Not sure what happened to my little man.

[aprmar]

Hi all,

I'm new and please accept my apology if I posted this in the wrong area. Here's my story......

I have an 18 year old poodle/terrier mix. Monday, he was up walking around until I think about two p.m. and then when I looked at him again, he as defecated where he was laying, I picked him up because he's been having problems trying to get up. Well, when I stood him up this time he fell right over. Now, I'm sure he has more going on than just his legs as he is 18 and he appears to be anemic as well. He also has a bad heart that he takes pills for and he has taken strokes in the past, the last one being almost a year ago. He's had a bad back for around six years when his much bigger "brother" and he was playing well he stopped and his bigger brother didn't and run him down. His strokes have affected his legs when he has them. The vet told me then that if he had another one that he may not be able to stand up. I'm not sure if he had a stroke this time as I was working. It just seems funny that he was walking one minute and then then next he couldn't even sit up. If I help him stand, he seems to want to stand. Now, I know I probably should just put him down but neither one of us want to give up on him since he is still eating, drinking and going to the bathroom.

Not to jump around, but Monday evening and all day Tuesday up until around eight p.m. he was deathly weak, when I say that I mean he was on deaths door. He couldn't even sit up and he didn't move at all and he wouldn't eat or drink. I finally had to use a dropper and get some ensure and water into him so he would have some nutrients in him. Well, hubby and I had come to the conclusion that we were going to put him down on Wednesday when he got home from work and that didn't happen because he got home too late but at around eight p.m. he finally drank some water for me and ate some stuffed shells, oh yeah he is on people food as he can't eat dry dog food and won't touch canned food. We saw about a 40 percent improvement in him and my friend and my mother said not to put him down just yet if he's eating, drinking, going to the bathroom and doesn't appear to be in pain. So, we thought that we would give him a little longer to see if he comes out of it. Today his back legs seem to be a little stronger but just not all there so, I thought about looking into a wheelchair but I didn't want to buy one, not at his age so I thought that I would try doing a search to see if anyone had made any homemade wheelchairs for their pets and that's when I found this site. I figured that maybe if he could move the legs a little he could get them moving again enough to walk on his own.

Please don't scold me as I came here for some advice, I am just heartbroken that I'm going to have to put him down soon. I just think that I need to do whatever I can to help him before I just give up on him. So, I guess my question is, when I make him his wheelchair, how long do I keep him in it during the day? He sleeps almost 80 to 90 percent of his day. Do I just put him in it a few times a day and get him to walk in it? Well, thanks for any advice. Have a great day!

APRIL

[GabrielDeafBlindPupFamily]

Wow, your little guy is winding down... I am so sorry he is having so many difficulties all at once. Do you want to take him one more time to doc to make sure you are doing everything possible to keep him comfortable and is there any Rx that may assist in his stability? Others will have some more ideas, I know, and I will simply say that if he is not in pain, emotional or physical, then just love him love him love him for the 18 years of love he has given you. I know when you spend decades with another life, whether 2 or 4 legged, that they become much more than just a 'part' of your life. They are your left leg or right arm.
WELCOME

[Dianne]

Hello April,

Welcome. I'm sorry about the delay in your ability to register-my fault.

Also, sorry to hear that your "little man" is having some difficulties.

Now, I know I probably should just put him down but neither one of us want to give up on him since he is still eating, drinking and going to the bathroom.

No one here is going to tell you to put him down (PTS). We want to support the choices you make and give you examples from our own experience of good treatment. You can cry here when needed, but we hope that the outcome with your pup is good. The people here are REAL pet lovers.

Have you had him evaluated by your vet? You mentioned that he had previous strokes. It is possible that this could also be a spinal stroke or disk disease (IVDD). None of us are vets and cannot make that judgment, but your vet might be of some help here.

I'll let someone else discuss wheelchair use with him. I realize that at 18, with heart issues, he is not a candidate for surgery. Most dogs with a FCE (spinal stroke) will recover with time and patience and may not need a wheelchair.

Someone else will come along soon and have more helpful advice and support.

Sorry that you have been having a few really bad days.

Dianne

[CarolC]

Hi April,

I am glad he is doing a little better. With a stroke he certainly could be walking around and then suddenly go down. He could have thrown a clot following all the exercise of walking, especially when he has a heart problem. What kind of heart problem does he have? Would you mind listing the medications he is on? As Dianne says, recovery is the norm with stroke. Physical therapy is a big help, you can do gentle physical therapy at home. You can massage his legs and feet, tickle his toes, dig your fingers in between his pads and see if he'll kick, bicycle his legs through the complete range of motion. If he is up to it, you can also do resistance by pushing up on the pads of his feet and letting him push back.

It does not really sound like a back problem, but I could be wrong. You say he would not even sit up, right? If it seemed to be affecting the front feet, then it could be a neck problem, but I would expect him to have some neck pain.

When you said he seems anemic, it made me think of kidney function right away. Your description of when he went down also sounds a bit like a seizure, and seizures can occur with kidney problems. I think if it was my dog I would want to have his kidneys checked. I am not a vet and can't begin to guess what is going on, but blood tests are not too stressful, so I think letting them do a senior panel on him might be a good idea.

On the cart question, a healthy dog with strong front legs might stay in a 2-wheel cart for up to 2 hours. With your dog, it will probably be as you say, for only a short while several times a day. A 4-wheel cart might be best for him, you can decide. Even if he is not strong enough to walk around very much in his cart, just having his limbs in a standing-upright position for a little while every day will be good for his circulation and help prevent pressure sores from lying down a lot. It also allows independent pottying.

There are good ways to deal with incontinence if that becomes an issue, just ask. Many of us here have incontinent pets.

Hope you will continue to update and let us know how he is doing. Pictures would be nice, too.

[aprmar]

Hi Dianne and Karen and CarolC,

Thanks for your posts......Just by reading all of your posts, I know I have found a great board.

I haven't had him evaluated for this but previous strokes I have. I don't know if he had a stroke though, every other time I was right there when he had his strokes and I knew that's what he was having. I don't know what happened to him he was fine one time when I looked at him and the other time he was down and couldn't get up. He was seen however ten days ago for a different problem and put on antibiotics and stomach medicine for seven days. And, while at that visit, she said that she noticed that his legs were getting worse and that if it came the time that he couldn't get up for 48 hours then it was time to put him down. So, I guess, I have been too chicken to take him in for this because I know she is going to tell me to put him down. I know I shouldn't do that.

Since Monday, he has started eating for me (people food of course), ensure (I give him 5 tblsps every few hours), and whatever else I can get him to eat. We have given him a little liver for two days since his anemia has gotten worse. All in all, he seems to be enjoying everything that he's getting. The only thing that seems to be bothering him right now is the fact that he can't get up. Now, he was persistent here just a few minutes ago and managed to get up and stay up for a good three minutes or more just standing there and then he tried to walk around and even though he only wants to go in circles, he was walking a little. I thought that it was because he had to go to the bathroom but he didn't produce anything so maybe it was just to move. The circles are also making me think that it was a stroke of some kind, but he has been going in circles now for almost a year, just not as defined as right now.

He doesn't seem to be in pain, but he also takes Etogesic daily for his arthritis. He takes Enalypril daily for his heart, he has an enlarged heart with a murmur and an iron vitamin twice daily for his anemia, yesterday I bumped it up to three times a day. I also am going to start him on Nutracal because he quit taking his other multi-vitamin. It has been almost a year since he had his last senior work up and they wanted to give him one ten days ago but he was sick and we decided to just go with the antibiotic and stomach pill for now. I didn't have a chance to schedule him for the work up because he did this.

I have been massaging/rubbing his back legs and yesterday I put my finger between his pads on his foot and he kicked it back, so I know he has some movement or something still left in them. One is weaker than the other for sure. I haven't done the other exercises, I never even thought about doing those. I think I did try to push on his feet today and I don't think I got any pushing back out of him or not. I tried putting him in our tub filled to the top with water to see what he would do and he did nothing, that kind of disappointed me. I found the cart with the four wheels that someone made out of pvc pipe and dh said that he could make that for him no problem.

At 18 he's gone through a lot and for some reason he keeps hanging on. Well, I need to go for now, thank you again for your advice and support. I hope I answered all of the questions that was asked. I'm not sure how to post a picture but I'll give it a shot.

APRIL

[puremutt]

Buy a sling or use a towel so at least he can take a couple of steps outside with you.
He doesn't seem to have pain, good luck keep us posted.

[Libby]

Hi,
I just posted about my standard poodle who passed away suddenly last Saturday. I was struck by your description of what happened to your little guy. You mentioned anemia, and I think my dog died of IMHA. You might want to do some research because poodles are susceptible and my Phoenix had a similar episode: he collapsed and urinated on himself and his gums were very pale. The vet thought he'd thrown a clot. I don't believe there is any treatment for IMHA except for blood transfusions which your boy is too old for (as was Phoenix, at 13 he was at the upper end for a standard.) I agree with the others that a cart might not be the way to go. I would take him out and about in a baby carriage and use a sling to help him go the bathroom- a rear end harness is better than a belly sling for a male dog. Good luck and just keep on loving him for as long as you have. I was glad that my 20 year old son, who is away at college, had been coming home frequently to spend time with Phoenix, knowing that we didn't have much time left. Keep us posted...

[aprmar]

Hello All,

I'm not sure if this is going to work. I've tried to post two other times and neither one worked. So, if it does, here is a picture of him just about two years ago.

He's such a sweetie!

[GabrielDeafBlindPupFamily]

He sure doesn't look like an old feller of 18, he looks like a little baby.
You can continue massage to keep blood flow to the tissues, and because it allows you both quiet time to share your love for each other.
He is just adorable...

[aprmar]

Well, I wanted to update you all on my little man................

I am just heart broke! For the past week he has been very angry that he couldn't get up, he tried and tried and tried without success. We made him the wheelchair, which he didn't seem to mind for about 10 minutes or so, but the only thing he could do in it was circles. So, then he would start barking, which in a way was kind of cute because you never heard anything out of him unless he was lost or walked himself into a place in the house that he couldn't get out of.

Well, yesterday I was holding him in my lap while I was working (I'm a typist at home), and he was so content and fell right to sleep. Well, I could only hold him for about 10 or 15 minutes and then I had to put him back on his bed because I couldn't get my work done in time if I continued to hold him. Well, I am so thankful that I got that chance to hold him because about 45 minutes later, he passed away while he was sleeping.

I am just devastated! I mean I knew the day was near but that doesn't make it any easier and my little man was my child as I don't have any yet. So, I took him to the pet cemetery and layed him in his bed with his toy and covered him with a blanket and they will take care of everything Monday morning where he will lay next to his "brother".........I can take solace in the fact that his "brother" will look out for him as they were misfits but they were so close.

So, I want to thank everyone that gave me advice and kind words.........You all are just great. Have a great day and God Bless!

APRIL

[puremutt]

I am soooooooo sorry about your loss, words won't help you at this time.
The only thing beautiful for you is that he was in your lap , you were home with him and it was peaceful.
He was content to be with you and fell asleep.
You gave him the best life he could get.

[GabrielDeafBlindPupFamily]

I am so so so so sorry! Your little man was with his family, and he will be waiting for his mom at the www.RainbowBridge.com .
Your little man, you will be half awake, tears starting to form as your awareness of your loss resurfaces, and you will see him in the corner of your eye. You will think in your half sleep that he is asleep on the corner of the bed.
BELIEVE, April, that IS your little man.
It happened to me with my Buddy. I saw him at least 3 times after he passed.
HUGS TO YOU APRIL! I am sooo very sorry for your loss...
We will have A GRAND reunion at the Bridge.