Desperate - still struggling to express cat bladder

For those seeking advice on caring for incontinent pets and animals with kidney-related problems.
Danee6cats
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Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:51 am

Re: Desperate - still struggling to express cat bladder

Post by Danee6cats »

Woke up to a suprise this morning, Baby had wee-d on the matress that we've put on the floor for her (my husband was with her and one of our other cats, Rascal but if definitely wasn't Rascal), then she went to the litter box and poohed. Of course she poohed again twice outside of it but at least we know she's got some sensation down there!

We took her out in the back yard (fenced)for the first time since the accident. She loved it as she's always been a mainly outdoor kind of girl, she laid in the sun, ate a little, got her meds for the pain, we expressed her out there too, she doesn't like doing it inside at all, keeps going to the back door and looking forlornly at us. That's always been her signal for us to let her out to do her thing. It gave me a chance to mop up the floor and treat the mattress and put it outside for a while too. Of course the first thing she did when she came back in was poo on the kitchen floor but I'm pleased as punch that she did it!

My husband is going to our regular vet tomorrow for a lesson in expressing her and to pick up supplies,
those pads for bedwetting,
rubber gloves,
baby wipes - are these ok to use for cleaning her back end and tail after expressing her?,
vasaline,
a couple of soft pillows or pet beds so we can put the mattress back before it gets ruined)

We also are talking about getting a fountain for drinking for her. She's not interested in water at the moment and we don't want to keep having to syringe it in her mouth if there is an alternative (She's really freaked out when we do it and I think that is putting her off even more to drinking from the bowl). She'll take a bit mixed in with her food but only a bit. Not nearly enough according to what we've read. She's 6 pounds and we know it's supposed to be 30 ml per pound then we measured it out yesterday, in human terms not much but in cat terms, she's not taking in half of it in a day! We've tried all our tricks that have worked with our others when they are sick (why do cats always seem go off the one thing that they need the most when they are sick?), short of mixing it with dirt from the garden, I'm at a loss to how to get her to drink more?

Any advice for us on the supplies?

Again thanks to each and every one of you for being here and giving all this advice and sharing your experiences.

Baby Kitty says thank you too, here's a foto of her (and no those aren't her ciggies!)
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critters
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Re: Desperate - still struggling to express cat bladder

Post by critters »

Danee6cats wrote:Woke up to a suprise this morning, Baby had wee-d on the matress that we've put on the floor for her (my husband was with her and one of our other cats, Rascal but if definitely wasn't Rascal), then she went to the litter box and poohed. Of course she poohed again twice outside of it but at least we know she's got some sensation down there! That's a great start!

We took her out in the back yard (fenced)for the first time since the accident. She loved it as she's always been a mainly outdoor kind of girl, she laid in the sun, ate a little, got her meds for the pain, we expressed her out there too, she doesn't like doing it inside at all, keeps going to the back door and looking forlornly at us. That's always been her signal for us to let her out to do her thing. It gave me a chance to mop up the floor and treat the mattress and put it outside for a while too. Of course the first thing she did when she came back in was poo on the kitchen floor but I'm pleased as punch that she did it!

My husband is going to our regular vet tomorrow for a lesson in expressing her and to pick up supplies,
those pads for bedwetting, I don't prefer blue pads for handicappers. I prefer cloth washables, which are more absorbent, for them. Mattress pads work great, and crib-size ones are my faves except for the bed itself. An old, floppy one works great on top of the blankets and bedding when there's a leaker in the house.
rubber gloves,
baby wipes - are these ok to use for cleaning her back end and tail after expressing her?, We use them all the time.
vasaline, If you're using it for skin protection, you might want to consider a spray, like Cavilon. They usually like to eat petroleum jelly, and it can make poops loose.
a couple of soft pillows or pet beds so we can put the mattress back before it gets ruined)

We also are talking about getting a fountain for drinking for her.Some of my monsters like fountains. You could also try flavoring the water, like with a splash of liquid meat broth, or a bit of canned food or baby food stirred in. She's not interested in water at the moment and we don't want to keep having to syringe it in her mouth if there is an alternative (She's really freaked out when we do it and I think that is putting her off even more to drinking from the bowl). She'll take a bit mixed in with her food but only a bit. Not nearly enough according to what we've read. She's 6 pounds and we know it's supposed to be 30 ml per pound then we measured it out yesterday, in human terms not much but in cat terms, she's not taking in half of it in a day! We've tried all our tricks that have worked with our others when they are sick (why do cats always seem go off the one thing that they need the most when they are sick?), short of mixing it with dirt from the garden, I'm at a loss to how to get her to drink more?LOL! You're wise to try to get her to drink, and it's both easier and more effective when they can, and do, do it themselves.

Any advice for us on the supplies?

Again thanks to each and every one of you for being here and giving all this advice and sharing your experiences.

Baby Kitty says thank you too, here's a foto of her (and no those aren't her ciggies!)
Image
Danee6cats
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Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:51 am

Re: Desperate - still struggling to express cat bladder

Post by Danee6cats »

Well today was another visit to the vet (our regular one) who is checking her and offered to let us bring her in if we don't get the hang of expressing her for a while. I'd done it this morning before work for the first time solo and got a fair bit and with less trauma than usual for her since she was a bit dopey. So the vet checked her and she was empty! Wooo hooo for me! Although Duncan was a bit dissappointed that he still hasn't gotten a good stream, he's still unsure of what to squeeze and how hard. It's not helping his ego either that I'm the one who has small hands with arthritis and she and I are getting pretty good at this. Dncan gave it a go again a few minutes ago, got frustrated and sad that she is complaining and gave her to me, we hit the spot again but I know he's gonna get it soon.

She ate and drank quite a bit today which is Duncan's successful area, he and she went out back with the other cats and she drank from the communal bowl (with dirt of course) like she was wondering why we hadn't included her in this delicious treat from the beginning! Cats!

She poohed in the litterbox again, she just goes there and acts like she normally would, a few times a day, of course there is no control back there, Duncan got down and looked, he said it just pops out with no muscle movement, and of course more follows a few minutes later outside the box, but we are really hopeful and thrilled that she is drinking again!

Thanks Critters, we know that the pads will be too expensive in no time, I used to work at a laundry and have a million ripped and stained white towels that we can throw around, Our sofa is ripped thanks to cats and Duncan's guitars (we bought it second hand after asking our landlords for no soft furnishings because we know that Baby has singlehandedly destroyed on sofa to the point where she could climb inside with her prey and you would see the outlines of mice, lizards, birds and Baby running around inside it. That landlord denounced us (it's like sueing in small claims court) for one destroyed sofa and cat poop in the orchard (the court dismissed both charges and laughed at the second one!) this landlord seems to be happy to have renters who don't ask for much and pay on time, in spite of having half a dozen cats. Anyway, down the road if we have to throw out the sofa and our area rugs, well so be it. The sofa can't poke her nose in our side and knead us and purr like Baby did and still does. Baby has always been a sprayer too, computers, guitars, my doll collection, cupboards, windows, the new monitor on this computer.....if it is vertical, it's gotten the Baby Kitty treatment and that's ok, if it's her wee, Gabana just tried to do it on my lap and she got a telling off.

She is loving her new bed, she slept in it last night, none of the other cats are allowed near it. The sofa bed mattress will go back into the sofa once Rascal and Poppy and Punky start their spring and summer night time activity, which won't be long now.


So a great day all in all.
Danee6cats
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Re: Desperate - still struggling to express cat bladder

Post by Danee6cats »

Well, I got clobbered this morning, a claw thru the cheek and lip, but good news is Duncan said something clicked for him today and he's twice emptied Baby Kitty on his own. He's making dinner tonight too.

Had a chat with the girls at work today about ginger haired guys, I don't care what they think, mine is a keeper!
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critters
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Re: Desperate - still struggling to express cat bladder

Post by critters »

There's just something that has to "click" to get expressing, and I'm glad Duncan got it! :D
Danee6cats
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Re: Desperate - still struggling to express cat bladder

Post by Danee6cats »

He did get it and then I failed miserably at it yesterday. Today he made me do it for the most part, and I did ok. I'm really proud of him, I know how hard it was for him. It's our second marriage, he has no kids, I have one son. who sat on a cactus one day when he was a toddler, I understand "tough love". For him, the cats are his babies and he has never had to do something that so obviosly was uncomfortable for them. He's done it, even though it goes against everything he feels for her, our first rescue kitty together.

She seems to be getting back quite a bit of feeling at least as far as letting us know when she is full, she is doing a run around dance, back and forth to the litterbox. She actually dug two holes in the back yard yesterday while I was at work and Duncan swears she did a little wee. She is eating and drinking again too (well taking water mixed with soft food, the others can hear the tins open and are right there waiting for the left overs.

We have been discussing this all meat diet that some of you have talked about. The idea of raw chicken makes us both nervous, the cats would love it but our neighbors with real live chickens might not appreciate our new strict carnivores and could she and they get sick from raw chicken? I would assume pork, which is plentiful and cheap here, would be too fatty for a kitty cat.

She is still loving the new bed, and hating us making her go wee, I have scratches all over my face and arms. Actually she impaled my cheek and lip but I wouldn't take to kindly to someone doing that to me either. (I have vague memories of kicking a doctor who did something similar). The other cats, if they are in when we do it, all head to the door or window, I'm sure they are afraid they are next.

Once again, you guys are stars! Thank you!
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critters
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Re: Desperate - still struggling to express cat bladder

Post by critters »

Danee6cats wrote:He did get it and then I failed miserably at it yesterday. Today he made me do it for the most part, and I did ok. I'm really proud of him, I know how hard it was for him. It's our second marriage, he has no kids, I have one son. who sat on a cactus one day when he was a toddler, I understand "tough love". YEOOW!!! :shock: For him, the cats are his babies and he has never had to do something that so obviosly was uncomfortable for them. He's done it, even though it goes against everything he feels for her, our first rescue kitty together.It's probably less that it's uncomfortable and more that it's a crimp in their day. Cats don't like to be restrained, constrained, or strained of any sort. :twisted:

She seems to be getting back quite a bit of feeling at least as far as letting us know when she is full, she is doing a run around dance, back and forth to the litterbox. She actually dug two holes in the back yard yesterday while I was at work and Duncan swears she did a little wee. She may well have.She is eating and drinking again too (well taking water mixed with soft food, the others can hear the tins open and are right there waiting for the left overs.That makes life SO much better when at least they take care of those 2 basics.

We have been discussing this all meat diet that some of you have talked about. The idea of raw chicken makes us both nervous, the cats would love it but our neighbors with real live chickens might not appreciate our new strict carnivores and could she and they get sick from raw chicken?I've heard that they can catch stuff from raw meat, and it makes sense. I would assume pork, which is plentiful and cheap here, would be too fatty for a kitty cat.

She is still loving the new bed, and hating us making her go wee, I have scratches all over my face and arms. Actually she impaled my cheek and lip but I wouldn't take to kindly to someone doing that to me either. (I have vague memories of kicking a doctor who did something similar). The other cats, if they are in when we do it, all head to the door or window, I'm sure they are afraid they are next. :lol: You're probably right!

Once again, you guys are stars! Thank you!
visitingpetnurse
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Re: Desperate - still struggling to express cat bladder

Post by visitingpetnurse »

I know expressing bladders is no fun for any of the participants but is necessary. It may help to make it a two person job- one to express, the other to help distract and reduce scratches/bites.

As for raw meat:
1) All raw meat carries the risk of illness: Salmonella with chicken; trichinosis with pork
2) I would talk with your vet as high protein diets are tough on the kidneys. It could make things worse.

Good luck and hang in there.
Mary Weed LVT
Ypsilanti, MI
Danee6cats
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Re: Desperate - still struggling to express cat bladder

Post by Danee6cats »

Yep two people was much easier than one, the husband holding her, keeping her calm, she didn't even notice what I was doing on the back end.

Have updates which I have been hesitant to add, you will understand in a moment.`Don't worry, she is alive and well, and full of piss and vinegar as she always is.

The last week that I posted, Baby seemed to get her control over pee pee back, pooh seems to pop out randomly, but the vet said, yes she had complete control as far as urinating goes. Happy days and a little bit more freedom as far as outside time went for her (with supervision) but at this weeks appointment, the vet said her tail had been futher damaged and that we needed to get it off, just as we were seeing her regain control of the upper 3rd, she definitely had feeling there too. Today they took the whole tail off. I think Duncan and I are feeling it more than she is, but at least we know now that she won't get a secondary infection that could possibly shorten her life. It's hard to look at that back end at the moment even if it was only flopping around at the moment

So that is BK sorted for the moment, now we have Poppy and Gabby with urinary tract infections and Cleopatra, Cleopatra is a story unto herself, some sort of tumor but she is too old according to the doctors to even operate to see what it is. She is getting shrimp and softfood until we think she is past the point of happiness.
plap17
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Re: Desperate - still struggling to express cat bladder

Post by plap17 »

I am still curious, if anyone can offer, what is the longest time that recoup has actually occurred? I am 7 months in having been told 3 - 6 months and one vet who saw bladder recovery at a year. And I personally know of someone who had success at 9 months. Nerve repair - if seriously damaged but not broken - can be dreadfully long. Just looking for other experience and/or testimonials. Trying to hang in there.
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critters
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Re: Desperate - still struggling to express cat bladder

Post by critters »

Plap--It probably took a good year for Koi to stop leaking so much, plus nobody knows how long before that he'd been shot. It had been months, anyway. I don't remember his timeline, but the point is that it can take a good while. It kind of sneaks up on you--all of a sudden I would realize that he had stopped dropping "tootsie rolls" or whatever. :shock: :D
Danee6cats
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Re: Desperate - still struggling to express cat bladder

Post by Danee6cats »

Plap, I did worry when I wrote about Baby, that her speediness in getting back her urinary ability might frustrate you and some of the others, it shocked us and her vets, the neurologist origionally didn't hold out much hope for her but in that first visit he saw some reflexes in her bum. Her tail was broken right at the first bone after her pelvis and he told us it could take 6 to 9 months before we saw any improvement. Don't let what has happened with her get you down, obviously although she's now being called Baby Stumpy rather than Baby Kitty her nerves were hardly damaged at all and it was more the break that was causing problems.

This is our first cat with a a car injury, we've always lived way out in the country in Spain (on very scary mountain roads according to our friends) with almost no traffic and all of the cars going past had to go slowly because of dangerous curves and drop offs that no one could survive if they have gone over the side. We've had poisonings, we've had cats with cancer (Mummy Cat and her baby Cleopatra). We know we've been really lucky, and so has she.

I want to say don't give up hope ever but like with Mummy Cat there came a day when we knew that prolonging her life wasn't fair, and with her, I think we waited too long, the last few weeks of her life were torture to her. With Cleopatra we are seeing her slowly wind down, her tumor is around her heart and pressing on her other organs. She still is enjoying laying out in the sun, eating her shrimp (good protein according to the husband). Oddly enough, Duncan just came in to see Cleopatra and had "the talk" with me about what to do, or rather when.

I'm rambling, sorry, I just mean to say that I think you have done your best for your kitty and I know your posts have helped Duncan and I through this, I hope mine haven't disheartened you.
plap17
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Re: Desperate - still struggling to express cat bladder

Post by plap17 »

no, not at all. a dose of realism is always important. I'm in that 6 - 9 mo window now (7). There's always the thought/fear that perhaps a couples of weeks after I give up, recovery may have occurred. That's why I search for that 'longest, outside change of success". That said, I think there will just comes a time when you know.
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CarolC
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Re: Desperate - still struggling to express cat bladder

Post by CarolC »

My answer isn't really about the question, how long for recovery. I would like to say that speaking of objective information, there is a known phenomenon (known on this board anyway) in caring for a paralyzed pet that was first summed up in the post about "The Six Month Wonder". It may happen a little before 6 months, it may happen a little after. I think it applies particularly to those who are expressing, I don't think it matters whether it's a cat or a dog. I went through the same thing, I was so wiped out and not seeing progress. Others went through the same thing. I know you are partly just taking the objective approach searching for factual information, but if the timing applies to you, you are right on schedule. Here is Anita's message.

http://www.handicappedpet.net/helppets/ ... 745#p16745

The thing is, for some reason, it gets better. Don't know why. Don't know what changes. It doesn't seem to be anything you do, it just happens. Suddenly you are doing the same daily care only it just seems routine and you don't think anything of it. It's weird but it's real.

One thing I know is, it is rugged getting used to expressing, nobody should underestimate what it does to you because of your schedule. Friends and co-workers can't understand unless they've done it. I have always said if you were caring for a grandfather with Alzheimer's or a bedfast mother or something like that, you would have lots of community support because either others would have done it or were close to someone who has done it. But when you are caring for a paralyzed pet or a pet that needs expressing, you can be going through much the same thing in terms of time commitment, work, and with large animals even lifting, and nobody appreciates what you are going through. If you try to tell them, you may get someone saying "Why don't you just put the pet down." They don't get it. But people here do get it.

Here are a couple of things that partly apply to the situation.

http://geocities.com/petinspiration/

http://www.specialneedspets.org/caregvrs.htm
plap17
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Re: Desperate - still struggling to express cat bladder

Post by plap17 »

wonderful note. much appreciated.
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