Looking for Medical Treatment Experience for IVDD in Beagles (or other breeds)

[Tobythebeagle727]

Our Dog Toby suddenly started to feel the effects of IVDD last Sunday. We have no idea what he did exactly but I think he might have caught his legs on a pallet since we discovered later their was some food under it (he usually gets supervised off lease activity on our farm but this time we left him on his own for 10 minutes which we are kicking ourselves for). He became all "wobbly" in his legs teetering from side to side. He was still able to walk somewhat but VERY unsteady, could still relieve himself and wag his tail. We took him to the emergency vet and they said it looked like he has IVDD, which our primary vet kind of hinted at when he was in earlier February for some neck pain that went away fairly quick. We started him on Gabpentin, Rimadyl, and trazodone for the time being.

We saw the neurologist to figure out the next steps. We are a little confuse since it's either surgery or medical management and both seem to have a decent outcome. We want to do what is best for him but $11,000 for surgery (including the MRI) is a bit of a sticker shock for us. And putting an animal thru such an intense surgery worries us.

Does anyone have any experience to share with medical management? Did you see improvement? Back to normal gait and activity? How did you go about PT, did it help? Did you have any relapse down the line with IVDD or change to more paralysis condition forgoing the surgery?

He seems to be doing ok, still somewhat wobbly has SO much energy. We can tell he wants to run around but we are keeping him crated/dog bed confined. His tail is wagging, he's going potty on his own. We are having a little trouble getting him to drink water like he used to but he also isn't roaming around like he usually does but we also are worried maybe his neck is hurting a little (even though the water is lifted in a stand) but he does eat fine but he also a beagle so.

Any insight would be very helpful!! We are meeting with the neurologist again on Monday to see what they think of his improvement.

[CarolC]

Hi Tobythebeagle727,

Can you clarify, are they thinking he might have IVDD in his neck, where he had pain in February? I have a dog who had neck surgery and can make further comments from experience, but I want to be sure I understand.

[Tobythebeagle727]

They are not 100% sure but based off of his early neck pain, wobbly legs, and when they pressed on his back between the T-L junction he yelped. So they are pretty sure it's IVDD based off of this and his breed but without the MRI we don't know 100%. But they are suggesting the MRI and surgery because it would be a little silly to get the MRI and not do the surgery. We are a little confused.

[CarolC]

OK, here are 2 articles that may help. The second one is easier to read on mobile devices, hard to read on a desktop. Excuse the long post but I will make some comments below.

https://toegrips.com/ivdd-surgery/
https://dodgerslist.com/2020/02/10/surg ... nservative

The decision regarding conservative (medical) management versus surgery for IVDD has a lot to do with the stage of IVDD. (see Dr. Buzby article). It sounds(?) like your dog is about Stage Two? There is no guarantee of recovery with either surgery or conservative treatment. The way I understand it, you have a better chance of successful recovery using conservative treatment (rest + meds) when the dog is in early stages, which it seems your dog is. You also have a better chance of successful recovery when doing surgery if your dog can still walk when he goes into surgery, but that is not required. But again, neither one is guaranteed.

One option some people try is, they try conservative treatment, and if the dog is improving, they continue the full course of conservative treatment. That would mean 8 weeks of super strict crate rest (no cheating). However I was told by a moderator on Dodger's List that they've seen from experience that conservative dogs who do 10 weeks of strict crate rest (instead of 8) have a lower rate of relapse. If you are trying conservative treatment but your dog is not improving or getting worse, then the decision to do surgery becomes clearer.

I should also add a note about conservative treatment for a neck problem. This is hard to do. You can keep your dog in a crate but you can't prevent him from turning his head and watching all the activity going on around him. I've had 2 cervical dogs and my vet told me the best thing to do is put your dog in a room of his/her own, or at least put him where he won't be turning his head. I ended up putting my dog's crate on the far side of an unused bedroom, where she has to look only one direction to see out the bedroom door to see anything that is going on in the house. It worked well. She has no stimuli to swivel her head, there is only one direction to look that she can see anything. But my vet specifically said, some people do 10 weeks of crate rest for dogs with a neck problem and it still doesn't improve because the neck does not get rested. So that's a word to the wise.

Strict crate rest means in the crate (or x-pen) 24/7, only out to potty. You *carry* the dog to the grass, keep him on a leash and allow only as much walking as is absolutely necessary to complete the job, then carry him back in. If he normally pees in a certain location, I would carry him to there so he does not have to walk from the middle of the yard to his favorite spot along the fence or wherever. You need all family members on board with this, and children should understand about strict crating. Other pets should not be allowed to excite him so he becomes active in his crate. When my golden retriever was on crate rest, he whined a lot the first week and half drove me nuts, but he quieted down eventually and got used to the new normal. Crate rest can take patience for pet parents as well as dogs. Crate rest requires tough love. You may feel sorry for him and think it wouldn't hurt to just let him lie on sofa and watch TV for an hour, or sleep in bed with you like he always does, or let him off leash outside, but if crating isn't strict the disk can't heal and you may end up with him fully paralyzed and needing surgery, so it isn't doing him any favors to go soft on crate rest. You basically have one chance to get it right. Some people worry that if the dog gets no exercise, he'll lose his muscle tone. No worries, muscle tone comes back when the neurological status improves, it isn't permanent.

As far as the price of surgery with the MRI being $11K, that is not surprising. That is about what I paid when my dog had cervical (neck) surgery in 2023. If it's too much to afford all at once, you could consider using Care Credit. I've never heard anything bad about them. They provide loans (with good terms) for emergency veterinary care and you pay it off over time. Your vet hospital may have the application at their reception desk, or you could check online. They get back to you quickly on whether you are approved so you know right away.
www.carecredit.com

I have had one dog who had back surgery in the area you mention (T-L) and one who had cervical surgery. I was really worried about the neck surgery, but it was ***way*** better than I expected. Here is a photo of my dog's scar. As you can see, they did neck surgery on the cervical spine by going in through the throat, and you'd think the dog would be miserable, but he wasn't! You surgeon might use a different approach. My dog who had spinal surgery at T-12 was actually on pain medication for maybe 3 weeks or a little more. She was not restless except for about the last 45 minutes before it was time for the next dose, which made it hard for me to wait those 45 minutes but I did. Most of the time she varied from being happy with her head tilted back from the narcotics, to alert but calm, to sleeping. She seemed to know she needed sleep. So I would say, the surgery itself (if you do it) may turn out to be not-as-bad as you worry it will be.

As far as the meds he is on, I have no experiece with trazadone. Three of my dogs have had prednisone for spinal issues. You might ask the vet if adding it would provide any additional benefit. Rimadyl is anti-inflammatory, which is what prednisone is. If he is overly active, you might consider a sedative. My one dog (different dog) with neck spasms takes diazepam to help her unwind when she's having neck problems. It is part of a 4-drug cocktail she gets. Helps her relax, lie down, and sleep like she needs to.

The only thing I'm unsure about is the possibility that your dog might have both a neck problem and a lumbar-thoracic junction problem? Does this mean theoretically they could do an MRI, find 2 spots where disks need attention, and end up doing surgery on 2 spots? You won't know without the imaging, but that's what it sounds like. He yelped when the T-L area was pressed, but he doesn't want to bend his head to drink even with his bowl elevated. I know beagles get IVDD, and his neck was sore a couple of months ago, but I suppose it's possible some of this might be trauma related (?) since you didn't see what happened when he was outdoors. Maybe he fell, or something fell on him, or he was kicked or something? So maybe it will continue to improve as the inflammation and bruising goes down if you give it time. I have no idea.

Having 2 surgical sites wouldn't be that different from having one as far as post op care, and he's a small enough breed that you should be able to do rehab later whatever surgery he has, if he ends up having it. But anyway, it is common for vets to only do the MRI if you plan to do surgery if the MRI shows it is needed, because they already have him sedated. I hear that all the time, that's normal. I think a lot of it is because they just don't want to do extra anaesthesia on a dog because there's always a degree of risk with anaesthesia.

So I guess I would clarify with the vet, would prednisone help? How likely is it he might need surgery in both neck and back? Right now if he was my dog, I'd probably be more worried about the neck than the back, as neck problems can become excruciatingly painful and you can end up doing emergency surgery if the dog is in too much pain. That is one advantage of deciding to do the MRI and surgery now (if needed), so you can pick your surgeon and it is all done on a planned basis, not an emergency basis at who knows what time of day or what day of the week, with whatever surgeon is on call. But honestly, if it was my dog, I think I'd try a little more conservative treatment and see if both back and neck improve. Really STRICT conservative treatment. If your beagle wears a collar, I would change him to a chest harness just in case there really is a neck problem.

If he improves and "graduates" from crate rest, you may want to think about ways to prevent further problems. If he has IVDD as they suspect, he needs to avoid all jumping in the future (off the porch, tailgate, sofa) and they say no more stairs, so those are things to consider.

Sorry this is long. It's only my I am not a vet. Wishing you the best as you make decisions for your dog. You may want to check out Dodger's List for more information or opinions.

[critters]

Trazodone is an antidepressant, and I expect there's some sedation, anxiety reduction, etc. with it, which is probably intended.

[CarolC]

It was posted here before but I forgot about it!