle tone when I'm doing his motion exercises. He is definitely stronger on one side. He even urinated a bit on his own yesterday. However, he is not very motivated to do anything. But, he's never really been motivated to do anything, he has always been the lazy, spoiled, King of the castle who lays around and is babied by everyone. Today, as I was working with him, I thought, "my poor, poor baby will never walk again." He goes to our vet's office during the day for therapy and they say he is improving as well. I have read that it's a long road, but I thought maybe by now he would be able to stand more and have more control over his bodily functions.

I need a little pep talk and a little reality. Please help.
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CarolC
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Re: Newbie but need support

Post by CarolC »

Hi coxmaria3,

Everything you say actually sounds good. Vets might love to tell you about the dog that was walking the day after surgery but from what I've seen that's pretty unusual. At 9 days he's still got swelling around the surgical site, still probably has come pain (I would if I had back surgery 9 days ago). I don't blame him if he wants to take it easy, whatever his usual personality is. You are still in the very early days, as you said. If he is standing a little with assistance that is great. :hurray: And if he is getting some bladder control already after only 9 days, that's fantastic. Bladder control can take 3-6 months, and in some cases more, so 9 days is very encouraging. Woohoo! :D

You can thank yourself you did everything right as far as getting him straight to the vet, and they knew what they were doing and did surgery right away. If he never lost deep pain then I would feel more confident about the future, though dogs that lose deep pain can recover it, too. I am working with a little dog right now who shows all the signs of walking, but until he actually does I won't be sure, so I know how that is. You can see the signs but you won't quite believe it till it happens. Until then, you hope a little and worry a little every day. :waiting: In the meantime, he is healing a tiny bit more every day, in the background where you can't see it, even if some days (or weeks) he looks much the same.

You are so fortunate to have an arrangement where your dog can get PT every day. That's really cool! You may be in a rural area but you've got great resources. They do recommend crate rest after IVDD surgery, along with PT as directed by the surgeon. So if he wants to take it easy when he's not actually doing PT, I would let him. It takes 4-6 weeks for the surgical site to heal.

https://dodgerslist.com/2020/02/24/emer ... /%E2%80%8B

It really sounds like everything's good and getting better. Healing of nerve injury can be slow, but it doesn't sound like he's going to one of the super slow ones if he's already standing with assistance and urinating voluntarily (even partially) at 9 days. I think there are people who could only wish their dog was doing that well. The little dog I'm working with right now couldn't even hold his head up till about 3 1/2 months after his injury, and he is now walking with support leaning against a wall with no help from me.

Hang in there, I think you can hope for good things from your dog. You've done everything to give him the foundation for recovery, and my vet said sometimes the best medicine is Tincture of Time.

:group:
coxmaria3
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Re: Newbie but need support

Post by coxmaria3 »

Thank you for the welcome! It's just been a lot. When Tink injured himself, it was on the anniversary of my mother's death. Tink was originally her dog and came to live with us when she passed. He's been a blessing and joy to our family. Also, the day he injured himself was 2 weeks after we had to put our Lab - Bella down. She was 12 and had just decided she was tired and quit eating and drinking. We tried everything even appetite stimulants. Nothing worked. So as I was rushing Tink to the vet I literally thought, "if we have to put him down, I'm going to need some much stronger meds."

He's having a hard time staying in his play pen as he is beginning to feel better. He's always slept with us. Actually he's always been on and off the bed throughout the night. So this morning when he woke up whining to get in bed, I slapped a big diaper on him in case he pooped and put him in the bed between my husband and I for just a couple hours. When he woke up and stretched, I could feel his back legs pushing against me. Today was the first day he's been by himself for a couple of hours while we went to church and ate. When we got home, I immediately took him out to go potty and once I removed his diaper he started peeing and he had pooped in his diaper. I have no idea if the pee was because his bladder was so full and it just couldn't be contained or what. But he seemed to know what he was doing.

He's able to stand pretty well today, if he's motivated, and if he's supported. If he's sufficiently motivated he can stand just a bit on his own. He goes back to the vets tomorrow for PT, but that is going to have to stop because we simply cannot afford for him to go every day. They've talked to me about how to do water therapy once his stitches come out tomorrow. We are also building him a wheelchair/walker today that they recommended. I asked a about purchasing one and they said absolutely not at this point.

I just struggle. I know everyone does. I just want my baby to be better but I have to revive myself it's only been 10 days since he had his surgery. Thank you again for the positive thoughts and prayers.
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CarolC
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Re: Newbie but need support

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coxmaria3 wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 4:01 pm Thank you for the welcome! It's just been a lot. When Tink injured himself, it was on the anniversary of my mother's death. Tink was originally her dog and came to live with us when she passed. He's been a blessing and joy to our family. Also, the day he injured himself was 2 weeks after we had to put our Lab - Bella down. She was 12 and had just decided she was tired and quit eating and drinking. We tried everything even appetite stimulants. Nothing worked. So as I was rushing Tink to the vet I literally thought, "if we have to put him down, I'm going to need some much stronger meds."

I'm glad that didn't have to happen. Something good happened on the anniversary instead, he was saved. Your still have your other losses, but one was saved. And you've done this before, otherwise it would be even more daunting.

He's having a hard time staying in his play pen as he is beginning to feel better. He's always slept with us. Actually he's always been on and off the bed throughout the night. So this morning when he woke up whining to get in bed, I slapped a big diaper on him in case he pooped and put him in the bed between my husband and I for just a couple hours. When he woke up and stretched, I could feel his back legs pushing against me. Today was the first day he's been by himself for a couple of hours while we went to church and ate. When we got home, I immediately took him out to go potty and once I removed his diaper he started peeing and he had pooped in his diaper. I have no idea if the pee was because his bladder was so full and it just couldn't be contained or what. But he seemed to know what he was doing. It does sound like he was holding it till he could go out on the grass. That's great if that's what he did. :D It's also good that you were able to get out of the house and leave him alone for a few hours.

He's able to stand pretty well today, if he's motivated, and if he's supported. If he's sufficiently motivated he can stand just a bit on his own. He goes back to the vets tomorrow for PT, but that is going to have to stop because we simply cannot afford for him to go every day. PT is wonderful but it is expensive and you can do a lot at home. Maybe they can give you a list of exercises to do that are appropriate for him right now. He can't do more than the nerves are ready for anyway. But having professional support really helps if you can manage it once a week or whatever. My dog is going for a treatment every other week, but I am retired and can work with him at home every day. I've been sending videos to the vet between visits so they can see how he is doing. He does almost all his therapy at home. I didn't plan it that way but that's the way it worked out. :pardon: They've talked to me about how to do water therapy once his stitches come out tomorrow. We are also building him a wheelchair/walker today that they recommended. I asked a about purchasing one and they said absolutely not at this point. There are quite a few examples here of how to build a wheelchair if you need ideas. They say to wait at least 6 weeks to try a wheelchair. They want to be sure the dog is healed before putting him in a cart (except in cases where the dog is too big to handle without one). Carts can flip over so being sure the surgery is healed is a good idea. Hopefully he will end up not needing a wheelchair. A wheelchair can be used as a rehab tool, but with a dog this size you could do rehab with a good sling that gives him proper support, too. Even slings can be made at home and there are ideas here if you need them. Just ask if you want links.

I just struggle. I know everyone does. I just want my baby to be better but I have to revive myself it's only been 10 days since he had his surgery. Thank you again for the positive thoughts and prayers.

Yes, 10 days is still early, and he sounds like he's doing well for 10 days, but a lot of stress is packed into those first few days. It takes a toll because you care.

The worst part is over and it gets better as you go, but you probably are still feeling the after effects of the day he was injured, and the way everything is suddenly rearranged in all of your lives when you had no idea it was going to happen. But it sounds like you are making the best of it. It is really, really helpful that you've done this before. That doesn't make it easy, it just means you kind of know what you're doing and at least you don't have the added stress of trying to get up to speed on something that is totally new and unfamilar. You've kind of got a head start. Sounds like you whipped on a diaper like a pro! :trophy:

coxmaria3
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Re: Newbie but need support

Post by coxmaria3 »

Yes, not a wheelchair, but a walker for rehab. I used this model: https://www.handicappedpets.com/lanies- ... heelchair/ That was what was suggested by the vet's office. I am modifying it to just have a sling across his width rather than the 4 leg holes. We built the frame yesterday, but I couldn't wrap my head around the sling. Going to work on that today.

He gets his sutures out today and went for his last official PT day at the vet's office. They had already showed me some stretches and activities to do with him when I brought him home on Wednesday. I was just super concerned about not being at home with him all day (7-5) and getting in the necessary PT once I got home, but it is going to have to be ok. It is simply the best we can do. My MIL is retired and can check on him during the day, but I am not sure if she will be comfortable doing his PT.

He is still very sore and I can tell he gets sore from standing with support. I can only imagine having had significant back surgery less than 2 weeks ago. I noticed that his antibiotics were only for 10 days, but his DeraMaxx goes for 20.

I vaguely remember doing this with our Golden Retriever 20+ years ago, but I really seem to remember his injury being much farther towards his backside. He had to have his tail amputated, but I just know he came home walking and peeing/pooping on his own. Pooping was the only issue he ended up having. He could not void completely so he might just be strolling along and a piece would plop out unexpectedly - TMI I am sorry. I guess that is what I was expecting with Tinker. He would be at the vet's office for a week (only there for 6 days) and would come home and have a quicker recovery. I think that is what my husband and kids were expecting as well. We have just got to give him some time.
coxmaria3
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Re: Newbie but need support

Post by coxmaria3 »

Lord love a duck!!!!! I just picked Tink up from the vet's office. Noticed he wasn't wearing his belly band and took him immediately outside to pee. He stood on his own and I said the phrase we've used forever, "go peepee" AND HE DID! A LOT! So, I know he had been holding it. Now, he peed all over his foot because he didn't squat but holy moly I DON'T CARE!!! I gently snatched him up and went into the vet's and washed his foot off. :hurray:

He also stood very solidly on his own with no support. I'm so proud of the little booger!!! Also noticed that he's holding his tail higher. It's not just drooping all the time.

I swear being away from him gives me a little perspective rather than sitting all day watching every single move he makes or doesn't and fretting over ever single move he does, or doesn't make.
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CarolC
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Re: Newbie but need support

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coxmaria3 wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 1:42 pm Yes, not a wheelchair, but a walker for rehab. I used this model: https://www.handicappedpets.com/lanies- ... heelchair/ That was what was suggested by the vet's office. I am modifying it to just have a sling across his width rather than the 4 leg holes. We built the frame yesterday, but I couldn't wrap my head around the sling. Going to work on that today.

Oh, yes. That is very stable. It would be hard to flip that. It will be good to help him practice standing. One thing it took me forever to learn is, you don't have to do a super spiffy job on these projects you make for your pet. What matters is if they are safe and they work. The temptation is to do an elegant job, but he's only going to be using it for a while and he doesn't care whether you bind the edges etc, he only cares if he's comfortable. The one they made for Lanie looked like it came from a store, it was so neatly done, but most of us will produce something that looks more homemade. Doesn't matter as long as it works!
:sew:


He gets his sutures out today and went for his last official PT day at the vet's office. They had already showed me some stretches and activities to do with him when I brought him home on Wednesday. I was just super concerned about not being at home with him all day (7-5) and getting in the necessary PT once I got home, but it is going to have to be ok. It is simply the best we can do. My MIL is retired and can check on him during the day, but I am not sure if she will be comfortable doing his PT.

Will he be wearing a diaper during the day? One thing that can be helpful is to shave the bottom to make tidying him up easier if he soils his diaper. Many vets will do it even if they do not offer grooming, because this is for hygiene. Ask for a "sanitary clip".

Another possibility is to put him in a male wrap to catch any wetness, but let him be in his crate with his bottom bare. That way if he potties it hopefully won't be caked on his fur. You can make male wraps at home if you sew, too. There are instructions here if you need them, just ask. I have one dog, a female papillion(?) mix (nobody knows) who is dual incontinent and about 8.5 lbs. Since she's a female she can't wear a male wrap, she has to wear a diaper or nothing. I put her in her playpen with plenty of blankies and a bare bottom to air the skin and just pick up after her if she doodles. A dog that size does not wet a lot (is he under 15 lbs?) so you almost don't need a male wrap. Maybe your MIL could just change his blankets for dry ones at lunch time. Whatever is easiest for everybody.
:malewrap:

I would think doing a good PT session before dinner and then maybe a smaller one before bedtime would be plenty. I do not know (maybe you do) but I wouldn't be surprised if he's just getting 2 sessions at the vet. Right now you are probably mostly doing range of motion anyway.

I did PT 2x a day with my dog who had surgery for a spinal fracture and she recovered walking. I was working full time and had no one to help out, so 2x a day was all I could do, too. Like you said, we do what we can do. I think you'll be fine.

The dog I am working with right now (Pip) is different. He had a spinal stroke that left him quadriplegic. There is no surgery or crate rest recovery period for that. The recommended treatment for spinal stroke is aggressive PT. That's why I work with him frequently during the day.


He is still very sore and I can tell he gets sore from standing with support. I can only imagine having had significant back surgery less than 2 weeks ago. I noticed that his antibiotics were only for 10 days, but his DeraMaxx goes for 20.

I agree! I'd be feeling it for weeks! If you decide he needs it, you could ask to continue the pain meds, and if you feel like they aren't quite doing the job, you could ask for something stronger. They've been observing him while he was in PT so I assume if the meds weren't strong enough they would have adjusted them already, but after he is home the vet will rely on you to report how he is feeling.

I vaguely remember doing this with our Golden Retriever 20+ years ago, but I really seem to remember his injury being much farther towards his backside. He had to have his tail amputated, but I just know he came home walking and peeing/pooping on his own. Pooping was the only issue he ended up having. He could not void completely so he might just be strolling along and a piece would plop out unexpectedly - TMI I am sorry. I guess that is what I was expecting with Tinker. He would be at the vet's office for a week (only there for 6 days) and would come home and have a quicker recovery. I think that is what my husband and kids were expecting as well. We have just got to give him some time.

All I can think is, thank goodness this is your shih tzu and not your golden. I had a male golden retriever named Merlin who was down for 8 months and it was a lot of physical effort caring for him. There's no such thing as TMI here. :wink: When you have a spinal dog, incontinence is what most of us deal with all the time. I always say, thank goodness I enjoy doing laundry. :lol:
:wash: :laundry:
I can see looking at your golden's timeline and comparing it to Tinker's. Standing or almost standing at 10 days must seem slow compared to your golden with a sacral(?) or tail injury, but it sounds like good progress for a blown disk. I've been in that position where I kind of had to recalibrate my expectations based on what I was actually seeing. I don't think any of us can have an accurate idea of what to expect in the beginning because each case is going to be different anyway. :pardon:
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Re: Newbie but need support

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:whale: WOW!! What improvement!! :wow: :cheerleader:
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CarolC
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Re: Newbie but need support

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Ha! Don't I feel dumb! I must have been composing my 3:45 post while you posted your 3:38. Your update sounds great! Congratulations, Tinker! And you already have male wraps, duh!

I am so glad he is getting back on his feet. Still needs to take it easy and let it fully heal, but woohoo!!!
:newyear: :hurray: :yay: :ecstatic: :hurray: :yay: :party:
coxmaria3
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Re: Newbie but need support

Post by coxmaria3 »

I'm going to change the title of this thread to the "Adventures of Tinker."

Today was the first day he stayed at home by himself. He has a mesh playpen he's been staying in:
Playpen
Playpen
I came home at lunch and checked on him at 12:30. He was fine. Unhappy he was by himself, but fine. I worked with him for a little while and gave him his biscuit and put him back.

Came home at 5:00 to hear him barking which is totally normal. Except when I opened up our bedroom door and THERE HE WAS!!! HE CHEWED/SCRATCHED A HOLE BIG ENOUGH IN THE PEN TO GET OUT!!! So he drug himself around the bedroom for goodness knows how's long and the topping on that particular cake was he had pooped in his pen and had two balls stuck in his tail. :shock:

Snatched him up gently and took him outside to pee. No pee and no pee in his belly band. Cleaned him up. Shaved the hair off of the underside of his tail.

Brought him into the kitchen to eat on my rug so he could get traction to stand up, which he did. Then, he squatted to finish eating which is what he's been doing when he gets tired. Turned around to put the dog food back in the fridge and HE PEED EVERYWHERE! :shock: ALL OVER THE RUG! So here I am, the only one home with him, a HUGE HOLE in his pen, and pee everywhere. I have no where to put him to contain him because I know he's going to follow me wherever I go. So, I threw a sling together in his walker with some safety pins. Gently placed him in there and proceeded to break down. It just has to work right CarolC?

Now he's exhausted from his big adventures and resting in his playpen. With the big butt hole. Which he doesn't try to escape because we are here.
Tinker
Tinker
Don't let him fool you. He's not as pitiful as he looks. But he sure is exhausted!

My husband is now on his way to get a much smaller kennel for him to stay in during the day. :roll:
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CarolC
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Re: Newbie but need support

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coxmaria3 wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 7:14 pm I'm going to change the title of this thread to the "Adventures of Tinker."
After this, I can see why!

Today was the first day he stayed at home by himself. He has a mesh playpen he's been staying in: 5227277.jpeg
That is the same kind I got Pip, only his is smaller.

I came home at lunch and checked on him at 12:30. He was fine. Unhappy he was by himself, but fine. I worked with him for a little while and gave him his biscuit and put him back.

Came home at 5:00 to hear him barking which is totally normal. Except when I opened up our bedroom door and THERE HE WAS!!! HE CHEWED/SCRATCHED A HOLE BIG ENOUGH IN THE PEN TO GET OUT!!! So he drug himself around the bedroom for goodness knows how's long and the topping on that particular cake was he had pooped in his pen and had two balls stuck in his tail. :shock:

Snatched him up gently and took him outside to pee. No pee and no pee in his belly band. Cleaned him up. Shaved the hair off of the underside of his tail.
Oh wow, you shaved him yourself, good deal! I shave Dolly for the same reason and she seems to understand. I have a Wahl home haircutting kit, it's not even a pet clipper but it works. Critters calls those balls cling-ons. :wink:

Brought him into the kitchen to eat on my rug so he could get traction to stand up, which he did. Then, he squatted to finish eating which is what he's been doing when he gets tired. Turned around to put the dog food back in the fridge and HE PEED EVERYWHERE! :shock: ALL OVER THE RUG! So here I am, the only one home with him, a HUGE HOLE in his pen, and pee everywhere.
For that I would recommend an enzyme spray like Nature's Miracle or Simple Solution. They actually digest the urine so it's gone. They are both a little perfumey for a day or two, but the smell goes away in a few days. I used some Nature's Miracle for Pip not long ago on the living room carpet and it was better by the next day and you can't even tell where he wetted.
I have no where to put him to contain him because I know he's going to follow me wherever I go. So, I threw a sling together in his walker with some safety pins. Gently placed him in there and proceeded to break down. It just has to work right CarolC?
Yup! That's all it has to do. It just has to work. Good job! You can always make a more perfect version later if you really want to, but the way he's standing up, you might never have to. You broke down (I'm sorry, been there, too) but he is probably fine. If he had dragged around the bedroom for 5 hours his feet or knees or hips would probably have a red, raw carpet burn, and you didn't mention one. I'm guessing he dragged for a minute, then curled up by the door to wait for you, very happy with himself, and he'll be fine. :sleepingdog:

I know the feeling of, "We can make this system work if my dog will just cooperate" but the dog has no idea what that means.


Now he's exhausted from his big adventures and resting in his playpen. With the big butt hole. Which he doesn't try to escape because we are here. IMG_20211102_183933.jpg

Don't let him fool you. He's not as pitiful as he looks. But he sure is exhausted!
You may enjoy this old post about another dog, also named Tinker. He was a beagle who had IVDD surgery and could not walk, so they put him in a baby crib. You'd think that would be secure, wouldn't you?
https://handicappedpet.net/helppets/viewtopic.php?p=20191#p20191 wrote: Tinker was in his crib whenever someone was home but crated when left alone. I learned a frightening and valuable lesson when one day about a month after his surgery I left him in the crib (pushed next to the sofa for stability) to walk my other dog. I came back in to an empty crib. He had somehow climbed over the crib rail, onto the sofa and down and I found him in the kitchen getting a drink of water. And, at that point, he could barely stand much less walk. I couldn't believe it.
At least you didn't spend a lot on the popup, if it was like the one I got. I really thought Pip would chew his popup, too, and he may yet. When he was chewing his playpen, I managed to deter it by draping bath towels over the sides. When he could no longer see through the net, he did not try to chew it. However, the day may come when he pulls a towel down and that will be the end of the playpen. :roll:

My husband is now on his way to get a much smaller kennel for him to stay in during the day. :roll:
You have to laugh or cry. This was one of those days that will be a good story to tell someday. Right now I know you won't be able to relax till you are sure you have a system to contain him. He's cute in his picture. He just needs to learn what "rest" means!
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CarolC
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Re: Newbie but need support

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P.S. Sorry for double post but I thought of something a little while ago. If your popup has a zip off ceiling, maybe you could use that as a patch to patch the hole?
coxmaria3
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Re: Newbie but need support

Post by coxmaria3 »

I duct taped and we reinforced some seams on the playpen. We also got a smaller kennel from my SIL that she uses for her Shih Tzu. It's just seems really small, but also seems to be no smaller than the kennel at the vet's office. I was thinking he could stay in it during the day, but I'm just not sure.
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Re: Newbie but need support

Post by CarolC »

The wire crate sounds about the right size. Here is a guideline from Dodgerslist on what size of crate to use for crate rest.
https://dodgerslist.com/2020/05/14/strict-rest-recovery-process/%E2%80%8B" wrote:
Size of recovery suite

The size of the recovery suite, ex-pen, etc. should only be big enough to stand on all four legs, turn around and when lying down to fully stretch out legs. The recovery suite should not be big enough for a separate toilet area. Measurements would be approximately as wide as the dog’s head to tail length by 1.5 times the dog’s length. Pad out any extra room in the suite with a rolled up blanket as kind of a bolster to deter walking around in the suite area. A bolster makes a nice head rest.

Use a wire suite (rather than plastic or canvas) for a less isolating feeling.
I do not know if you are on a mobile devlce or laptop/PC. If you're not on mobile, then here is their old version of the same webpage, that is easier to read. I am attaching the pdf from the old link that gives full details on setting up the crate. It doesn't seem to be on their new version of the same webpage.

https://web.archive.org/web/20200604073 ... ateRRP.htm

This attachment is from Dodgerslist.

preppingcrate.pdf
(635.85 KiB) Downloaded 111 times
coxmaria3
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Re: Newbie but need support

Post by coxmaria3 »

Today on the adventures of Tinker:
1. The rigging of the playpen worked. I wedged it in between some items and placed towels over the window. He remained inside!! Yay!
2. Did have to have a minor clean up because he slipped his belly band and had a pee accident in his pen. I was later getting home and I absolutely hate that but they don't offer FMLA for dogs so we all have to work. They may have contributed to the accident. He also pooped and had some stuck in his tail hair. They shouldn't happen anymore because I cut off the long hair. He looks ridiculous but it is what it is.
3. He stood on his own, while he ate, for a solid minute. He even got wobbly and corrected himself.
Look at me Mom!
Look at me Mom!
4. He is trying to walk, but one side of his back legs is definitely not as strong in terms of feeling yet. The strong side he's started pulling away from me when I massage his foot. The other one, not yet. I put him in his walker for just a little while today and he's definitely trying to be on the move for treats. :applaud:
5. Have him a good bath and he's resting comfortably now.

Today was a good day! We'll see what tomorrow brings!
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