Hey, it's me again!
To give a little recap: Fox had a prolapsed disc one year ago. He underwent surgery and since then he is paralyzed in his back legs. Two months ago he got his wheelchair and life has been pretty good since then!
Well... until a few weeks ago. My husband and I still do some exercise with his legs. 3 times a day we move them, so they don't get stiff. We also went to physical therapy once a week, but we have been reducing the visits in the last 2 months because Fox doesn't seem to get better than his current state and that's completely fine. (He has feeling in both legs and can swing them when he's walking)
Now I have encountered a pretty particular problem. While doing the movement with his left leg he started whining. The left leg is the one with the most feeling, but it's also extremely stiff and spastic since the surgery. I went to the vet and apparently his kneecap keeps on jumping out. She guessed that he may have had this problem before the paralyzation and that it's now getting worse because of the spasticity. The physical therapist couldn't really say much more than that either. He got some pain meds, I didn't do exercise for a day and then started moving his leg again. Since then he didn't whine again - because the kneecap is completely loose. It doesn't get back inside on it's own. So now the options are to operate him again, on a leg he's probably never using again or to let the leg go stiff. I could still try to do the exercises, but it could hurt him sometimes.
I personally don't want another operation for him. He was extremely traumatized after the last one and he probably will never walk again anyway, so it's not like he loses any mobility.
I just wonder - are dogs fine if their leg is completely stiff? Do any of you have experience with this? My vet said in her experience dogs don't really mind. I'm just worried that it could hurt him. But I guess it's one pain or the other.
Paralyzed dog with knee problems...
Re: Paralyzed dog with knee problems...
Hi Donybelle,
I don't really have an answer, just some comments. It's such a shame he has this situation on top of the other, or as a result of it. I can understand not wanting to operate if you think he's never going to walk again. For what it's worth, and I know you've heard this before, dogs do continue to recover for literally years. Some examples are here, and since he has feeling in both legs I wouldn't rule it out. But this does complicate things somewhat, doesn't it.
viewtopic.php?p=113527#p113527
If he was really traumatized after the last surgery, that matters. For what it's worth, I can only repeat what I was told by one of my vets a very long time ago when my dog had luxating patellas. She said they fix it all the time, and made it sound like a simple surgery. She said they go in and file a crevice or channel in the bone deeper so the ligament (or something--sorry that may be the wrong term) holding the kneecap in place won't jump out so easily. Anyway, nothing on the scale of a spinal surgery, but surgery is still surgery. I do not know how recovery would be if he is spastic in his leg. I think you'd need an expert to assess the spasticity and see if he is likely to do something spastic that would spoil the surgery before it had time to heal, if you for some reason decided to do it.
Anyway, I do have a dog with a stiff leg. It's like a peg leg. She was that way when I adopted her at 7mos old and we did a lot of PT to see if she could regain movement, but didn't get much improvement. I think it was already pretty set by then. Her problem was not a luxating patella, it stemmed from a spinal condition affecting the nerves in her hindquarters. They talked about amputating her leg, and I chose not to and I'm glad I did. She still uses it in her way. She can scratch the back of her head with that foot if she bends her head. Her leg still moves from the hip, so when she scratches it makes a scratching motion without bending at the knee. I think it must be wonderful for her to be able to have the satisfaction of doing that.
After 13 years of being like this with only one hind leg, and it being stiff, eventually she began to get neck strain from leaning forward to "walk" like she does. But if your dog is a wheelchair dog, I don't think he'll have that problem, his neck will be in a more normal position when he walks in the cart.
My dog with the stiff hind leg does not use a wheelchair. You might want to think if that is going to affect your ability to get your dog in and out of the cart. However, I saved a photo of a dog with a "peg leg" as I call it very similar to my dog's, and the dog is using a cart, so it shows a dog can still use a wheelchair with a stiff leg. This dog has 2 hind legs that don't bend and is using a wheelchair.
viewtopic.php?p=112529#p112529
There is also a genetic condition in some German Shepherds resulting in "straight leg shepherds" where their hind legs don't bend. One of our moderators, Joanne, did a great video of her straight leg shepherds playing in the snow. I think you'll love it!
Don't know if any of this helps. My dog is a female, so I'm not sure how it will affect his toileting.
Wish I could be more help. I'm sorry he's having a knee problem. We do get in some unique situations with our handicapped pets. It has to be disappointing to have this come on top of everything else. I am sorry you couldn't just have one issue to deal with. I think whatever you choose will be for a good reason and it will be the right thing. Whatever you choose, I hope you get even better results than you expected.
((( Big hugs to Fox and his family! )))
I don't really have an answer, just some comments. It's such a shame he has this situation on top of the other, or as a result of it. I can understand not wanting to operate if you think he's never going to walk again. For what it's worth, and I know you've heard this before, dogs do continue to recover for literally years. Some examples are here, and since he has feeling in both legs I wouldn't rule it out. But this does complicate things somewhat, doesn't it.
viewtopic.php?p=113527#p113527
If he was really traumatized after the last surgery, that matters. For what it's worth, I can only repeat what I was told by one of my vets a very long time ago when my dog had luxating patellas. She said they fix it all the time, and made it sound like a simple surgery. She said they go in and file a crevice or channel in the bone deeper so the ligament (or something--sorry that may be the wrong term) holding the kneecap in place won't jump out so easily. Anyway, nothing on the scale of a spinal surgery, but surgery is still surgery. I do not know how recovery would be if he is spastic in his leg. I think you'd need an expert to assess the spasticity and see if he is likely to do something spastic that would spoil the surgery before it had time to heal, if you for some reason decided to do it.
Anyway, I do have a dog with a stiff leg. It's like a peg leg. She was that way when I adopted her at 7mos old and we did a lot of PT to see if she could regain movement, but didn't get much improvement. I think it was already pretty set by then. Her problem was not a luxating patella, it stemmed from a spinal condition affecting the nerves in her hindquarters. They talked about amputating her leg, and I chose not to and I'm glad I did. She still uses it in her way. She can scratch the back of her head with that foot if she bends her head. Her leg still moves from the hip, so when she scratches it makes a scratching motion without bending at the knee. I think it must be wonderful for her to be able to have the satisfaction of doing that.
After 13 years of being like this with only one hind leg, and it being stiff, eventually she began to get neck strain from leaning forward to "walk" like she does. But if your dog is a wheelchair dog, I don't think he'll have that problem, his neck will be in a more normal position when he walks in the cart.
My dog with the stiff hind leg does not use a wheelchair. You might want to think if that is going to affect your ability to get your dog in and out of the cart. However, I saved a photo of a dog with a "peg leg" as I call it very similar to my dog's, and the dog is using a cart, so it shows a dog can still use a wheelchair with a stiff leg. This dog has 2 hind legs that don't bend and is using a wheelchair.
viewtopic.php?p=112529#p112529
There is also a genetic condition in some German Shepherds resulting in "straight leg shepherds" where their hind legs don't bend. One of our moderators, Joanne, did a great video of her straight leg shepherds playing in the snow. I think you'll love it!
Don't know if any of this helps. My dog is a female, so I'm not sure how it will affect his toileting.
Wish I could be more help. I'm sorry he's having a knee problem. We do get in some unique situations with our handicapped pets. It has to be disappointing to have this come on top of everything else. I am sorry you couldn't just have one issue to deal with. I think whatever you choose will be for a good reason and it will be the right thing. Whatever you choose, I hope you get even better results than you expected.
((( Big hugs to Fox and his family! )))
Re: Paralyzed dog with knee problems...
Thank you for your reply Carol! It really helped me.
The thing with his leg is that it's always been kinda bad since the surgery. It was hard to move it from the beginning and the vet told us that he probably couldn't use it properly if he would walk again. So that's nothing new... It's just that the knee problems come on top. I couldn't do his exercise for 1-2 days because he had such intense pain every time the kneecap jumped out. And this "little" break already caused the leg to get even stiffer than it was.
And yeah.. I read through so many posts in this forum. There are so many dogs who began to walk again after 2-3 years. So I got that on my mind too. But I think with the initial problems his left leg would always be a problem, the luxation aside. The videos you posted reminded me that dogs are capable to adjust to anything! Fox also just accepted the way things are now and is quite happy, so I think I don't have to worry too much about him.
The physical therapist also told me that the surgery for the knee would be rather short and simple, but still... There are many things discouraging me. I think it might be the easiest to let the leg get stiff. If he might walk again someday then he can still use the wheelchair as a help for outside and maybe he can find a way to walk around inside. His right leg is still perfectly fine. I don't know if I could choose to operate the knee later, when he starts walking again or if it's too late then.
I'm just relieved to see those dogs living a normal life with a "peg leg" as you call it.
I was worried that it might hurt when the leg gets stiff, but it doesn't seem so. Thank you very much!
And for his wheelchair: he wears a harness around his back and then I just need to clip him into the chair. His legs are always stretched out and they just hang down in the wheelchair, so that's no problem.
The thing with his leg is that it's always been kinda bad since the surgery. It was hard to move it from the beginning and the vet told us that he probably couldn't use it properly if he would walk again. So that's nothing new... It's just that the knee problems come on top. I couldn't do his exercise for 1-2 days because he had such intense pain every time the kneecap jumped out. And this "little" break already caused the leg to get even stiffer than it was.
And yeah.. I read through so many posts in this forum. There are so many dogs who began to walk again after 2-3 years. So I got that on my mind too. But I think with the initial problems his left leg would always be a problem, the luxation aside. The videos you posted reminded me that dogs are capable to adjust to anything! Fox also just accepted the way things are now and is quite happy, so I think I don't have to worry too much about him.
The physical therapist also told me that the surgery for the knee would be rather short and simple, but still... There are many things discouraging me. I think it might be the easiest to let the leg get stiff. If he might walk again someday then he can still use the wheelchair as a help for outside and maybe he can find a way to walk around inside. His right leg is still perfectly fine. I don't know if I could choose to operate the knee later, when he starts walking again or if it's too late then.
I'm just relieved to see those dogs living a normal life with a "peg leg" as you call it.
I was worried that it might hurt when the leg gets stiff, but it doesn't seem so. Thank you very much!And for his wheelchair: he wears a harness around his back and then I just need to clip him into the chair. His legs are always stretched out and they just hang down in the wheelchair, so that's no problem.
Re: Paralyzed dog with knee problems...
Replies in blue...
Donybelle wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2023 4:17 am Thank you for your reply Carol! It really helped me.
The thing with his leg is that it's always been kinda bad since the surgery. It was hard to move it from the beginning and the vet told us that he probably couldn't use it properly if he would walk again. So that's nothing new...It's just that the knee problems come on top. I couldn't do his exercise for 1-2 days because he had such intense pain every time the kneecap jumped out. And this "little" break already caused the leg to get even stiffer than it was.
Is it possible he's just holding it stiff on purpose to protect it, like, "Oh, no you don't, you're not bending my sore knee again!" Couldn't blame him if he did, right?
And yeah.. I read through so many posts in this forum. There are so many dogs who began to walk again after 2-3 years. So I got that on my mind too. But I think with the initial problems his left leg would always be a problem, the luxation aside. The videos you posted reminded me that dogs are capable to adjust to anything! Fox also just accepted the way things are now and is quite happy, so I think I don't have to worry too much about him.
That's the main thing, if he's happy. And you'll always know you've done everything you could, so you can both be happy.
The physical therapist also told me that the surgery for the knee would be rather short and simple, but still... There are many things discouraging me. I think it might be the easiest to let the leg get stiff. If he might walk again someday then he can still use the wheelchair as a help for outside and maybe he can find a way to walk around inside. His right leg is still perfectly fine. I don't know if I could choose to operate the knee later, when he starts walking again or if it's too late then.
I don't know either.
I'm just relieved to see those dogs living a normal life with a "peg leg" as you call it.
All I know is, Dolly's stiff leg never seems to bother her at all. Her problem wasn't her kneecap, though. I don't know if every case is the same.
And for his wheelchair: he wears a harness around his back and then I just need to clip him into the chair. His legs are always stretched out and they just hang down in the wheelchair, so that's no problem.
Good deal!
Re: Paralyzed dog with knee problems...
My first thought was spasticity pulling it out; that used to happen with humans with spasticity very frequently. Like you say, there probably isn’t much to lose by waiting and seeing what happens. Many of us with wonkers are basically writing our own books every day, so there may not be anybody who’s been in the same position. You have good reasons to not want surgery, and gains would be iffy. Maybe it’ll help when Mother Nature fuses it, but who knows.