Madison paralyzed help!!

[Brian End]

Maddie our five year old german shephard female became completely paralized in her hind quarters in less than 24 hours for no apparent reason this happened on monday Nov. 27 the vet diagnosed fce or a slipped disk. Maddie is not overweight and while she was diagnosed with spondilosis? on tuesday has never had an injury to her spine. She comes from a reputable breeder and is hip certified there is no spinal problems in her family lines sire or dam. She is 75 pounds and is a very active dog she was not in any kind of accident car or otherwise to bring on any spinal trauma. Except for my inlaws' husky trying and according to the vet successfully mounting her, said husky is about 60 pounds. My inlaws were visiting for 4 days over thanksgiving and left sunday afternoon. We noticed something wrong sunday evening maddie was in slight pain in her hind quarters but was fine otherwise. X-rays show nothing of course and we could not afford the mri or myopathy. She has no deep tissue pain or anal tone. We are extremely concerned about cleanliness as we have a 7 month old baby so we were wondering how well the sleepee pet bed actually works and were curious about any other tips anyone might have about caring for a large dog that has to manually expressed every 4 hours. Also we are curious about carts which is best for her condition; saddle, slings or otherwise any help to get our poor maddie on the road to recovery fast would be gratly appreciated thank you.

[connie]

hello and welcome,
first of all, i am not a vet , my advice comes from having a dog that went down in hind legs. i have a small yorkie mix, he went paralyzed in hind legs last november. his was a ruptured disk.
now some of us never had surgery, but i and some did. x rays won't discover a disk problem, you'll need the other tests to know for sure. they are costly, but my vet and the one who operated let me pay it out monthly. cricket went in with 30% chance of recovery, no deep pain. he didn't show signs of deep pain coming back till after 10 months post op. he spinal walked, gets around great, he doesn't think he is different, he does everything but pee on his own and jump. if your baby can't pee on it's won you';ll need to learn how to express bladder. sometimes they dribble, but bladder MUST be empty or your facing URI's, NASTY INFECTIONS. it is not hard to do, vet or we can teach you. NOW IMPORTANT THING, A MUST!! CRATE REST completely. no moving around at all, if not in a crate, confined somehow in small area. any moving around a lot and dragging can do more damage. vet told me if we had known cricket's disk was bad and i had crated him, it would have healed on it's own. cricket had to stay in a crate for 6 weeks after surgery. i only took him out to potty and do range of motion on his legs to keep them limber. no P.T. , no excersies till healed. i cannot express how important crate rest is. a lot of pets here healed up just by crate rest for 6 to 8 weeks. no surgery at all.
if madison is in pain , you will need vet to give you some meds. the smart pals of mine on this site will post everything you will need to know. they sure helped me when i first came here. we are here for you, just ask anything.
but until you know what is wrong, please crate rest.
keep us update please, you both are in my prayers.
a handicap pet can live a long healthy , very happy life even if they don't regain full hind leg function. my boy is a joy, doesn't know what disable is, he runs, plays, is normal to me and him. lol. let me know if i can help anymore.
it is hard at first . but we are here.!
a hug for you both,
connie and cricket

[Cindidoxiemom]

Brian~
Welcome to our forum. I hope you will find comfort and help here.

Ok...number one...you have three different diagnosis? IVDD, FCE and Spondylosis. Was the vet you took Madison to a neurologist? All three of these diseases have treatments...did the vet discuss these with you?

Remember, these are diseases, and while certain activites can magnify the symptoms, they do not CAUSE the disease.

Myelograms, MRIs and CTs are excellent diagnostic tools, but yes, they can be cost prohibitive.

I wouldn't give up on Madison walking again just yet. You might try what has worked wonders for many here.

1. STRICT CRATE REST. This means Madison would need to be crated, or placed in a small confined area where she can not move around for 6-8 weeks. The only time she should be moved or allowed to move would be when she is expressed.

2. Since you are still very early in the injury, you might discuss the benifits and drawbacks of prednisone with your vet. Many, including my IVDD pups have had success with prednisone treatment.

3. Expressing. Did your vet teach you the proper way to express Madison? Are you able to do it? There are several here with larger dogs that are or have been paralyzed who have successfully cared for their bladder/bowel needs. We also have poop on demand techniques that can help. If you keep Madison properly "cleaned out" you will deal with fewer accidents.

Many times, strict...and I do mean strict crate rest, steroids and proper care can help a dog recover.

IF you have the means...I STRONGLY suggest you at least take Madison to a neurologist to see if you can get a firm diagnosis.

Again...welcome to you....Madison, and your whole family. We are here for you.
Cindi

[Brian End]

Thankyou for your support! We have learned how to exress her bladder as for her bowels she has no anal tone so we either wait for the poop to fall out, press on either side of her rectum, or help out by kind of gently pulling it out. She is on prednisone right now. She actually goes from the 12 to the 24 hour cycle starting tonight. No our vet isn't a neurologist and didn't mention crate rest he actually lent us a homade cart to excercise her. Aside from surgery our only options were doing what we're doing now or euthanizing her. He didn't mention any other treatments. He taught us to do traction and range of motion for her. He did diagnose her with spondilosis and said the cause of the paralysis was either ivdd or fce he wasn't sure without the mri/ct/myleopathy. If she needs to be on strict crate rest how do we keep the rest of her muscles strong? Will my lifting of her to express, change diapers, and clean her hurt her worse? She is getting somewhat chapped around her girl parts we are using diaper rash ointment to help there. What have you found best for cleaning your dogs and keeping the odor down? Do you know anything about the SleePee time pet beds to keep them comfy and dry? How often Should we express her? we have been doing 3-5 hours. She is also on zantac and sucralfate for ulcers and just this evening she has decided she no longer wishes to eat she is still drinking though. The vet is an animal Chiroprator horses mostly but he said he would like to see us keep maddies back muscles stretched and loose for circulation reasons in case she regains feeling the muscles are still there to respond is this o.k.? Maddie doesn't really try to drag herself the only thing she really does is roll from her side to her belly so that she is in an upright position to eat or drink. I don't understand the time thing on this forum we're in Oregon and it's still Dec. 1 here but your replies are dated Dec. 2. Monday I think we will see about payments to the neurologists we have found (3) the closest one is 180 miles away will it hurt her to travel? Any help you can give is greatly appreciated and we thank you. Once again thankyou for all the help you have already given I have learned a lot already!

[Anonymous]

Maddie our five year old german shephard female became completely paralized in her hind quarters in less than 24 hours for no apparent reason **snip** my inlaws' husky trying and according to the vet successfully mounting her, said husky is about 60 pounds. **snip** We noticed something wrong sunday evening maddie was in slight pain in her hind quarters but was fine otherwise.

I agree with Cindi about the crate rest. It does not sound like FCE. I wouldn't expect an FCE to come on gradually during a 24-hr period and then cause paralysis. I would expect it to be more sudden than that...clot, down.

EDIT TO CORRECT : THIS IS WRONG, PARALYSIS FROM FCE CAN DEVELOP OVER A 24-HR PERIOD AS OTHERS POINT OUT BELOW.

They say you only need to express every 8 hrs. I do it 4 times a day. If you are new at expressing, doing it more often than every 8 hrs may be helpful. It sounds like you are doing really well with bowel and bladder care. Some people use bag balm for chapping. Be careful about diaper cream with zinc oxide, it is not healthy for pets if they lick it.

It was nice of your vet to lend you a cart, but it is a little premature. The cart company I dealt with did not recommend putting a dog in a cart until 6 weeks post injury. This is to allow the injury a chance to heal. Strict crate rest really means no cart. Also, you would be manipulating her a lot to get her into the cart, which wouldn't be good. And you would have to adjust the cart to get the right fit. It will have to wait. Yes, she will lose some muscle tone, but it comes back. My dog could not walk for 9 months but the muscle tone came back. Please...Cindi is right about the crate rest for a disk problem. It is so hard when your vet tells you one thing and you hear something else from us here.

On the question about hurting her back through expressing and cleaning and so on, you have no choice about the expressing so I guess all you can do is try to be kind of careful. Here is a link describing different methods of expressing. If you click Heavy Dog there is a section telling how Tiffany held her German Shepherd up while expressing.

http://www.handicappedpets.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Express_a_dog_or_cat

If we are lucky, Tiffany will come by and tell you about Eros, her German Shepherd who was paralyzed and had multiple injuries. He is doing great now!

I am sorry, I don't know the answer on the Spee-Pee Time bed. Glad you are here!

[critters]

Change the time in your profile-- GMT-whatever you need.

[karkorny]

Brian, just a note about FCE. Actually, paralysis does develop in about a 24-hour period from an FCE (fibrocartiligenous emoblus to the spine). My dog showed small symptoms at night that looked like pain in the front right leg, and within 24 hours was TOTALLY paralyzed. Then there's NO PAIN. So I agree with everyone, if possible, try to get a diagnosis. The approaches for recovery are very different. FCE can really only be diagnosed by excluding other things, which require a CT scan or MRI to rule out spinal injury. Yes, your dog will have muscle loss - actually either way. If her situation requires crate rest, she'll lose muscle; if she's paralyzed from an FCE, she'll lose muscle. It's not the worst thing. Bully was completely down for about a month and a half, before he was able to start moving a little on his own, and he dropped from about 105-110 pounds to 80. His FCE was August 1st and it's December now, four months (feels like four years!) and he's walking on his own now. It's really important to find out what you're dealing with. I'm not a rich woman, trust me. Like many, live from paycheck to paycheck. But I personally went into a line-of-credit debt of $10,000 for Bully. Don't freak out, it doesn't mean you have to do that. He had complications of a perforated ulcer, and then colitis, all during his paralysis. I also took him for several weeks of physical rehab, where he stayed at the clinic around the clock. If it's feasible, find out what you're dealing with. Don't despair, it can only get better. I really thought I wan't up to the challenge at the time Bully was down, but I have to say I surprised myself - and he surprised me. As long as I was willing to work with him, he did everything in his power to help. It's so worth it now when I see him hobbling in the yard on his own steam. Keep us posted. Karen

[Cindidoxiemom]

Brian,
IVDD and FCE (spinal stroke) are two totally different things that require totally different treatment. This is why several of us have said you really might want to seek further diagnosis.

Talk to a neurologist.

If this is FCE, you should start to see improvement in the dog within 10 days....not always...usually,

If this is IVDD, you may be in this for a much longer haul.
http://www.artreality.com/portfolio/wdw ... isease.htm
Look at the diagrams on this page, and you will see why movement at this point could result in further injury.

I'm sorry I don't know anything about the sleepee bed.

I'm going to stick with my first suggestions...CRATE REST, prednisone, good bladder care and seeing a good Neurologist.
Cindi

[ssg]

That's exactly what happened with my 8 year german shepherd, Klaus two months ago. He went completely paralyzed within a 24 hour period and the vets told me to euthanize him. We had them do an x-ray which showed spondylosis, but decided not to proceed any with further tests. We crated him, and four weeks later he can walk!!! He's a little wobbly, but he can walk, just the same.

Please hang in there, and read and learn as much as you can from this board. I'll be saying a little prayer for your Madison.

P. S., Aren't german shepherds the best???

Sandy

[Brian End]

Hi, this is Nickole, Brian's wife and Maddie's mommy! I'm taking over the chat session tonight! First, I would like to express my gratitude for all of your responses. It is comforting to know that there are people out there that have went through a similar struggle. It is also nice that we have a place to go to get advice.

If I repeat something Brian mentioned, sorry. Most likely if I do we are still worried or unclear about the particular situation and need more help or I'm just plain forgetful :0) !!!

Okay, so...everyone stresses and recommends crate rest. We have Maddie in a corner on a bed (one mattress cover with vinyl sheet over the top and then a comfy blanket on top of those. We top that off with a pet training pad right under her hind end where she leaks). She is wearing the generic of Depends. We try to express her about every 4 hours and change her, this seems to be when the diaper gets beyond full and urine begins to get on doggy pee pad. Maybe we aren't getting it all out when we express her? Should she go longer with out so much leakage? Seems a lot comes out when we express her. We don't really have to push or probe much for her to go. We would never make it outside. We just let her go over the pad and then discard it in a near by bag. Almost immediately after standing her up, the urine comes. Also, do you think the bed we have made her is sufficient for crate rest? We don't know how we would deal with pulling her in and out of a crate and keep her and the crate clean (she is almost 80 lbs.).

We are waiting to hear from an aquaintance from the vet office on Monday. She says her in-law's dog seemed to experience a situation very much like Maddies'. I guess they took their dog to a man who is a chiro for humans but insisted he could help their dog. The aquaintance said the procedure he used was weird, incense, rocks and pushing on certain parts of the body. However, she says that what he did for in-law's dog worked! After the procedure the dog was almost back to perfect, only has a slight limp. Has anyone heard of such a practice and if so, did it work? We are thinking of taking Maddie to this man but I don't know if the stress of the trip (4 hrs.) would be worth it.

I know you all still highly recommend taking her to see a specialist. We are considering it very much. With a new baby and the Christmas season, we just don't know how to afford it. We have already spent close to $600 on Maddie since her "infliction" first occured. We were thinking of giving it a couple of weeks before making the final decision.

Also, Maddie's urine seems to stink horribly! Does anyone know if this is a side effect of the meds. she is on (Prednisone, Sucralfate, Zantac, and a daily multi-vitamin? I wonder if there is something natural or whatever to give her and help with the odor. I know for humans certain foods can cause urine to have a strong odor and so think maybe there is something that would neutralize it.

Thank you again for your support! Have a great weekend and hope to hear from you soon!

[Dianne]

Good Morning,

Also, Maddie's urine seems to stink horribly!

Since you are expressing urine, my first guess is to suspect a UTI (bladder infection). Incomplete expressing could be part of the problem. Has Maddie been checked for a bladder infection?

Sorry this note is so short, but the dogs got me up at 4 AM, I went back to "sleep in" until 6 AM, and am now behind schedule. We're all real people with real problems.

Dianne
~I am not a vet, but the owner of a paralyzed dog.~

[Cindidoxiemom]

Hi and welcome to you also~

The smelling urine sounds like a bladder infection. In my opinion you need to go ahead and take Maddie in for a urine culture. UTI's can be treated and cleared up, but you don't want to wait and let the infection spread to her kidneys.

The UTI maybe why she is leaking so much. Again...in my opinion this needs immediate attention. This also suggest that you are not getting her bladder completely empty....while you are at the vet getting the culture, have them show you again how to express....it is a bit tricky at first, but you will get the hang of it.

I express Oscar on a wee pad...no problem with doing that!

I have never heard of rocks and incense helping any kind of spinal problem.
Again...this is only my opinion, but I would use that money to get an MRI or CT so that you have a good diagnosis.

[Brian End]

Thank you. We are going to take Maddie in to the vet first thing in the morning to have her checked out for an UTI or bladder infection. How is your dog doing? I hope you can get some rest!

[FYI]

after the first 24 hours, the maximum function loss has occurred.

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/fibroca ... olism.html

Sudden onset. The dog typically cries in pain. The pain subsides in minutes to, at most, hours. Signs of paresis or paralysis develop over a matter of seconds, minutes, or hours.

http://consumer.vetmedcenter.com/Consum ... 960597.htm

Clinical signs are therefore very sudden in onset and often cause immediate paralysis of one limb, of the rear limbs or sometimes of all four limbs.

http://www.accg.com/page180.htm

Most cases are acute or sudden.

http://cvm.msu.edu/vth/spe/arc/fce.htm

[Tiffany]

Hello
I have been off the board for a while and I do not have ANY experience with FCE or slipped disk but I do know about taking care of a paralyzed GSD and a 7 month old baby. First I don't know if theres any rest time or whatever for FCE I know there is a kind of spinal injury that requires at least 6-8 weeks of strict crate rest I'm sure that someone else will be around to help you with all of that, Second, Are you expressing her? Its a really intimidating thing to learn but trust me once you learn it its a snap and it helps ALOT with the cleanliness issue not to mention its absolutely NECESSARY for your dogs health if she cannot empty her bladder herself to do it for her, you dont want to have to deal with an infection. Your going to want to have alot of old towels around and hopefully you have a washer and dryer to help keep things clean I actually used old blankets for Eros, (my five year old GSD, he was hit by a pick up last year and fractured his back He was paralysed altogether for about eight weeks four of them were at home). This way if she does have accidents you can change her bed easily, I gave Eros sponge baths when it was not possible to give him a real bath and he was fine (He couldn't have an actual in the tub bath for a looooong time because of an external fixitaor on his leg) Hence all the towels, I usually did this after the kids were in bed so I didn't worry too much about getting the floor wet, I just cleaned it up after and I used LOTS of towels.I usually used a different blanket for him to sleep on every night altogether I a had three that I used regegularly and a couple others for the days he didn't have accidents and I got lazy about the laundry =-) I made it prt of his nightly routine I would express him after the kids went to bed for the last time of the night give him a spounge bath do his PT (stretching and range of motion) put down a clean bed for him and then relax for the night I know it sounds like alot of work but trust me you guys CAN do this Its REALLY hard at first but then it just becomes part of your routine.(kind of like when you have a new baby) One thing you want to make sure of is you keep ALL her joints moving freely so you dont have to deal with atrophy and when she can use her legs again she'll be able to move them. The way to do this is by moving all he joints through there entire range of motion dont forget her toes and anckles {spelling?)!! There are lots of excersises to help maintain her strength also someone will post a link for you I'm sure. and remember you CAN do this!!! feel free to post any questions you have and We'll be thinking of you guys!!!
Tiffany and Eros

Sorry this is so long winded I tried to cover a little bit of everything!
You can see an old version of Eros' story in the gallery under health and healing He has since recovered (Almost) completely I just haven't updated it. It is the last story in the category.

Should have read further down looks like everyones got it covered, HI CarolC=-)