Newbie! Needing advice re knuckling and stiff feet

[CarolC]

Replies in blue...

Hi Carol

Thanks for the encouragement, yes it's great he's attempting to walk but I'm aware it probably won't happen again now for a while as that's how it seems to go.. one minute there's a breakthrough then nothing for ages. I'm sure he'd rather pull me around on the sling given the choice!

Boy does that sound familiar!

She went twice a week for over a month before she started moving her feet on the treadmill. A month later she stood up for a few seconds, but then never did it again for ages. All during her recovery, she would do something new, then not repeat it again until much later. Even though she stood up on that one occasion, it didn't mean she could stand up, she still couldn't.

For what it's worth, some members on this board have noticed that once you get to a certain point where the dog is walking a little, the pace of recovery seems to pick up. It might have seemed glacial before, but you start noticing those little improvements more often. Don't know if that will be the case with your dog or not. I am not a vet, but it kind of makes sense (to me) when you read this excerpt. It can take a long time for nerves to grow back, during which it appears on the outside that little is happening. But when it gets to the point where things start to reconnect, that's when you start to actually see the improvement that has been going on in the background the whole time. The PT you've been doing is helping maximize the recovery.

NERVE GAPS
On occasion, a short irreducible gap may be encountered without immediate provision for graft repair as described above. In these cases, an alternative approach may be to bring the nerve stumps as close as possible in a dry tissue bed and tack the stumps to the tissue bed with two epineurial sutures in each stump. This will create a nerve gap without continuity. This technique may be used for defects not exceeding 1 cm to 2 cm in length. Successful regeneration across nerve gaps has been reported in the dog and in children.

The biko brace and the new one you mentioned look really cool, I'm not sure like you if it's a good idea to use a cord between his toes where they are stiff. I think I prefer the boots because whenever he just uses his feet he manages to scrape the knuckles, even on the carpet. But it's a great idea and something to think about, if it helped with the wobbling on one side it would be useful

Something that really worked with my dog was walking down slopes. I don't know how this would work with the knuckling issue, but when you get the boot to keep him from flipping his paw, it might be worth a try. You'd have to sling him back up the slope, but going down he might be able to go solo.

I was reading some of the stuff on Dodgers list and it's made me think maybe I'm being a bit too impatient with his feet, it says they need to re learn how to place them once they can walk, so I don't know. I suppose I should just be so grateful he has got to this stage already, like you said it can take years.

All I know is, scraping up the toes is par for the course. Lots of boo-boos, and it's not surprising if it's driving you crazy, but you're in good company!

I will try and post some stuff on You Tube, but I'm not very good at it so bear with me! I'll let you know when I get the custom boots and hope they'll make a difference.

Would love to see it, if you can. That would be so cool.

[critters]

I'm not all caught up, but yes, SAM splints are easily cut. I figured Carol would dig up Koi's pics. Carol!

[JimmyMac12]

So I've finally managed to get round to posting some videos on Youtube, I hope they work! The first is wearing the maximus boots
[Youtube]https://youtube.com/shorts/f2nRgUegLRs?feature=share[/Youtube]

The theraband which helped is here
[Youtube]https://youtube.com/shorts/V5gr54jOAnc?feature=share[/Youtube]

I received the custom hunnyboots last week with cuffs and strong elastic banding and thermoplastic on the front of his left boot, looked really good and initially they worked really well
[Youtube]https://youtube.com/shorts/8al0oV9BYGg?feature=share[/Youtube]

However, 5 mins up the road and he was knuckling again, the thermaplastic fell out even though it was held in place with velcro and continued to fall out or fall to the side all the way on the walk. His boot fell to the left while he was knuckling and wore a hole in straight away Even with tape on! So since then I've been trying all sorts of ideas with the help of the PT to keep the plastic in place, more velcro, duct tape .. so far nothing is working.

I've even reworked his old maximus boots with new band but he still knuckles So I'm at the point now where I'm just trying to protect his foot, keeping on with the PT and hoping it will eventually come good.

The neurologist told me that as far as he was aware physio was the only option to try and get it right (other than surgery), so I'm hoping he's correct.

The last few days he seems more aware of his feet generally and is getting quite irritated by the physio and squeaking and getting in a tizz when I try and take his boots off. He's always been a dog who hates having his feet touched and would run away if he thought I was about to do anything like cut his nails, so I'm hoping this is a plus and he's getting more feeling back. He still lets me put the boots on with no problem as he knows then that he's going a walk He's dragged himself up on his own a few more times but is still very wobbly and can only take a few steps before falling over.. but I think we're getting there slowly..

I read your story Carol about your Chihuahua for the first time, thanks so much for sharing, all these stories really help keep me going on the days when I'm tired out and a bit depressed with it all. I'm sure it's helping so many more people as well

[CarolC]

Your situation with the boots reminds me of what I went through trying to get a harness. Pardon my language in the following quote, but I was really ticked.

I've had a problem getting a harness that will work for my big dog. I have ordered 3 harnesses and none of them worked. That was $35, $50, and $60-something. The first one I decided to keep because I thought I needed something, even something that didn't work too well, in a pinch. So I've got that one, but it's pretty useless if you want the truth. The second one was like the first and I planned to return it, but they had a 2-week return period and I missed it so I ate that one. The third one was never received. The company says they shipped it to the wrong address, but I asked at that address and nobody there knows anything about it. The post office claims they delivered it and it must have been stolen off my porch. I don't know what happened or who's to blame, all I know is I spent over $60 on a harness I never received, and I'm screwed again. And to top it off, I've now bought 3 blankety-blank harnesses, spent about as much as you're going to lose returning the wheelchair, and I still don't have a harness that will work. It gets to where you're ready to scream in frustration, how hard does one person have to try to get what they need???

I do not have an explanation for why products exist, that are made by companies that stay in business for decades, and they are recommended by people who used them successfully, and then when I try them, or you try them, they just Do Not Work. What I do understand is the investment of effort, hope, expectation, and then the feeling that you get when it doesn't work out. And you feel like you've gone above and beyond, and why can't anything work. And you barely have energy to spare to invest in a project that works. You have NO energy to waste on something that does not. And the only satisfaction you get at all is knowing you tried, and it might have worked. I am really sorry this boot project came so close and has currently bombed.

I love your videos, each one is perfect. (I love the smile on your dog's face.) In the Maximus Boots video, he's crossing a little, but really not bad. I'm almost surprised he isn't crossing more. In the Theraband video, you can see the difference, where he isn't crossing at all, but still knuckling. He was walking really well ***for as long as it lasted*** when he had the custom boot. I suppose that is proof of concept. It seems a little ridiculous it didn't last 5 minutes. They shouldn't give you something that comes apart, and I don't imagine they'd want that to be their reputation. They might like a chance to make it right for you. Did you contact TheraPaw and tell them they need to be sturdier? What did they say? Or were you just too "at wits' end and can't deal with it anymore" to write to them again? I wonder if they could rivet the plastic in the boot. Bummer that he wore a hole in that boot, but it wouldn't have happened if it had held together...right?

I can picture going through all the rigamarole of getting him harnessed up in all his gear, and then it only works for 5 minutes. I might not be as calm about it as you sound. But at the same time, I can see he is SO close to walking. His steps are good! Confident. Something's going right.

This may be no help to you, but I was working with a dog recovering from quadriplegia, and a 4-wheel cart didn't work for him because he hated it. He could move all 4 feet but was knuckling and seemingly had no balance at all. I discovered he COULD WALK if I stood him against a wall. The wall was all the balance he needed. I put a treat on the floor at one end of the wall, and stood him at the other end, and he walked to get the treat, leaning a shoulder against the wall for balance. Gradually he became aware of his feet and corrected them more. It really helped. It was a white wall and we wore a smudge onto it (oils from his coat) from twice daily leaning on it to walk. I don't know if there is anyplace available to you that would be several meters long and uninterrupted, that he coud lean against and try walking. It would be interesting to try it without all the apparatus. If he's going to knuckle with the apparatus, he might as well knuckle without it. Maybe I have the wrong attitude, but you know what I mean. Maybe just see how he does. I'm guessing he'd be on carpet or grass if it's a hallway or a garden wall, so it might be easier on his feet than pavement, but dogs can get boo-boos from grass, too, of course. He'd be bearing more weight. You know him best. I don't know how he'd do barefoot. You might need some kind of rear harness so you can turn him around to go the other direction at the end of the wall, but you wouldn't have to help him walk. I stood on the other side of the room till my dog reached the treat. I also let him stand there and enjoy it, because standing leaning against the wall was still exercise.

I'm honored that you read Katie's story. I sometimes feel some hesitation telling people the time it took us for her to walk, because a lot of people would think, "If it's going to take that long, forget it." Especially people working with larger dogs. I was inspired by a beagle named Murphy. At the time, for some reason I misunderstood and thought he was walking at 4 months, but it was actually 9. I was also inspired and helped by Rajah's Mom. Rajah was a 119 lb/54 kg Akita who had an accident November 2003 and was walking in December 2004, if I remember correctly. Rajah's Mom had dogged determination. Murphy's Dad had a really good long view about rehab. I didn't have either of those. It took my dog 9 months to walk and I had long since given up any hope and accepted that she would not, and we were just continuing to do PT because it was quality time for us and it was good for her. No one was more surprised than me when she began to walk again. You're not wasting what you're doing. You may be like me and call the progress glacial. But a slow recovery is still a recovery. And it seems that when your dog gets to a certain point, after months of very slow or very slight progress, then things start to fall in place more quickly.
for the videos. It is great to see him, and I do see everything you're talking about.

[JimmyMac12]

I do get completely what you're saying about the harness for your dog, you really do feel that there should be something out there that works! I think the problem I'm facing with the boots is his stiff foot, he is only ever putting the front two toes into the bottom of the boot so bringing his foot forward to walk is proving difficult, and I did explain this to the lady at therapaw, I sent pictures and videos and it was soooo frustrating that it did work and then didn't! To be fair to her I have been in touch since and she wants to see more videos of what happens with the boots and then will have another think.

I hear what you're saying about the wall idea, at the moment he leans on my legs. He's able to stand for really long periods now, it's just taking the steps he still gets his legs in a muddle. I will look out for a wall I can use! There is a field at the back of us that slopes downwards towards our house, I'm thinking of taking him up there and letting him loose to see what happens, and like you said, maybe doing more exercise on grass without the boots might help.

My next problem is that he's not tolerating the physio, leg movements and massage on his foot that I'm still doing at home. Depends what mood he's in, but he's definitely not liking me touching the foot so much now so there must be more feeling there. The first few months there was hardly any sign that he felt anything, now his head pops up every time I touch it So I'm hoping this is good, there does seem to be a tiny bit more flexibility in the foot when he's been using it, even knuckling so I'll remain hopeful.

[CarolC]

The dog I was getting the harness for was a golden retriever, which is such a common shape of dog that I thought any average harness should fit (ha!) but I was wrong. When your dog needs custom fitting, it's easier to understand if it might need tweaking. If you decide to send more videos or whatever to try to sort out the boots, my guess (or hope?) is the lady will not only look at them, but show them to co-workers. They might need to put their heads together and see who's had a dog like this, and what ended up working best.

I'm attaching a photo of the wall we used for Pip (my quadriplegic dog) so you can see the smudge from him going back and forth along the wall under the window. He gets regular baths, but dogs have oil in their coat. It washed off fine without damaging the latex paint. If you have wallpaper it may be different. I started him clear at one end, but I had to put the treat several feet short of the other end of the wall in case he lost his balance or his front legs tripped or gave out and he fell forward. (He has more trouble with his front legs than his hind legs.) I didn't want him hitting anything.

The other thing I did with Pip was sit-to-stands. At first I was standing him on all 4 feet against the wall, and he walked to get his treat. Then I realized, why not sit him against the wall, and let him stand up and then walk to get the treat. It worked. He had enough strength in his hind legs, he just needed the wall for that little bit of balance and he could DO it!

As for slopes, this is a side view of the sloping sidewalk we used the most, for Katie to walk down. There is a photo of it on the website, but it's easier to see the degree of the slope from the side. (It's a school.)

When we went to the athletic field behind the school (one of our favorite places), we'd park in the parking lot and I'd carry her to the grass and turn her loose and she'd go running out ahead of me and end up tripping and dragging almost every time. I was not aware that the area where this happened was such an uphill slope. Or if I was sort of aware of it, it didn't register how much it might matter. I don't think you necessarily pay attention to the ground rising and falling slightly when you're out walking. You're kind of looking around at the grass and trees and feeling the fresh air and walking without thinking. Here is a picture showing the place where this always happened. You can see the change in the grade easily on the photo from standing up at the top of it. For some reason, it was not as obvious to me when I was simply walking along through the area from the parking lot. But there was a good reason she would trip, as you can see if you compare the rise of the field against the level area where the ventilation equipment is. Or compare it to the roof of the building. I don't know if an uphill slope like that will affect a long-legged dog as much or not. I wish I had approached all fields and landscapes like a golfer checking the lay of the land, or a surveyor, instead of a common walker.

That's interesting about him objecting to you messing with his feet. It sounds like he must be getting feeling back. Pip has good use of his shoulders and elbows in his front legs, but doesn't seem to feel anything (??) in his feet. Nevertheless, he became able to fix his feet when wall walking. He was somehow aware of needing to get them pads down, and did it.


I just had an afterthought, which is 100% thinking out loud, not anything I know or have read or heard from anyone else who would know. I merely wonder if getting him in the grass, he might be able to dig his toes in and self-exercise those curling toes. I totally do not know. It didn't occur to me how much dogs dig their toes into things. I kind of pictured the foot more like a mitt? If that makes sense? But the toes are all articulated (or whatever I'm trying to say) and possibly grass would stimulate the use of them, dunno. I was extremely surprised when I was exercising Pip's front feet and he curled his toes in my hand, like digging in and gripping.

[JimmyMac12]

Hi Carol

Thanks for the advice, all really helpful. I have been taking him in the wheels up a quite steep slope which is near our house, I was thinking that going uphill would help strengthen his legs, I'm now wondering if maybe some of the walks have been a bit too much too soon? He always sets off well on his right foot, the better one, then can end up dragging that one too on the way back (not always), but maybe a lot of the dragging is tiredness setting in as his muscles still aren't up to it yet. We've not been going a great distance but have gradually built the walks up, for the sake of the other dog as well who doesn't like walking on his own! But I'm thinking shorter walks a bit more often if I can manage it might be better.

The therapaw PT told me to keep trying the thermoplastic in different ways, on the foot, inside the boot as well as outside as in theory it should work. So I tried taping it to the boot in various ways, no luck. Unfortunately over the weekend his foot swelled up so I had him on anti-inflams and wasn't able to put any boots on as he was so sore. I kept him on the garden but he managed to scrape his feet up and now has a large callus on the front of the left foot

However, today I managed to get some more boots on him with lots of padding and kept him to the garden to test them, and had some success! Whether this will continue once he hits the road again I'm not sure but I forwarded the video to the PT and she was impressed. I've basically used her idea on the old maximus boots which I had sewn up, put some new cord on them and band on the front so it's pulling him up all round and then managed to stick the plastic to the front with some strong sticky tape. Video link here:

[Youtube]https://youtube.com/shorts/OM1FDFuZno4?feature=share[/Youtube]

It took a while and lots of persuasion for him to get going, but he started getting some real pace up and was almost trotting and trying to run at one point (I didn't manage to video that ) No knuckling so far.. I think I might try the same idea with more cord attached to the hunnyboots and give them a try as well, but I realised that the maximus boots are flat and so don't wobble to the side as he knuckles, only backward which I think makes it easier, just wish I'd tried this before..

I think you're right about keeping to level ground, it was obvious he has more confidence when he's not knuckling, so if this continues to work I will try him on the garden without the wheels where it is flat and see what happens.. fingers crossed

[CarolC]

Replies in blue...

Hi Carol

Thanks for the advice, all really helpful. I have been taking him in the wheels up a quite steep slope which is near our house, I was thinking that going uphill would help strengthen his legs, I'm now wondering if maybe some of the walks have been a bit too much too soon? He always sets off well on his right foot, the better one, then can end up dragging that one too on the way back (not always), but maybe a lot of the dragging is tiredness setting in as his muscles still aren't up to it yet. We've not been going a great distance but have gradually built the walks up, for the sake of the other dog as well who doesn't like walking on his own! But I'm thinking shorter walks a bit more often if I can manage it might be better.
Maybe you can just put his feet in stirrups if he seems tuckered out on the way back? Or doesn't he like that? Did not realize you were wrangling 2 dogs on the walks. Shorter walks more often might be good, as long as you are not over-extending yourself, considering you're doing a lot already and you don't want to get exhausted. He's doing so well, it seems that whatever program or schedule you are on right now is working. Aggressive PT is recommended for a spinal stroke, but with a disk injury he's not going to be able to do more than the nerves are ready for, and working harder may not yield a lot of results. (Check that statement with your therapist, though, I am not a therapist.) I feel like steady PT over time is a good way to go. It can be hard to say, "I am doing enough", especially when you're not sure, and you're one of those conscientious people who wants to be sure you don't miss any opportunity for maximum results. It does just take time, but he's really getting there.

The therapaw PT told me to keep trying the thermoplastic in different ways, on the foot, inside the boot as well as outside as in theory it should work. So I tried taping it to the boot in various ways, no luck. Unfortunately over the weekend his foot swelled up so I had him on anti-inflams and wasn't able to put any boots on as he was so sore. I kept him on the garden but he managed to scrape his feet up and now has a large callus on the front of the left foot Bummer about the sore foot!

However, today I managed to get some more boots on him with lots of padding and kept him to the garden to test them, and had some success! Whether this will continue once he hits the road again I'm not sure but I forwarded the video to the PT and she was impressed. I've basically used her idea on the old maximus boots which I had sewn up, put some new cord on them and band on the front so it's pulling him up all round and then managed to stick the plastic to the front with some strong sticky tape. Video link here:

[Youtube]https://youtube.com/shorts/OM1FDFuZno4?feature=share[/Youtube]


Woohoo!!! To me it looks perfect! You would not know he had ever had surgery! His gait is AMAZING! Has much time passed between the video with the theraband and this one? Because he's not crossing at all in this one. I know you uploaded the theraband video a few days ago, but not sure when it was recorded.
It took a while and lots of persuasion for him to get going, but he started getting some real pace up and was almost trotting and trying to run at one point (I didn't manage to video that ) No knuckling so far.. I think I might try the same idea with more cord attached to the hunnyboots and give them a try as well, but I realised that the maximus boots are flat and so don't wobble to the side as he knuckles, only backward which I think makes it easier, just wish I'd tried this before..
So basically you're saying he needs a stability shoe, like they talk about in human walking shoes or running shoes? I never thought about it before, and now that you say it, Duh!!! Of course!
I think you're right about keeping to level ground, it was obvious he has more confidence when he's not knuckling, so if this continues to work I will try him on the garden without the wheels where it is flat and see what happens.. fingers crossed
Whatever you're doing, I would just keep it up, because he looks GREAT in that video. I am in awe, and I never say that, but it's true. He's a pretty dog, too. I can't even see his surgery scar. I guess his fur grew back really well, which is nice.

[critters]

I had to kiss many toads over my boy's contracted foot; even surgery didn't help long because she reconnected the tendon. I can't remember which company made the splint, and another made the custom shoes that finally worked. I can't remember which ones did finally work, not that that's any guarantee with your pup.

[JimmyMac12]

Thanks critters for telling me about the surgery not working and the boot working eventually, hoping I'm on the right track as I really don't want to put him through any more surgery unless all else fails.

And thanks for the praise, it's really helpful to know that other people can see a difference. Especially when, like you say, I'm never sure if I'm doing enough with him. The theraband video was just a few weeks ago. I'm not sure what is making the difference, whether it's the plastic on the front or the extra hold ups, but so far the boots are still working! And the past two days I've taken him quite a distance down our road with off roading onto the grass verges and ditches and his foot is staying upright! ok, so he's only walking on his front two toes but he's not knuckling or dragging which is a huge step. Just hoping they continue to work.

I've also located a wall in the house that I can use, just need to rearrange some furniture, so that's my next experiment!

[JimmyMac12]

Hi, just wanted to post an update on Jimmy's progress.. he is now walking on his own!

So it is about 8 months since his surgery, he is just walking at present around the garden and the house, unfortunately walking on his knuckles still and his back legs are very wobbly, but he manages to hold himself up, turn around without falling over and today even managed a bit of a trot, so I'm really encouraged by this and trying to allow him to do a bit more on his own.

I'm still walking him out in the wheels with boots. The boot for his stiff foot now doesn't work as well as it used to and he ends up dragging it I don't know why as it worked well for a long time.. but he still manages to walk a distance and is enjoying the walks which is the main thing. I'm waiting now for an appointment with an orthopaedic surgeon, just to look at his foot and see what he advises. It hasn't got any better in the last couple of months despite PT and massage so if surgery is the only way to go then we'll go with it. It seems the feet are the only thing hampering him now.

The wall didn't work BTW as he refused to lean on it But he obviously had his own ideas.. the first time he took off on the garden we were both surprised I think I still think we have a long way to go but at least there's now some light at the end of the tunnel! I'll keep you posted...

[CarolC]

Yay, Jimmy!!!


That totally rocks! No idea what might be going on with the boot. Maybe you could film him now and compare it to the previous video to see if you can see anything he's doing differently??

That's funny about the wall. They definitely have their own say in these matters. I'm very glad the grass worked out, and your story of when he finally walked sounds familiar.

It took my dog 9 months to walk a distance of 4 feet on the sidewalk. When she finally did it, I still do not know who was more surprised, her or me.

If he has foot surgery, I guess he'll be limping for a while. I wonder what recovery from that particular surgery is like. I wonder if there would be any advantage to letting him practice with his foot knuckling as it is a bit longer, to kind of lock in the walking ability, before he gets laid up with a bandaged foot. Don't know, but it sounds like he's doing great, and I bet he's very pleased with himself.

Congratulations to both of you! This is the best news! Really, really, really glad to hear it!!!

[critters]

I don’t remember Koi’s recovery from tendon surgery being terrible; in fact, he was more comfortable until the contractures came back (she tried to lengthen his tendons rather than just cutting them, as agreed).

[JimmyMac12]

Awww thanks Carol, he's getting on really well now with the walking, my only problem is getting him to stay outside long enough as he's so lazy He totters round a bit then runs back to the house to his bed.. yes runs now!! I think he's knuckling on both feet as it's easier because he can't put the stiff foot down, but he's definitely wobbling less and looking more confident. He comes in, goes round and round on his bed, plops down on his bottom and then sits there looking very pleased with himself!

I will post some videos of his boots when I get chance, the only thing I can make out is that the foot is just so stiff that it sends the boot to the side and then he drags it, the thermoplastic shifts to the side as well no matter how strongly I tape it. Before the boot just stayed in place, now it slips to the side almost straight away. His foot hasn't got any worse that I can see but is just no better. I have an appointment for this Friday with the specialist and they might do a scan so we'll take it from there.. I really don't want him to have surgery and then it puts him back with his walking, but I will ask these questions and hope I get some truthful answers! I hope like you said Critters, it will be a quick recovery time and make it more comfortable for him. He needs to be able to put it down so if it helps in the long run maybe having it done sooner rather than later would be better. Here's hoping we can get some answers..

[CarolC]

Replies in blue...

Awww thanks Carol, he's getting on really well now with the walking, my only problem is getting him to stay outside long enough as he's so lazy He totters round a bit then runs back to the house to his bed.. yes runs now!! I think he's knuckling on both feet as it's easier because he can't put the stiff foot down, but he's definitely wobbling less and looking more confident. He comes in, goes round and round on his bed, plops down on his bottom and then sits there looking very pleased with himself!

I'm just thinking what complicated footwork is involved with circling in a bed. He should be pleased with himself! And running! Woohoo!!!

I will post some videos of his boots when I get chance, the only thing I can make out is that the foot is just so stiff that it sends the boot to the side and then he drags it, the thermoplastic shifts to the side as well no matter how strongly I tape it. Before the boot just stayed in place, now it slips to the side almost straight away. His foot hasn't got any worse that I can see but is just no better. I have an appointment for this Friday with the specialist and they might do a scan so we'll take it from there.. I really don't want him to have surgery and then it puts him back with his walking, but I will ask these questions and hope I get some truthful answers! I hope like you said Critters, it will be a quick recovery time and make it more comfortable for him. He needs to be able to put it down so if it helps in the long run maybe having it done sooner rather than later would be better. Here's hoping we can get some answers..

I was thinking back to when Katie began walking. It had taken 9 months and it was in June. In October she was found to have a mammary low grade compound adenocarcinoma. It was removed but then the vet suggested spaying. She had been found paralyzed the previous year and I never spayed her because I was expressing her bladder. Now we were going to have to do it, but I was very worried the spay surgery would set her back on her walking. It didn't. In fact, she did fantastic. Hopefully Jimmy will sail right through, too.

At 10:30 this morning, about 48 hours after her spay surgery, she was up and walking, following me from room to room as I did chores. She also hopped down to the sunporch level (a 6" drop) 3 times and asked to be brought back up 3 times. This surgery has not hurt her ability to do reflex walking, thanks be. She is now eating a rawhide twist as if she never had a tooth pulled.