HELP CAN NOT EXPRESS OVERWEIGHT DOG

[steddydogs]

My doxie had surgery a week ago and we have been unable to express him successfully at home. We have taken him back to the vet who was easily able to express him and show us once more, but we at best get dribbles. I am so worried since I read on one of the forums his bladder will become unable to work on it's own if we can't express it since it keeps emptying out on it's own soaking his pee pad lined bed. He is overweight. I really can't feel anything that feels like a bladder, just a very swollen tummy to me. I have checked out the web for how to's, but I still can't get it. I feel like I am hurting him with my constant trying (well every couple of hours). The doctor gave him an 80% chance of getting better after surgery. He does have deep pain sensation. We helped him poo last night and he lifted his tail. That's a good sign right? [/b]

[Dianne]

We're glad that you found us.

A plump doxie would be about the size of a large housecat. Look at this xray showing the location of a bladder in a cat. It would be about the same location in a doxie.
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_ca ... tails.html

When my plump doxie became paralyzed (no surgery) I expressed him every few hours, too. I don't think that you are hurting him. Does he indicate that he is in pain? If so, you might ask the vet for pain meds.

If you are going for longer periods between expressing there is a risk of a urinary tract infection (UTI). You could also ask the vet for a preventative antibiotic during this time when you are learning to express.

Expressing: I use a method with clenched fists that cover a larger area than finger tips. You will see his tail elevate when he is about to release urine. If I were to guess, I would say that you are not hitting the magic spot. Try an area; if you are unsuccessful getting him to release urine, move your hands into another position. Keep trying.

I stand my doxie ontop of the dryer, which is a good height for me, and express him into an old washcloth which is then tossed into a doggie diaper pail.

Unfortunately, I didn't find this bb until my dog was 3 weeks paralyzed, and I had NO help from the vet teaching me how to express. I read the internet, and kept trying. You CAN do this.

If you are really frustrated, go back to the vet, and have the vet tech demonstrate again.

So sorry for your frustration. Life does get better.

Dianne

[critters]

I had the same problem when Buddy came home; I'd read the bb MANY times and roughly knew the procedure, plus I had human and critter medical experience. I had more trouble learning to express than I thought, a fact that embarrasses me to this day. Anyway, it just takes practice to learn to "Tiptoe through the Guts" and feel the water balloon waiting in there. Buddy's was always right between his hips. Frankly, even as much as I loved that vet, I found the most help and info right here at HP.

[steddydogs]

Thanks for your reply. I am still trying but still unsuccessful to express my tubby boy so I made an appointment with a new vet who is closer to have yet another lesson. Woody's legs seemed "limper" this morning as I was doing the range of motion exercises. Hopefully his check up will put my biggest fears to rest as my husband has indicated that we would probably have to "foster" the dog out if he remains paralyzed since we have a new puppy, a five year old, a fifteen year old, and a new grandbaby living with us(along with her parents) who has a disability and will be undergoing amputation of her arm soon. Woody was rescued by us 3 years ago and I can't imagine abandoning him. It's only been a week so I am trying to remain hopeful. I did read something about a sleep pee bed and my son in law thinks he could make one, but that doesn't change the whole expressing problem. Thanks for the support though. I really need it just now.

[Dianne]

Is your doxie taking steroids to reduce the disk swelling, and also crate resting?

If not, mmediately put your doxie into crate rest. I assumed that he was already there. Please try this.

Crate resting could make the BIG difference in the surgical outcome. I used a cardboard moving box, as that is what I had available. Others use a small kennel where your doxie can only turn around. Supply a bowl of water, a blanket or favorite toy, and keep him crated 24/7 for about 6 to 8 weeks.

No more climbing stairs, jumping, or walking around the house until crate resting is complete. Carry him to express.

Here is a post surgical sheet with some important information.

http://www.dodgerslist.com/lit/CrateRRP.pdf

(edited to correct link)

I can understand your frustration about caring for multiple things. I'm also caring for multiple people and animals. It IS possible to do this and care for the others. Expressing should not require that much time when you master it.

Please write back and let us know if the new vet is willing to work with you. I have phone interviewed some vet offices by indicating that I have a paralyzed dog, and asking if they are prepared to handle such cases.

Dianne

[steddydogs]

Thank you. Yes, he is on steroids and yes, he is "crate resting". I have him in his bed in a small play yard. He hasn't even attempted to move about. The new vet was very helpful and consulted with his surgeon. She ended up catherizing him since his bladder was so full and she showed me how to attempt to express him with him lying on his side which might be easier given his weight (although he's down 2lbs. yeah). He seems very uncomfortable lying like that though. He was a lot happier once he was completely emptied and the vet although she didn't measure the quantity commented on how "incredibly full" he was. She gave me a prescription for two types of medicines to stimulate his bladder which I am having filled now. She also wants me to bring him back tomorrow to have him catherized once more so that the bladder stands a better chance of getting back to it's normal size. The exam was a little disturbing since he seemed to have no pain sensation on his right side which was his "feeling side" after surgery, but he did have pain sensations on his left. He also seemed to be shutting off his urine flow himself when she tried to manually express him which I take as a very good sign. Thanks so much just for you're being here and responding. I felt alone and losing it. It doesn't feel like such a dark tunnel knowing someone else has passed through it before.

[Dianne]

Yes, there have been others on this bb who had greater success expressing on the side, instead of while standing.

I'm assuming that you read the link about expressing:
http://www.handicappedpets.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Express_a_dog_or_cat

Here is the comment from someone who expresses their dog while he is on his side. Usually it is done with large, heavy animals; do whatever works for you.

Expressing a dog who is lying down

Anyway, she weighs 46 lbs, so expressing her with her in standing position is extremely difficult, if not impossible. At wee hours this morning, I placed her on bed on her side and started massaging/pressing firmly but gently the entire abdomen, as you guys taught, from where the rib cage ends, using my right thumb on one side and the other four fingers on the other and w/ my left hand placing on her back to help pushing.

Actually I couldn't feel "the" balloon but urine did came out! Tried that again at 10 am this morning and it worked.

I'm really glad to hear that the new vet is working WITH you. Don't give up. Some people do catherize their dogs for a while before expressing, or in place of expressing.

Perhaps someone else will come along soon and offer more advice for your success. I know that this is a frustrating, difficult time for you and your family, but we all want you to succeed.

Dianne

[Cindidoxiemom]

I have a "plump" dachshund and I had the exact same problem when learning to express him. You might ask about phenoxybenzamine. It helps relax the bladder sphincter and makes expressing easier. Oscar was on phenoxy until I became proficient at it.

You might also ask about putting your dog on an antibiotic to act as a preventative for UTI while you are learning.

With Oscar...I start up at the top of his body..just beneath his spine. With two closed fists...I move down toward the ground squeezing with a firm, constant pressure until I feel his bladder....Then I simply spread my fingers out a bit and apply steady pressure to the bladder until it releases and he pees.

You will get the hang of it. Look at the graphics that have been posted.....keep going back to the vet.....

You can do it!
Cindi

[pmilner]

We all had problems feeling the bladder at first. So join the club. It will take some practice to get good at feeling the bladder, keeping it in your hands and getting most all the urine out.

Don't give up. You can do it. There are many different holding position, finger/hand positions. You will find the one that works for you. This was my solution: http://users.cyberport.net/~milnerwm/Expressing.html

Tips

• There may be a delayed reaction til the urine comes out—hold 3 secs before repositioning hands.
  
  You need to express til urine comes out in dribbles rather than a stream, then the bladder is pretty much empty.
  
  Sometimes waiting 10-20 seconds and pressing again gives the bladder time to reform and you can get still more urine out. Keep trying til you find the “sweet spot.”
  
  Sometimes your doxie will tense up his stomach muscles, wait til he relaxes so you can feel for the bladder.
  
  When the bladder is really full you won’t discern a shape just a firm stomach which is the bladder. As the bladder empties it may feel like a small plum. And when it is empty it will be flat.
  
  As the bladder empties and gets smaller, it will move around. So it won’t always be in the same position in the body. You will need to feel for it. You’ll probably find it’s moved farther back into the hip area.
  
  If your dachsie wiggles during expressing it can cause the bladder to slide out from your hands.
  
  Some dogs are just harder to express initially. Ask your vet about Phenoxybenzamine, a drug that helps relax the urinary sphincter and makes expressing easier.

Give your doxie the best chance to recover by doing 100% 6 weeks STRICT crates rest. 24/7 only out to potty and carried back and forth from crate. No laps, no couches, no sleeping in bed with you. More details on doing crate rest: http://www.dodgerslist.com/lit/CrateRRP.pdf

As for fostering him out, your husband does not realize that after the initial period while trying to figure out bodily schedules, routines, etc, there really is not much more care needed for a non-ambulatory dog, it's totally doable. But we are hoping for that 80% by you doing good crate rest with him.

Until all the swelling goes down from surgery there may be a setback in neuro functions from before surgery. That takes about 2 weeks. So don't get disheartened. Stay positive and never give up hope. The body repairs what is possible on it's own schedule.

--
Paula Milner
Lewis and Clark (3 surgeries, paralyzed since Jan 2007;
Sept 10, 2007 superficial pain sensation)
Dachsie IVDD Care FAQ:
http://users.cyberport.net/~milnerwm/dachsieFAQ.html

[CarolC]

Sometimes your doxie will tense up his stomach muscles, wait til he relaxes so you can feel for the bladder.

I have found that deeply kneading the abdomen by large handfuls with quite a bit of pressure causes my dog to relax a rigid abdomen fairly quickly. In her case I don't think tensing is intentional, she is paralyzed at mid-back.

[steddydogs]

I finally got his bladder expressed!!! Not sure if it emptied though as I got three very steady streams but they kept shutting off. The new vet gave him two prescriptions one is bethanechol which is supposed to trigger bladder contractions and the other is dibenzyline. He just started on the dibenzyline at 3:00 p.m. yesterday. He ate normally this am and then drank for 60 seconds. But it had been five hours and he kept refusing water and was panting. I diluted chicken broth and he drank that. I took his temp and it was 101.3. The Dibenzyline says one of the warning side effects could be over heating so do you think I should discontinue that? Thanks again for everyone's help and advise.

[pmilner]

Dog's normal rectal temperature is 100.5 to 102.5 degrees Fahrenheit. Good that you know all the side effects for each m ed.

Seems like you've found the right spot! And maybe the meds are helping too. While you are learning to get pretty much all the urine out at a session keep your doxie hydrated. Give him a drink (1/4 cup) after expressing and be ready to express in another 2-4 hours.

Keep reviewing the tips while you are learning. Good job!

--
Paula Milner
Lewis and Clark (3 surgeries, paralyzed since Jan 2007;
Sept 10, 2007 superficial pain sensation)
Dachsie IVDD Care FAQ:
http://users.cyberport.net/~milnerwm/dachsieFAQ.html