No improvement

Neurological Disorders Resources. Treatment and care for pets having pain or trouble walking or standing due to spinal injuries or neurological disorders like IVDD, FCE and DM.
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CarolC
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Re: No improvement

Post by CarolC »

Cindidoxiemom wrote:No...you don't want to strengthen it....it is already strong that is why you are having trouble expressing.

The sphnicter is not being really controlled by Taffy,...it is involuntary...that is why it is resisting so much.

Please remember,...just because they "pee" dosen't mean they are controling it.

Phenylpropanolamine (PPA) is a drug of the phenethylamine family used as a decongestant and also as an appetite suppressant.

I don't quite understand why Taffy was on this drug.

Again...I suggest phenoxybenzamine. It takes a week or so to really get in their system and work well.

Cindi
Hi Brian,

I agree with Cindi. If it was my dog, I would be trying something to relax the sphincter a bit. Phenoxybenzamine is one choice. I have also heard of Inderol. I also totally agree about getting him off the propanolamine.
brian.f
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Re: No improvement

Post by brian.f »

Hi Paul,
Can I take up a point from your message. You say a cart may well help Taffy's back to heal. I have a eddieswheels cart for Taffy but he has not taken to it, preferring a rear lifting harness. This allows him to go to places he could not go in a cart (long grass, rough ground etc). Also we "spot" walk as opposed to route walk, so we go to one place and we then come back home. The latter has severely restricted his range, and I am afraid to push him further in case he does damage to his back. Do you have any evidence to suggest a cart is preferable to a rear harness from a therapeutic point of view. I would be prepared to change his habits and put him in the cart if I thought it would be advantageous. He is 11 years old, but I hear of dogs of his age going much further in carts. Brian
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Paul Coover
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Re: No improvement

Post by Paul Coover »

Well, every dog is different, so perhaps in your case a cart would not work. There are cases in which a dog does not take to the cart. I have never heard of a cart doing harm or damage, but I guess it is possible.

My dachshunds can go through all terain in their carts, including snow, sand, mud, tall grass, even up stairs.

My gang all took to their carts right away, and I do believe that the cart helped Riley to walk again. But if the sling works for you, then you should stick with it. Good luck!
Weinerdogs Rule!
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Hello from Kebo, Riley, Willy, Johanna, Pork Chop, Auggie, Buddy, Sadie & Spartacus.

We miss you Pedro...
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Dianne
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Re: No improvement

Post by Dianne »

Julie,

I know that you think you have good results with colloidal silver but it is NOT a standard drug for treatment of animals or humans. Brian f should be aware that most of us rely on standard antibiotics for treatment of UTI's in our pets and do NOT use colloidal silver.

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration takes the following stand:

February 12, 1997

COLLOIDAL SILVER NOT APPROVED

FDA has received reports that products containing colloidal silver are being promoted for use in the treatment of mastitis and other serious disease conditions of dairy cattle, as well as for various conditions of companion animals. For example, FDA's Center for Veterinary Medicine has received reports from the Agency's regional milk specialists and State inspectors that colloidal silver products have been found on some dairy farms. Also, recent articles in some farm newspapers and journals promote the use of colloidal silver in treating mastitis and claim that no milk discard is needed.

FDA is not aware of any substantial scientific evidence that supports the safe and effective use of colloidal silver ingredients or silver salts for any animal disease condition. Also, in the October 15, 1996 Federal Register, FDA proposed to establish that all over-the-counter human drug products containing colloidal silver ingredients or silver salts for internal or external use are *not generally recognized as safe and effective* and are misbranded.

Use of colloidal silver ingredients in food-producing animals constitutes a potentially serious public health concern because of the possibility of residues in milk or meat. According to several scientific publications mentioned in the October 15, 1996 Federal Register proposal, the human consumption of silver may result in argyria -- a permanent ashen-gray or blue discoloration of the skin, conjunctiva, and internal organs.

In addition to the possible human health concerns, use of these products to treat a serious illness in animals (including pets) could potentially endanger the health of the animal by delaying timely, appropriate treatment.

Colloidal silver-containing products have not been approved by FDA for use in any animal species. Promoting the use of colloidal silver for treating animal diseases causes such products to be misbranded veterinary drugs under the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (the Act). Labeling colloidal silver products to treat animals causes such products to be new animal drugs which are adulterated under the Act.

FDA has taken action against colloidal silver products, and is continuing to investigate the promotion and use of colloidal silver products in dairy and other animals. If necessary, FDA will take further appropriate regulatory action.


Issued by:
FDA, Center for Veterinary Medicine,
Office of Management and Communications, HFV-12
7519 Standish Place, Rockville, MD 20855
Telephone: (301) 827-3800 FAX: (301) 827-4065
Internet Web Site: http://www.fda.gov/cvm

http://www.fda.gov/cvm/CVM_Updates/silver.html
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Wise Owl
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Re: No improvement

Post by Wise Owl »

Not a problem Diane, if you want to use the Pharmacuetical drugs approved by the FDA. That is "your" choice. I personally do not choose to rely on "their" approved drugs. Too many drugs have been "approved" for use that turn around in a year or two to be dangerous to both animals and humans.

Colloidal silver has been used for a long long time with great results by many people. It cost's less and you actually can make it yourself. That would cost the drug manufacturers money by people using that instead of their costly items. So it is up to you what you want to do. I only state that there are other choices, such as homeopathic drugs which have a much better chance of working. They treat the cause, not just treat symptoms as drugs do.

We use vitamins suppliments, healthy food, don't eat out, and are rarely sick, we don't even get colds or the flu.
We feel that antibiotics and other drugs are not always the best way to treat problems. Our pets eat whole foods, not commercial brands. Mainly raw foods. They do not get sick either. They usually do not need the vet only when something like this injury to Luka happened and we are now using alternative remedies such as chiropractic and massage instead of surgery and drugs from the pharm companies such as steriods. If it takes a little longer for Luka to heal so be it. I will not give her steriods. And I have my reasons for that after personal experience with them.

That is my choice. I will leave it there.
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CarolC
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Re: No improvement

Post by CarolC »

Dianne,

I just saw this from the National Center for Alternative and Complementary Medicine:

Other side effects from using colloidal silver products may include neurologic problems (such as seizures), kidney damage, stomach distress, headaches, fatigue, and skin irritation.

http://nccam.nih.gov/health/alerts/silver/

It seems counterproductive to treat a dog with neurological deficits with something that can cause neurologic problems. Seems counterproductive to prevent a bladder infection with something that causes kidney problems.

When I want to try to prevent a urinary infection, I give my dog part of a Cranactin tablet every day. I get it at the health food store. She loves her "purple pills" (they taste good) and the cranberry in it is good for the bladder. Every once in a while, I just give it to her every day for 6 days (works out like that because of the way I cut the tablets). I learned about it from Anita, who used natural products for her dog to prevent UTIs. However, there is a warning about not giving too mich cranactin either, or you can cause stones. CranActin is from Solaray and I get the chewables because they are yummy and I can cut them up.

http://www.handicappedpets.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Urinary_tract_infection

Image

[EDIT 5/3/11 CranActin chewables now contain xylitol, which is not safe for dogs.]
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Jane Scott
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Expressing - Fooling yah, I'm not empty!!!

Post by Jane Scott »

Hi; Harley was on meds to relax the sphinxter (sp?) and it worked well - here in Canada we used Bethanechol 5mg, given a half hour prior to next bladder expression every 8 hours. Worked great; but sometimes our (the humans) timing was off and we would miss the window of when it was the most relaxed. I find with Harley that he likes to hold some back for the next tree / fire hydrant / whatever. So after I was able to get a good stream going, I would wait for a bit, move him out of the pee area (back deck) and then by patting quite vigorously on each side he would then be able to release again. I believe that he actually had some feeling of where/what his bladder was doing. The patting kind of was a diversion and he was ready to go again. Now that Harley has regained his bladder & bowel control I tried to express him once (we were in a hurry) and he just looked at me like I'm nuts and didn't go at all - bladder was full and hard as a rock but he wasn't releasing anything until he was good and ready! Hope this gives you some sense of how diverse each of our animals are and what works for one may work for another. Jane
Harley the "Monkey-boy"
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Wise Owl
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Re: Expressing - Fooling yah, I'm not empty!!!

Post by Wise Owl »

Super Silver solution, patented and trademarked and tested for both effectiveness and saftey....You can research the company that makes it. There are doctors all over the world using this product intraveinously in their patients to treat things like ebola and such with success. Just another reason that I do not trust the FDA. They approved aspartame which is shown to cause cancer. They also approved flouridated water which is also a carcenogenic.....
Just because the FDA says something is safe or not safe does not make that true. Most officials of the FDA are former employees of the major Pharmaceutical companies and as such will tend to favor helping those companies out.....just do as much research about those issues as you do the side effects of the other meds you give your pets. Please do not rely on what the FDA tells you as the whole and honest truth.

http://www.nutrimedical.com/products.jh ... ct.id=2526

Now I will leave it be.
brian.f
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Re: No improvement

Post by brian.f »

"Sorry - but you can't have phenoxybenzamine, and you can't have Inderol either". Both these drugs are strictly "off label" in the UK. "In fact you can't have anything". Apparently there are no drugs used by UK vetinaries to weaken the sphincter, only Propalin which strengthens it to avoid incontinence, and that has only been intended for splayed bitches. The vet does not believe that Taffy has lost bladder control. He thinks he would empty his bladder given sufficient time, and what I am seeing is the few drips that remain. Meanwhile, after a couple of hours I am still mopping up the kitchen floor.
Brian
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CarolC
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Re: No improvement

Post by CarolC »

brian.f wrote:Meanwhile, after a couple of hours I am still mopping up the kitchen floor.
OK, I'm thinking life would be much easier for you if you put that dog in a male wrap. Then if he wants to wet in the house he will wet the pad and you can put a new pad in and not have to spend all of your spare time mopping the floor. This one here is available in the UK.

Image

http://www.k9carts.co.uk/wrap.html

Brian, there are probably other companies in the UK that sell male wraps as well, this is the only one I am familiar with. Maybe you can do a web search and find other brands? If you don't have time, let me know and maybe I can find some more for you.

Really really hope this helps!
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FYI
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Re: No improvement

Post by FYI »

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CarolC
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Re: No improvement

Post by CarolC »

Hi Julie,

I think your approach with vitamins and supplements and etc. is great. I agree there are meds I wouldn't want to give my pets and the FDA certainly doesn't catch all the problems before they are on the market. I'm just trying to offer some alternatives. The reason I like the CranActin is I know it works. My dog is small and when I express her bladder I can really feel it. When her bladder starts to get thick and rubbery, I can tell. When I start her on 6 days of CranActin, we have a bladder that's not rubbery by the second day--oh joy!

There is another alternative I was going to mention, but you might already know about it. That is, you can get amoxicillin without going to a vet, if going to a vet isn't an option. I haven't actually done it, but 2 people I trust who I consider responsible people have done it. They used fish mox, which is amoxicillin that is sold without a prescription for aquarium fish. It's still amoxicillin. Here is an example of where you can get it online. I thought this might help if you are a long drive away from the vet.

http://shop.valuevetinc.com/index.php?a ... =pricelist

Dosing guidelines are here:

http://www.terrierman.com/antibiotics.htm


You can see the amoxi is under $20. The CranActin which I use to prevent infection is about $7 a bottle (and did I mention yummy?). :) Hugs to Luka!

[EDIT 5/3/11 CranActin chewables now contain xylitol, which is not safe for dogs.]
brian.f
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Re: No improvement

Post by brian.f »

Hi
Spoke to the vet about this urination problem. Had Taffy in for a sample to be taken. Sure enough, a very persistent UTI. This UTI has resisted two programmes of Synolux - it just bounces back because the vet says it is probably seated in the prostrate. I think the original and wrong diagnosis of Hepatitis, reached by his colleague who didn't know the dog, allowed too much delay and allowed this infection to get established. Taffy has had a sample sent off for analysis to establish what we are up against. Meanwhile he is on Marbocyl and is already showing signs of improvement. Brian
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Wise Owl
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Re: No improvement

Post by Wise Owl »

Brian, it sounds like Taffy is starting to respond to the new meds. Keep us posted ok?

Connie, yes I know about amoxie for fish. Like I said we do not use meds usually altho I do have a bottle of pennicillian in the fridge that you can get at your local feed store....heh. Agway sells it as do most feed stores for farm animals. It has to be kept in the fridge and is given intramuscular.....but it is only for emergencies if we can't get out due to winter weather or something similar.....Cost is under $10......

That is about the only meds we keep around here other than suppliments and of course the colloidal silver which I made up another batch today. Hubby has a little scratchy throat. A few times gargling will cure that.

Enough thread drift on Taffy's thread.....

Brian, please let us know how Taffy is getting along. Please?
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CarolC
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Re: No improvement

Post by CarolC »

brian.f wrote:Hi
Spoke to the vet about this urination problem. Had Taffy in for a sample to be taken. Sure enough, a very persistent UTI. This UTI has resisted two programmes of Synolux - it just bounces back because the vet says it is probably seated in the prostrate. I think the original and wrong diagnosis of Hepatitis, reached by his colleague who didn't know the dog, allowed too much delay and allowed this infection to get established. Taffy has had a sample sent off for analysis to establish what we are up against. Meanwhile he is on Marbocyl and is already showing signs of improvement. Brian
Well, thank goodness they found the problem! A culture will let them identify exactly what the "bug" is that's causing the infection and choose the antibiotic that is most effective for it. I wish I had something helpful to say about the problems you've had with vet care--the adverse reaction to the aquapuncture and the misdiagnosis of the UTI. I know how I'd feel. It would make it really hard to trust anybody with my dog! Glad to hear this vet is more on top of things! It sounds good. :)
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