Frequent UTI's

For those seeking advice on caring for incontinent pets and animals with kidney-related problems.
Post Reply
davidgrose
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:49 am

Frequent UTI's

Post by davidgrose »

Hi everyone,

I have a seven year old dog who is paralysed and incontinent, has been this way for about a year and a bit and lately her UTI's are becoming more frequent. To the point of every 2-3 months. I express her bladder often throughout the day and she has been on special food to combat the UTI's but she is still getting them. We get her antibiotics from the vet when she does get them which works but this is quite costly. Does anyone have any other strategies they use to combat the UTI's? As I said we changed her diet but this didn't seem to have any effect!

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
User avatar
CarolC
Moderator
Posts: 13698
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 7:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Frequent UTI's

Post by CarolC »

:welcome:

Does she wear a diaper? And if so, how many hours a day?

Is she easy to empty when you express her? Where along the spine is her injury?
davidgrose
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:49 am

Re: Frequent UTI's

Post by davidgrose »

She does wear a diaper around the house, during the night and if she is home alone for a long period of time. So she probably has one on for for 10 or so hours in total, I change it 3-4 times a day. Yeah it is quite easy to express her bladder by putting pressure on it. It's towards the bottom of her spine, Probably 3/4 of a way down
User avatar
CarolC
Moderator
Posts: 13698
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 7:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Frequent UTI's

Post by CarolC »

OK, wow, you change it a lot. 10 hours is not long to wear a diaper. Does it have a tail hole?
When she is not wearing the diaper, where is she staying? In a crate or playpen or out playing on the floor?
Does she ever go outdoors without a diaper? It is fine (in my experience anyway) as long as you express her after her outing every time. If she is someplace like a dirty public sidewalk in a shopping center, then you might need to both wash her bottom and express her after sitting or scooting someplace like that.

On another subject, has the vet actually cultured the urine when she gets an infection, or do they just do another round of amoxicillin or some general antibiotic? A culture takes longer and costs more but it can identify the specific "bug" involved and then they know the right antibiotic to use.

My dog does not wear her diaper at night. She does not sleep with me, she sleeps in a playpen and I give her clean bedding every night. That is more of a comment, though, I'm not sure it pertains to the recurrent UTIs. Sleeping bare bottom is good for her skin, though. I put her in her diaper after breakfast and she wears it till bedtime, then sleeps without one.
davidgrose
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:49 am

Re: Frequent UTI's

Post by davidgrose »

Yeah we just buy regular diapers and cut a tail hole in them! When I'm home with her I express her bladder outside and then will leave her diaper off until I go out again, I got told that it's better for her to not have a diaper on as much as possible to let it all air out etc. but not to sure about that!

Yeah she will always go for walks without her diaper on and I wash the area a few times a week. Each time she goes outside we usually express her or it will just happen when she is running in the wheels.

Well this this time around I didn't get her urine cultured due to costs but the last 3 times we have. The last one she had before this was really bad from what the vet told us and the UTI was starting to form crystals/stones in her bladder, or something along those lines! So she was on a strong antibiotic for that one. This time we have just got her on Clavulox.

Ok cool, well I might try that then and leave the diaper off her at night. She sleeps in a closed room so should be fine. Thanks so much for your time and help!
User avatar
CarolC
Moderator
Posts: 13698
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 7:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Frequent UTI's

Post by CarolC »

Hi David,

The way I look at diapers, they protect the world (your carpet and sofa) from urine, but they also protect your dog from the world. Like with my dog, I feel she is OK sleeping bare bottom in the playpen with clean bedding every night. It's all clean. But I would not put her on the carpet bare bottom. Partly I worry about the carpet, but also, the carpet is not clean, even if it looks like it. We are tracking in who knows what on the bottoms of our shoes all day. We walk on sidewalks where people spit and drop greasy food, and grocery store aisles, and public restrooms, and across the lawn where the neighbor's dog made a pit stop, etc., and all that grime comes home with us. So if your dog is roaming free anyplace, even indoors, I would put her in a diaper to have a barrier between her urinary area and the germy world. But if you have her safely confined in a crate or playpen or baby crib with clean bedding, she is not going to be as exposed to germs. I imagine she could theoretically still get some, because there will be some on the bottoms of her feet which will transfer to the clean bedding, but my dog seems to do OK that way. All I know is, the urinary tract is supposed to be a sanitary tract, and girl dogs can easily drag or scoot on their girl parts and unwittingly get dirt in places it should not be. So basically I agree with whoever said it is better to let the skin air for part of the day, but I do not really agree with letting the skin air out in the grass outdoors, only in a place that is very clean, like a playpen with fresh clean bedding. You do end up doing a load of doggy laundry every 2 or 3 days, but that's no big deal.

Glad you are already expressing after her outings. Glad you are putting a tail hole in her diaper. Some people think of dog diapers like baby diapers, a garment to keep in both liquid and solid waste. But that doesn't work with a female dog. You do not want feces collecting inside a diaper where it can contact her female area where the urinary tract is, or you run a big risk of creating a urinary infection from the fecal bacteria. The best thing is to have an ample tail hole to be sure the stools fall out and do not stay in the diaper or get smooshed against her skin. There is one member here who is a nurse and she really wanted the diaper to contain the solid waste as well as urine. She devised a system of double diapering. In other words, her dog would wear one snug fitting diaper close to the skin to collect urine. Then over that she wore a diaper cover with a loose fit but a tight tail hole, to collect any stools. So if her dog doodled during the day, it stayed inside the diaper cover but did not contact the urinary area because the snug inner diaper provided a barrier to keep her clean.

You might ask the vet what s/he recommends for cleansing? Some people here have used Chlorhexidine because it kills germs better than just soap and water. I think you can get it at Walgreen's. Hope you can track down what is causing it to keep returning. Sometimes you have to be a detective. We had one person here who finally figured out her dog was getting urinary infections from swimming in the creek because there was e coli in the water.
KatieD
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2015 8:06 pm

Re: Frequent UTI's

Post by KatieD »

Thank you! I love the idea of two separate diapers for the pee and poo for our female Katie! I wish the nurse that came up with it could describe in detail what she used and how to put it together!!! This could help with our Katie!!! Thank you so much!!!
User avatar
CarolC
Moderator
Posts: 13698
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 7:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Frequent UTI's

Post by CarolC »

KatieD wrote:Thank you! I love the idea of two separate diapers for the pee and poo for our female Katie! I wish the nurse that came up with it could describe in detail what she used and how to put it together!!! This could help with our Katie!!! Thank you so much!!!
Here are some of Judy's posts that may be helpful.

http://handicappedpet.net/helppets/view ... 301#p97301

http://handicappedpet.net/helppets/view ... 256#p65256

http://handicappedpet.net/helppets/view ... 347#p61347

I am also going to forward a couple of messages I have from her, so please check your private messages.
KatieD
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2015 8:06 pm

Re: Frequent UTI's

Post by KatieD »

Hi Carol...the grammamadeit email is not functioning anymore, and I don't know how to get into the my space thing. Does she have a new email address. I see that that post was from 2008. Sure would even like to see how they are made so I could make my own! Sue
KatieD
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2015 8:06 pm

Re: Frequent UTI's

Post by KatieD »

Hi Carol...guess I lost the original thoughts about antibiotic pulse therapy for dogs with UTIs? Any thoughts on that? Also...there are two other normal dogs in the household that are not picking up UTIs from the floors. Is Katie more vulnerable because of her condition?
User avatar
CarolC
Moderator
Posts: 13698
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 7:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Frequent UTI's

Post by CarolC »

KatieD wrote:Hi Carol...the grammamadeit email is not functioning anymore, and I don't know how to get into the my space thing. Does she have a new email address. I see that that post was from 2008. Sure would even like to see how they are made so I could make my own! Sue
Hi Sue,
There are closeup photos of how the pouch part is made in this link:
http://handicappedpet.net/helppets/view ... 347#p61347

I found this brand that might (?) serve as a substitute though made differently:
http://www.amazon.com/SnuggEase-Washabl ... B0048ZDZCI

Here's another one:
http://www.bellaspainrelief.com/dog-dia ... 2-prd1.htm

Another option would be a drag bag:
http://www.handicappedpets.com/walkin-drag-bag#photos
http://www.k-9cart.com/Diapers-Drag-Bags/Protect-A-Pet

I wonder if this lady on etsy could make you some, she makes them with the tail hole that ties, just needs to add the little pouch part.
https://www.etsy.com/listing/227877300/ ... _active_24

Perhaps if you send a private message to Judy, she would still have the contact for the seamstress who made the diapers. Judy's username is theservs.
User avatar
CarolC
Moderator
Posts: 13698
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 7:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Frequent UTI's

Post by CarolC »

KatieD wrote:Hi Carol...guess I lost the original thoughts about antibiotic pulse therapy for dogs with UTIs? Any thoughts on that? Also...there are two other normal dogs in the household that are not picking up UTIs from the floors. Is Katie more vulnerable because of her condition?
I am not a vet so it is hard for me to comment on the antibiotics. I only know I have heard of someone doing pulse therapy with their pet but it is not common here. One of the moderators had a dog on low dose antibiotics for something like 18 months. As a layman I tend to agree with you it might be better to use antibiotics only as needed, and also experience with your dog has shown that a general antibiotic is not going to prevent some of the infections that require a more specific type of antibiotic.

The way I understand it, the main problem with paralyzed dogs getting UTI stems from incomplete expressing. That does not mean you are not expressing properly, expressing each dog is different. I do think even when we express well, there is a chance we are leaving more "residual volume" than would be left if the dog expressed her own bladder through normal urination. I suspect (this is totally unscientific speculation) that this is a situation where the difference between expressing 94% and 95% of total urine could be the difference between UTI and not. You may be getting 95% (random number) every time you express her and then one day she does not express as completely for whatever reason, or her system is a little down for whatever reason, or she ate something sugary, or she has not been drinking enough water for some reason, or you oversleep or have other commitments and let her go too long without expressing (normally you get her done at least 5 times a day but one week you have jury duty or something) and that is the tipping point where infection occurs. I had a friend who was healthy but when she flew on the plane she did not want to use the restroom on the plane and got a UTI from holding it too long. It just happens. The other thing is, it is easier to express more completely when the dog is not overweight because you have a better feel for what you are doing. The same is true of having the colon empty of stool because again you can feel what you are doing better, but you said you already express her bowel so that is already covered. :)

There is medication you can use with your dog to relax the sphincter if you think her sphincter is too tight and making it difficult to express her as completely as you wish (phenoxybenzamine). There is also medication you can use to provide more tone in the bladder (bethanechol chloride).

As for a normal female dog being able to sit on dirty sidewalks, etc., and not get a UTI, that does seem to be true. I do not know about your dog, but with my "diaper dog" her vulva is more open than a normal dog due to her condition, so it is easier for dirt and germs to be massaged into the female area which also contains the urinary tract which is supposed to be sterile. If it was my dog, I think I would start cleansing her female area with chlorhexidine (like Hibiclens) or whatever your vet recommends before stimulating her with the toilet paper, or stimulate her with a wipe that is soaked with it maybe, as part of your routine.

And I really do think since your dog has firm stools you could let her have a tail hole in her diaper and solve most of the problem that way. Did you watch the video I linked, showing how the solid waste is leaving no trace on the clean white expressing pad? The stools are dry enough that they will not soil your carpet. If you still feel bad about your carpet, you could spray the spot where you "pick up" with a sanitizing product. I have used Trifectant on my carpet here and it does not cause discoloration. (NOTE: My carpet is made of synthetic fibers, it is not cotton or wool or anything, test in an inconspicuous spot on your rug first.) A bottle contains 50 tablets, you drop a tablet in a spray bottle of water and it fizzes and dissolves itelf. The solution remains effective for one week, then you make another bottle. Therefore it costs you about $34 a year. Just a thought...

http://www.kvsupply.com/trifectant-tablets-50-count
KatieD
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2015 8:06 pm

Re: Frequent UTI's

Post by KatieD »

Thanks so much for your quick responses! All good info, and it all makes sense. I will try all of it. I just hate to think that there might be nothing to prevent future UTIs because of the incomplete emptying of the bladder. Don't know how I can improve the process from what it is now. I wish there was a way to tell where the UTIs came from so one could concentrate on the specific problem. Am thinking of using plastic pants over the diaper with a bigger hole cut for the poop. Has anyone tried this? Would only use it when we leave her alone. Will try to post a picture of her here. Thanks again for all of your help! Sue
Attachments
Birkie2015 031.JPG
User avatar
CarolC
Moderator
Posts: 13698
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 7:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Frequent UTI's

Post by CarolC »

You know what? I do not recall anyone mentioning plastic pants for years, but to tell the truth, most people nowadays have never heard of them. :pardon: We used to put babies in cloth diapers, and plastic pants over that, but now that disposables are so common, I don't think people use them. I had a co-worker in his early 30's who mentioned his infant daughter's disposable diaper did not entirely protect the furniture, and I said, "Well, just put her in plastic pants," and he didn't know what I was talking about. I checked at Babies R Us at the time and they were still selling them for about $7, this was back around 2013. It certainly would not cost much to try.

She is a pretty girl, I can sure see the Walker, love those dogs. :wub: Her weight looks perfect. :trophy:
KatieD
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2015 8:06 pm

Re: Frequent UTI's

Post by KatieD »

Thanks! And she's the smartest dog I've ever known!
Post Reply