New here, are there good signs for IVDD recovery?

[gainesm]

Hello,

This is my first post here, I’m wondering if there things to look for or things that should be occurring on the way to non-surgical recovery from IVDD?

My 13yr old beagle went from normal to all 4 legs paralyzed 13 days ago. I got her to vet within 30 minutes of realizing she couldn’t stand up. He said IVDD and we decided on conservative treatment (anti-inflammatory and pain meds) since she had deep pain and superficial pain sensation in all 4 paws, but was knuckling in all of them.

She has kept full bladder and bowel control the entire time and it seems like she is improving some each day. She is now moving all 4 legs on her own, but is still unable to stand or walk on her own. She seems to have much better movement in her front and back right legs than in her left front and back, which seems odd compared to what I’ve read others say.

About 5 days after it happened she began to lift her body into a sort of sphinx position from lying on right her side, and 4 days after that she started to do the same when lying on her other side.

2 days ago she began to wag her tail when she saw me, which made me wonder - are any of these things indicative of her potential for recovery? Are there things I can watch for to gauge for recovery? I’m told it would be 6 to 8 weeks before she can be off bed rest, so was wondering if her current progress is actually progress or just wishful thinking?

[CarolC]

Hi gainesm,



Replies in blue. A quick reply at the top, to your main question. I am not a vet but it sounds like she's doing really well, and I'd be very pleased if it was my dog.

Hello,

This is my first post here, I’m wondering if there things to look for or things that should be occurring on the way to non-surgical recovery from IVDD?

My 13yr old beagle went from normal to all 4 legs paralyzed 13 days ago. I got her to vet within 30 minutes of realizing she couldn’t stand up. He said IVDD and we decided on conservative treatment (anti-inflammatory and pain meds) since she had deep pain and superficial pain sensation in all 4 paws, but was knuckling in all of them.

Do you have any idea what happened that might have caused her paralysis? Did she jump off a chair or run through a doggy door or get jumped on by a playmate, or anything that you know of? I'd be interested in what kind of tests were done to determine it is IVDD. Beagles are one of the breeds that tend to get IVDD, but that does not necessarily mean it's what she has. I have a dog with a neck problem who was quadriplegic. He was misdiagnosed by a board certified neurologist because she only did an office exam and didn't do imaging. It takes advanced imaging to be sure whether you are dealing with a disk problem (IVDD) or a spinal stroke (FCE), or something else. Disk problems in the neck are usually painful. Pain from FCE tends to resolve after the first day or two and does not continue.

She has kept full bladder and bowel control the entire time and it seems like she is improving some each day. She is now moving all 4 legs on her own, but is still unable to stand or walk on her own. She seems to have much better movement in her front and back right legs than in her left front and back, which seems odd compared to what I’ve read others say.

That's great news about the bladder and bowel control. Depending on how a disk is bulging (assuming it is IVDD), it can affect one side more than the other if the disk puts pressure on one side of the spinal cord more than the other. You don't hear about it as often, but it definitely happens, and there have been a number of dogs here like that. An FCE can also affect one side more than the other.

I would suggest from a practical point of view, you want to be a little careful during recovery with one side weaker than the other, versus a dog that is strong in both front legs, and paralyzed in the hind legs. A one-sided dog is more likely to fall over (which isn't ideal for a recent neck injury), while a rear paralyzed dog is more likely to fall into a sit or collapse onto one hip, which is less of a fall. You can't stop her from beginning to stand and maybe falling while in her crate, but you could help her when you take her out to potty. You normally get a rear harness for a rear paralyzed dog, but if she's weaker on one side at the moment, I would think either a double (front and rear) harness or a full body harness would be more effective.

About 5 days after it happened she began to lift her body into a sort of sphinx position from lying on right her side, and 4 days after that she started to do the same when lying on her other side.

That's great! Especially that she can do it from either side.

2 days ago she began to wag her tail when she saw me, which made me wonder - are any of these things indicative of her potential for recovery? Are there things I can watch for to gauge for recovery? I’m told it would be 6 to 8 weeks before she can be off bed rest, so was wondering if her current progress is actually progress or just wishful thinking?

Yay for wagging! Yes, good progress. It sounds like she's doing wonderfully well! It is very hard to say about the 6 to 8 weeks timeframe. This may sound like going off on a tangent, but just for what it's worth...6 to 8 weeks is what they commonly say for rear paralysis. It may be longer than that for a cervical injury. My vet said it is difficult to really rest a dog with a neck injury because even when you crate them, the dog is always looking around, watching activity, so the disk does not get a proper chance to heal.

When my Dolly was having neck problems, he recommended I crate her in a place where she would NOT be looking around. I ended up putting her at the remote side of a bedroom, where in order to see anything that was going on in the house, there was only one direction she could look, which was toward the bedroom door. It worked really well. She laid in her crate and pointed her head one direction, and there was nothing in her room to the left or right to be looking around at. That was good advice.

I guess the vet probably told you that neck injuries are special. If she ends crate rest before the disk is fully healed (assuming it is a disk problem) and resumes activity too soon, she could re-injure herself, and possibly have even worse symptoms than before. In a worst case, it could require emergency surgery or even be life-threatening, because an injury in the neck affects everything below it, including the muscles that control breathing. If she actually has a spinal stroke (FCE) and not a disk injury (hard to know without imaging) then there is less to worry about during recovery, because all of the damage that was going to be done, was done at the time of the injury, and you don't need to be super careful about not making it worse (like you do with a disk).

If you have the opportunity, hydrotherapy would be a good way to help her rehab after her injury. It's safe because the water will hold her up so she can't fall over and jar her neck. Some rehab places have pools, and some have an underwater treadmill. The underwater treadmill is great exercise, and safe, so that might be a good option ***after*** she has completed her time of crate rest, and after the vet says she is allowed to exercise. So you have a couple of months to look around and see what is available in your area, if you are interested. If not, then rehab (after crate rest is done) using a double harness or full body harness or a 4-wheel wheelchair (also called a quad cart) will also protect her from falls that might aggravate her neck.

Hope something in this helps. It sounds like you have good reason to be optimistic. You may want to spend some time thinking ahead about ways to prevent her injuring herself once she is walking again. They usually say IVDD dogs should not be allowed to get on furniture, or do stairs, and some people install ramps and baby gates, etc. Dogs may need to be kept separate from the other family dogs (if they are active and playful) to be sure they are not reinjured during play. Dogs with neck problems do better with a harness instead of a neck collar. If you need ideas for making your house safe for IVDD, there are some links here, just ask.

[critters]

[gainesm]

Do you have any idea what happened that might have caused her paralysis? Did she jump off a chair or run through a doggy door or get jumped on by a playmate, or anything that you know of? I'd be interested in what kind of tests were done to determine it is IVDD. Beagles are one of the breeds that tend to get IVDD, but that does not necessarily mean it's what she has. I have a dog with a neck problem who was quadriplegic. He was misdiagnosed by a board certified neurologist because she only did an office exam and didn't do imaging. It takes advanced imaging to be sure whether you are dealing with a disk problem (IVDD) or a spinal stroke (FCE), or something else. Disk problems in the neck are usually painful. Pain from FCE tends to resolve after the first day or two and does not continue.

No clue. She woke me that day at 6am to go potty and all was normal. By 8:30am she was having trouble standing with her rear legs but once we helped her up she seemed fine. Within an hour from that she could not use any of her legs. She had no meaningful interaction with any other animals in this period, but I do recall her reacting spastically to me sneezing (a common thing with her) prior to seeing her paralyzed.

No imaging was done due to costs and we could afford either X-rays or bloodwork but not both and vet said X-ray wouldn’t affect treatment plan while bloodwork results could. The vet did purely physical exam and said he believed it was IVDD and probably cervical due to front leg involvement - but he did say he couldn’t be sure esp as my beagle let him flex her neck (gently). That said, she’s a pretty stoic dog and doesn’t let pain show, usually, but she never had any trouble moving her neck around to see anything since the moment it happened.

But, I’m not sure it was her neck, tbh. About 3 days after the injury I noticed general swelling going down in her upper back and a GIANT knot to the immediate left of her spine located about 2.5” to the rear and above her left shoulder (if you drew a horizontal line from her left scapula toward her rear you’d go about 2.5” then straight up from there right next to her spine). I think is the thoracic area so she probably had pain/swelling effecting even her neck muscles, that’s just my guess of course. I know imaging is the only way to know for sure, and I wish I could afford it. Anyway, that knot has been slowly shrinking a little each day and is still there but is significantly smaller than it was when I first found it. Perhaps this is the reason she is weaker on that side?

That's great news about the bladder and bowel control. Depending on how a disk is bulging (assuming it is IVDD), it can affect one side more than the other if the disk puts pressure on one side of the spinal cord more than the other. You don't hear about it as often, but it definitely happens, and there have been a number of dogs here like that. An FCE can also affect one side more than the other.

I would suggest from a practical point of view, you want to be a little careful during recovery with one side weaker than the other, versus a dog that is strong in both front legs, and paralyzed in the hind legs. A one-sided dog is more likely to fall over (which isn't ideal for a recent neck injury), while a rear paralyzed dog is more likely to fall into a sit or collapse onto one hip, which is less of a fall. You can't stop her from beginning to stand and maybe falling while in her crate, but you could help her when you take her out to potty. You normally get a rear harness for a rear paralyzed dog, but if she's weaker on one side at the moment, I would think either a double (front and rear) harness or a full body harness would be more effective.

Okay. So, the one-side thing isn’t necessarily abnormal. That’s good to know. It does make it awkward to try to help her during potty time, though. Today, while holding her up she took a step with a back foot which was great to see, but she is still knuckling in front, which is confusing since she’s using her front legs a lot as she adjusts herself when resting.

Yay for wagging! Yes, good progress. It sounds like she's doing wonderfully well!

…It sounds like you have good reason to be optimistic.

Oh good, I’m glad to hear this - I guess I was hoping to get some input on what these little perceived moments of progress indicate, but it’s comforting to have someone experienced with a paralyzed dog say it seems hopeful.

If I had the funds I’d do everything I could for my pupper, but until I’m working again all I can give her is all the manual help, love, and encouragement possible. I hope it will be enough, I feel so guilty about not being able to do more.

[CarolC]

Replies in purple...

Do you have any idea what happened that might have caused her paralysis? Did she jump off a chair or run through a doggy door or get jumped on by a playmate, or anything that you know of? I'd be interested in what kind of tests were done to determine it is IVDD. Beagles are one of the breeds that tend to get IVDD, but that does not necessarily mean it's what she has. I have a dog with a neck problem who was quadriplegic. He was misdiagnosed by a board certified neurologist because she only did an office exam and didn't do imaging. It takes advanced imaging to be sure whether you are dealing with a disk problem (IVDD) or a spinal stroke (FCE), or something else. Disk problems in the neck are usually painful. Pain from FCE tends to resolve after the first day or two and does not continue.

No clue. She woke me that day at 6am to go potty and all was normal. By 8:30am she was having trouble standing with her rear legs but once we helped her up she seemed fine. Within an hour from that she could not use any of her legs. She had no meaningful interaction with any other animals in this period, but I do recall her reacting spastically to me sneezing (a common thing with her) prior to seeing her paralyzed.
That's interesting about her reaction to the sneezing before it happened. They say with older dogs the disks tend to be come more dry or brittle, so possibly she jerked somehow and that was enough to damage a disk a little. (again I am not a vet)
No imaging was done due to costs and we could afford either X-rays or bloodwork but not both and vet said X-ray wouldn’t affect treatment plan while bloodwork results could. The vet did purely physical exam and said he believed it was IVDD and probably cervical due to front leg involvement - but he did say he couldn’t be sure esp as my beagle let him flex her neck (gently). That said, she’s a pretty stoic dog and doesn’t let pain show, usually, but she never had any trouble moving her neck around to see anything since the moment it happened.
Well, that's good news, that she can move comfortably. That must be making all of this a lot more bearable. And on top of that, she's improving. They say x-rays are not well suited to show a disk problem anyway, so it would have had to have been the super expensive MRI or CT. Blood tests are expensive enough nowadays. I just had a senior panel done this week and it was $408.
But, I’m not sure it was her neck, tbh. About 3 days after the injury I noticed general swelling going down in her upper back and a GIANT knot to the immediate left of her spine located about 2.5” to the rear and above her left shoulder (if you drew a horizontal line from her left scapula toward her rear you’d go about 2.5” then straight up from there right next to her spine). I think is the thoracic area so she probably had pain/swelling effecting even her neck muscles, that’s just my guess of course. I know imaging is the only way to know for sure, and I wish I could afford it. Anyway, that knot has been slowly shrinking a little each day and is still there but is significantly smaller than it was when I first found it. Perhaps this is the reason she is weaker on that side?
Possibly. There might be someone who could read the description of the knot and know right away what that is/was, but it is unfamiliar to me. I guess it wasn't there when the vet examined her. There is a neuro test called panniculus where they poke the dog with needles (gentle pin pricks) to try to narrow down the location of the injury. I wonder if the vet did that test and possibly she reacted to a poke somehow and developed a fluid filled cyst or something? That is total speculation. I guess if he did any vaccinations or injections, you would know.

That's great news about the bladder and bowel control. Depending on how a disk is bulging (assuming it is IVDD), it can affect one side more than the other if the disk puts pressure on one side of the spinal cord more than the other. You don't hear about it as often, but it definitely happens, and there have been a number of dogs here like that. An FCE can also affect one side more than the other.

I would suggest from a practical point of view, you want to be a little careful during recovery with one side weaker than the other, versus a dog that is strong in both front legs, and paralyzed in the hind legs. A one-sided dog is more likely to fall over (which isn't ideal for a recent neck injury), while a rear paralyzed dog is more likely to fall into a sit or collapse onto one hip, which is less of a fall. You can't stop her from beginning to stand and maybe falling while in her crate, but you could help her when you take her out to potty. You normally get a rear harness for a rear paralyzed dog, but if she's weaker on one side at the moment, I would think either a double (front and rear) harness or a full body harness would be more effective.

Okay. So, the one-side thing isn’t necessarily abnormal. That’s good to know. It does make it awkward to try to help her during potty time, though. Today, while holding her up she took a step with a back foot which was great to see, but she is still knuckling in front, which is confusing since she’s using her front legs a lot as she adjusts herself when resting.
Possibly when she adjusts herself when resting, she is not dragging her foot forward in the same way. Or it could be that the grass was helping flip her paw under if she lightly skimmed the top of the grass. It might take very little to do that right now. But that is super-super good news she is using them in her crate when resting. I'm not sure what you might be using for a harness, but you could use something like a long winter neck scarf under her belly, and then in front an ordinary chest harness with a leash. That way you can support her front and rear, if you aren't already. If you've been doing this for over 2 weeks, you likely have all that worked out already.

Yay for wagging! Yes, good progress. It sounds like she's doing wonderfully well!

…It sounds like you have good reason to be optimistic.

Oh good, I’m glad to hear this - I guess I was hoping to get some input on what these little perceived moments of progress indicate, but it’s comforting to have someone experienced with a paralyzed dog say it seems hopeful.
Recovery from paralysis tends to be by baby steps, like you are seeing.
If I had the funds I’d do everything I could for my pupper, but until I’m working again all I can give her is all the manual help, love, and encouragement possible. I hope it will be enough, I feel so guilty about not being able to do more.
When this forum started I don't think anybody had access to professional PT (it had barely been invented) and everyone did it at home. Either home PT or taking the dog to the lake or a backyard swimming pool, not to a rehab place. Murphy's Dad swam Murphy (beagle) in a horse rehab pool. I did the first 5 months of PT for my dog at home because the PT place wouldn't take us. (We were dealing with a slower recovery than your dog.) We invented our own exercises and enjoyed it and it was good for her. You can definitely do it yourself if needed after she's done with crate rest.

[gainesm]

So really good news - I took my beagle in for a follow up (as it’s been 2 weeks) and the vet said he is very optimistic she will recover her ability to walk. He said she has made fantastic progress in these 2 weeks and wants me to keep doing what I’ve been doing. He thinks in the next 2 to 8 weeks she could be walking again!

He also said the knot next to her spine is located in just the right place to cause all the issues, and that there doesn’t seem to be any permanent effect based on her ability to utilize all her legs and the fact she kept sensation in all her paws as well as full bladder and bowel control.

He said with her progress, the order in which the physical problems appeared should start resolving in reverse order (makes sense, I guess), and the last thing to resolve will be her front paw knuckling.

[CarolC]

That is great news! Woohoo! And so interesting about that lump. I guess he didn't say what it was or what caused it? But he agreed it could affect the front legs, too. If he ever tells you the name of it, I'd love to know. Happy for you and your dog! Please give her an extra pat for me!

[gainesm]

I’ll ask him about the lump, specifically what it’s called, the next time we go in. I’d like to know, too, and I didn’t stick on it at her appt b/c I got so excited when he gave me the good news. Hah!

[CC4PHOEBE]

Hi - I'm new and have a yorkie 6weeks post op IVDD. My life is changed and this is a 24/7 job. I miss my pet in the bed and having her snuggle with me. She is completely dependent on us for everything. She can do great things on the sling and can stand for a very short period. She's has numerous UTIs. She's in PT and they say she will walk. Lately she's been wanting to lay down when on the sling. I don't know if she's tired or can't support herself. We catch glimpse of her trying to pick up her behind and take little steps. She's quick and scoots if I turn my back for a second. Where is everyone's pet now that they can't put them in the bed? Does life go back to normal? I'm exhausted I've been sleeping on a mattress on the floor for 6 weeks. She doesn't sleep. Even on the meds. T
This is hard.

[CarolC]

Hi CC4PHOEBE,



You didn't say, but I am assuming your Yorkie had surgery on her back and not on her neck? I would talk to the surgeon about the bed. I am not a vet, but my understanding was that after surgery, there is a period of crate rest prescribed by the surgeon, but it is not forever. You wouldn't want her in bed while her surgery is healing, but the surgeon may (possibly, or may not) allow it later.

The absolutely critical thing would be to ensure she does not jump off the bed, and I don't know if you could guarantee that. That is how many dogs end up with disk problems in the first place. One of the moderators here built a frame around her bed (her dog was epileptic) so the dog would not fall off. It may not be everyone's idea of interior decorating, but it worked. You'd want to be sure it was high enough that she wouldn't jump/climb over it.

Some people use a ramp for the bed. Again, this depends on the dog using the ramp and not jumping off the side of the ramp, which I wouldn't necessarily trust.

When my chihuahua had spinal surgery, I put her in a small 18" crate and put the crate in bed with me. I don't think that is what you want, you want to snuggle, but I'm just remembering I did that. It allows you to be face to face even while the dog is on strict crate rest.

Another good option is a playpen by the bed, so you are in your bed, sleeping well, and she is right next to you, also sleeping well in her playpen. This is what I ended up doing long term with my dog. Playpens are wonderful!

I sleep on a futon on the floor, but it is a comfortable one. That might be a safe option if you're willing to change sleeping arrangements for your little dog. I really don't know why she doesn't sleep. Could it be she's sleeping all day while you're at work? No wonder you're exhausted. This is exhausting anyway, but if you don't get any sleep it's even more so. There's a reason there are so many sleepy smilies on this forum!

Could you and your partner alternate nights of staying with her, and one of you sleep in the normal bed and one on the floor, so you get a good night's sleep every other night at least?

If the problem of sleeping in bed is due to incontinence, two options are doggie diapers or a drag bag. They make some super cute diapers, especially for little dogs.

Did they have you expressing her bladder? That could help prevent UTIs, in case she isn't emptying completely. Some dogs have partial bladder control, so they urinate voluntarily but may not empty completely. You can't really tell if she is emptying completely or not, unless someone who knows how to express a bladder expresses the dog right after she urinated, to see if any urine is left. Bladder control is likely to improve, you are still in the early days.

Yes, it's hard. It's hardest at first and you're getting past that part. It sounds very encouraging that she is going to walk, and is even standing briefly already! Woohoo!!! Better days are coming!