Hi...I posted about my dog awhile ago and got some lovely advice, so I hope to benefit from everyone's experience here. I'm rather new at this...
My dog recently came down with Vestibular disease and is being tested for low thyroid function. Long story short, this equates to LOTS of accidents in the house (both kinds) and the constant pacing and circling spread it everywhere. It's a nightmare but I love him and refuse to put him down as long as he is still happy.
I am going to try the poop on demand techniques that I saw here, but that will only help so much. The carpet is done for and I desperately need to pull it up due to the smell, but I am at a loss for ideas about protecting the floor underneath. I can't crate him (I tried and the cleanup is even worse) and he doesn't seem to have any preferred spot. How does one protect the floors from this? Do the male wraps really work well? My only worry with those is that with the amount he is drinking, he is producing an extremely high volume of urine, and I'm not sure a small pad can handle it. The diapers work well but have a tendancy to slip out of position while he's pacing so it's hit or miss...
Any advice would be much appreciated!
Advice?
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GabrielDeafBlindPupFamily
- Posts: 5011
- Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2003 7:00 pm
- Location: St. Helena Island, SC
Re: Advice?
Right up my alley!
on the "spot", put a dollar store plastic table cloth, cover with bath mat or fabric. TOSS ALL IN WASHING MACHINE!
Or puppy pee pads, which are a whole lot more expensive!
on the "spot", put a dollar store plastic table cloth, cover with bath mat or fabric. TOSS ALL IN WASHING MACHINE!
Or puppy pee pads, which are a whole lot more expensive!
Karen, Andy's ^i^ mom
Lethal White Aussies Rule!
INTERACTIVE RESCUE SITE!
http://www.s8.createphpbb.com/lethalwhiteauss/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LethalWhiteAussieRescue/
Lethal White Aussies Rule!
INTERACTIVE RESCUE SITE!
http://www.s8.createphpbb.com/lethalwhiteauss/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LethalWhiteAussieRescue/
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Cindidoxiemom
- Posts: 1359
- Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 2:17 pm
- Location: Houston, Texas
Re: Advice?
If you pull up your carpet, they make a cement sealer/paint. Check at Home Depot or Lowes. You could paint the cement so that you can just mop up the accidents.
Tile and laminent might also be options though they are more expensive. If you tile, be sure you seal the grout. I just bought a new house, and we arn't moving in until all the carpet is ripped up and tile is put down.
I do think the belly bands work pretty well, and depends pads are pretty good at absorbing since they would normally be used for humans.
I admire your love and dedication for your baby...you guys hand in there.
Hugs,
Cindi
Tile and laminent might also be options though they are more expensive. If you tile, be sure you seal the grout. I just bought a new house, and we arn't moving in until all the carpet is ripped up and tile is put down.
I do think the belly bands work pretty well, and depends pads are pretty good at absorbing since they would normally be used for humans.
I admire your love and dedication for your baby...you guys hand in there.
Hugs,
Cindi
I am not a vet; please consult your vet before making any treatment decisions.
Hunter IVDD Surgery x 2~Walking
Oscar IVDD Surgery x 1~ Paralyzed
Sage and Misty
Hunter IVDD Surgery x 2~Walking
Oscar IVDD Surgery x 1~ Paralyzed
Sage and Misty
Re: Advice?
Is your dog being given anything to help with the vestibular disease. My Bailey had one really bad bout and a smaller one and both times, prednisone got her back to normal. She also had a low thyroid and is on daily medication for it, even after her levels returned to normal.
I found that using a halter and a hip sling helped her manuever during the worst of this devastating dizziness they are experiencing. It is nearly impossible to hold a squat, thus the problems you are having. Unless Bailey had help, she would lose her balance and just give up. I am wondering if your boy is doing the same thing and then finally can not hold it any longer and ends up going in the house.
As far as carpet odor, I found an article a while back about using vinegar water to get rid of the odor. I will try to retrieve it and send it to you.
The vestibular problem will improve - they say 2 to 3 weeks, so just hang in there. Before they understood it, many owners would put their pets to sleep. It is called idiopathic vestibular syndrome or "old dog disease" even though it can affect younger dogs. Bailey is a little over 6 years old. They can't tell us what causes it which is why they call it idiopathic. To get an idea of what your dog is going through, just imagine the room spinning and you trying to walk straight or even just sit still.
I hope all goes well for you and your baby. You will get more information on the other subjects soon. This is all I know to help you with.
I found that using a halter and a hip sling helped her manuever during the worst of this devastating dizziness they are experiencing. It is nearly impossible to hold a squat, thus the problems you are having. Unless Bailey had help, she would lose her balance and just give up. I am wondering if your boy is doing the same thing and then finally can not hold it any longer and ends up going in the house.
As far as carpet odor, I found an article a while back about using vinegar water to get rid of the odor. I will try to retrieve it and send it to you.
The vestibular problem will improve - they say 2 to 3 weeks, so just hang in there. Before they understood it, many owners would put their pets to sleep. It is called idiopathic vestibular syndrome or "old dog disease" even though it can affect younger dogs. Bailey is a little over 6 years old. They can't tell us what causes it which is why they call it idiopathic. To get an idea of what your dog is going through, just imagine the room spinning and you trying to walk straight or even just sit still.
I hope all goes well for you and your baby. You will get more information on the other subjects soon. This is all I know to help you with.
Christine... and Bailey, playing at the Bridge
?/1999 - 10/25/08
Re: Advice?
I pulled up the carpet and pad and sealed the subfloor with Kilz paint. I then laid vinyl (miracle stuff, in my book!!). The wood-looking vinyl does nicely for us; I didn't want a kitchen-type pattern all over the house!! 
Re: Advice?
Found the article about urine clean-up. If you decide to try and 3work on the carpet instead of removing it. Comes from a household tips newsletter:
"Pet Urine Clean-Up
A carpet cleaning professional gave me this tip. All you need
to eliminate pet urine stains is a simple solution of equal
parts vinegar and water. That's it! This truly works better
than anything I have tried, and it is the least expensive
thing I've tried, too. Just blot the urine first with an
absorbent cloth, like microfiber, and then soak the stain with
the vinegar/water solution. I keep mine in a spray bottle. Let
it soak into the carpet and the pad, too, if necessary, and
then blot with a clean cloth. Since vinegar has the opposite
pH of urine, it counteracts both the color and the odor. I
have used this tip raising three puppies over the past eight
years, and your nose would never know it."
"Pet Urine Clean-Up
A carpet cleaning professional gave me this tip. All you need
to eliminate pet urine stains is a simple solution of equal
parts vinegar and water. That's it! This truly works better
than anything I have tried, and it is the least expensive
thing I've tried, too. Just blot the urine first with an
absorbent cloth, like microfiber, and then soak the stain with
the vinegar/water solution. I keep mine in a spray bottle. Let
it soak into the carpet and the pad, too, if necessary, and
then blot with a clean cloth. Since vinegar has the opposite
pH of urine, it counteracts both the color and the odor. I
have used this tip raising three puppies over the past eight
years, and your nose would never know it."
Christine... and Bailey, playing at the Bridge
?/1999 - 10/25/08
Re: Advice?
Wow! What a gold mine of information...Thank you all so much for the responses.
Depends...that makes perfect sense. I'll have to pick some up at the store and give it a try. That alone would make a huge difference.
He is not currently on anything for the Vestibular, although he is slowly improving. His balance is very good and he is able to go "out" unassisted, although he's still got a head tilt and he makes a lot of right hand turns. It's just that he is so very thirsty that he is drinking tons and tons of water and it's impossible to keep up with even when I am there. I was worried about kidney failure at first because it was constant and not concentrating, but the doc says his bloodwork looks good for his kidneys - that's actually how we discovered the low thyroid. He's going back in for more bloodword today to get us some more answers on that.
Oddly enough, the previous owners of my house laid wall to wall carpet over the original hardwood. I've been refinishing them room by room, but my fear is removing what little protection the carpet offers. I've thought about confining him to the kitchen, but the logistics of that are difficult. I'm considering the washable mat and blanket idea...that would help at least as much as the carpet and I can pick that up and wash it at least.
Depends...that makes perfect sense. I'll have to pick some up at the store and give it a try. That alone would make a huge difference.
He is not currently on anything for the Vestibular, although he is slowly improving. His balance is very good and he is able to go "out" unassisted, although he's still got a head tilt and he makes a lot of right hand turns. It's just that he is so very thirsty that he is drinking tons and tons of water and it's impossible to keep up with even when I am there. I was worried about kidney failure at first because it was constant and not concentrating, but the doc says his bloodwork looks good for his kidneys - that's actually how we discovered the low thyroid. He's going back in for more bloodword today to get us some more answers on that.
Oddly enough, the previous owners of my house laid wall to wall carpet over the original hardwood. I've been refinishing them room by room, but my fear is removing what little protection the carpet offers. I've thought about confining him to the kitchen, but the logistics of that are difficult. I'm considering the washable mat and blanket idea...that would help at least as much as the carpet and I can pick that up and wash it at least.
Re: Advice?
One other thought ... the vestibular combined with her blindness made Bailey absolutely terrified of slippery floors so I have rugs and runners on the tile parts of my house where she will want to walk. Before you take up your carpets, see how he is faring in that regard to make it easier on yourself while this dizziness is still here.
Christine... and Bailey, playing at the Bridge
?/1999 - 10/25/08
Re: Advice?
Yes, that thought had occurred to me as well. He isn't terrified of the tile in the kitchen or the hardwood in the bedroom, but I imagine he definitely has more traction on the carpet. I'm actually quite pleased with how well he balances now - only a little stumble here and there.
I'm not opposed to holding off on refinishing the living room hardwood and just covering it up with something else (washable) indefinitely...I did find a place online that sells rolls of plastic for hardwood floor protection during construction projects. I thought about doing that and then covering it up with washable mats for traction and absorption. It's awfully expensive though...and bright blue! =)
Poor Robbie...little does he know, we're heading out to the vet momentarily for the latest round of bloodwork. But he did well today - only two puddles and no other surprises for mommy!
I'm not opposed to holding off on refinishing the living room hardwood and just covering it up with something else (washable) indefinitely...I did find a place online that sells rolls of plastic for hardwood floor protection during construction projects. I thought about doing that and then covering it up with washable mats for traction and absorption. It's awfully expensive though...and bright blue! =)
Poor Robbie...little does he know, we're heading out to the vet momentarily for the latest round of bloodwork. But he did well today - only two puddles and no other surprises for mommy!
Re: Advice?
Sam's Club has some rubbery inter-connecting tiles that are about 18 x 18 that might be a temporary solution. You could pull up and wash just the affected "tiles" and put them back in place. Can't quite remember the colors. Seems like the price was around $19.95 for a 4' square. Someone else saw them also in another store and may remember more about them.
I just had my carpets professionally cleaned this week and there 3 spotsBailey lost control in the house during her bouts made spots that kept coming back. The carpet cleaner had me put down white towels over the areas after he cleaned each and we put 25 pound "weights" on those for 24 hours. He said that would pull the stain up from the pad and it sure did seem to work.
Glad to hear he is already improving without anything and if he never went in the house before this, that will probably resolve itself too. Usually, they hate it more than we do when they can't do their thing outside.
Take care.
I just had my carpets professionally cleaned this week and there 3 spotsBailey lost control in the house during her bouts made spots that kept coming back. The carpet cleaner had me put down white towels over the areas after he cleaned each and we put 25 pound "weights" on those for 24 hours. He said that would pull the stain up from the pad and it sure did seem to work.
Glad to hear he is already improving without anything and if he never went in the house before this, that will probably resolve itself too. Usually, they hate it more than we do when they can't do their thing outside.
Take care.
Christine... and Bailey, playing at the Bridge
?/1999 - 10/25/08
Re: Advice?
That's a great idea! I have a Sam's club around here too...now I just need to find my card...
I won't say he never went in the house because he has always had separation anxiety, but it was limited to the vinyl tile in the basement and infrequent enough to be manageable. Now we've got a huge puddle at least once an hour!
I won't say he never went in the house because he has always had separation anxiety, but it was limited to the vinyl tile in the basement and infrequent enough to be manageable. Now we've got a huge puddle at least once an hour!
Re: Advice?
Hi Klehinger,
The product I use here is enzyme based spray for pet accidents. They recommend it in Dog Fancy Magazine and it works. It does not merely cover up or deodorize spots, the enzyme is a live microorganism that goes into the organic material of the stain and digests it so it is truly gone. I have used 2 brands and they both work. One is Simple Solution, which has a very pleasant light scent and the other is Nature's Miracle which is unscented. I prefer the Nature's Miracle but some people prefer Simple Solution.
If you know where the spot is, you just spray it really well with the enzyme spray and forget about it. You do not need to do any scrubbing or blot it with paper towels, just spray it and walk away. If you do not know where the spots are, you can locate them by darkening the room and shining a black light on your carpet. The spots will glow in the dark and then you can see where you need to spray. There are several black lights on the market for pet stains, The one I have is The Spot Spotter by Simple Solution. I figured it would be really good because the Simple Solution company would want you to find as many spots as possible so they could sell you more enzyme spray.
The advantage of your dog not concentrating his urine (yes, I would wonder about that too, I might get a second opinion) is that there is not much organic material in his spots. I have a golden retriever with early stage kidney failure (he is on Science Diet k/d) and he drinks lots of water and urinates quite a bit, but like your dog he does not concentrate his urine.
As for concern over your wood floors, I hate to tell you this but if you do not have a pad under the carpet that has a plastic top layer to serve as a moisture barrier (in other words if you have a common foam pad) your floors may have black spots already. You need to pull up a corner of your carpet and look at what kind of pad is under it. If it is the moisture barrier pad with the plastic top layer, I would leave the carpet on the floor for as long as you have this dog and simply treat the spots with enzyme spray. If it is a regular foam pad, it may be too late. I guess it depends on how much of a poly coat was on the wood floor before they laid the carpet over it. If your carpet is over a plain foam pad it might be well to pull it all up because it is hard to get all of the odor out by saturating the rug with enzyme spray when the urine has also soaked down into the pad.
I know you said he does not seem to urinate in any chosen spot. I am attaching a picture anyway, showing how you can catch some urine by placing a puppytraining pad in key locations. I do this with my dog because even though he can no longer lift his leg to mark a spot, he still patrols the house and stops to piddle next to places he would mark if he could. In this photo, the pad is under the leg of the bunk bed. I have also safety pinned pads to the base of the cat tree, and used a small finishing nail to tack a clothespin to the woodwork of the doorway in order to fasten a pad in place where he used to piddle by the door frame. Even though you say your dog urinates everywhere, you might try puppy pads if you start to notice repeated spots by certain corners or pieces of furniture. It is easy for me to take up a wet puppy pad every couple of days and replace it with a clean one, and I can see by looking at the pad that I am catching a lot of urine this way.
The product I use here is enzyme based spray for pet accidents. They recommend it in Dog Fancy Magazine and it works. It does not merely cover up or deodorize spots, the enzyme is a live microorganism that goes into the organic material of the stain and digests it so it is truly gone. I have used 2 brands and they both work. One is Simple Solution, which has a very pleasant light scent and the other is Nature's Miracle which is unscented. I prefer the Nature's Miracle but some people prefer Simple Solution.
If you know where the spot is, you just spray it really well with the enzyme spray and forget about it. You do not need to do any scrubbing or blot it with paper towels, just spray it and walk away. If you do not know where the spots are, you can locate them by darkening the room and shining a black light on your carpet. The spots will glow in the dark and then you can see where you need to spray. There are several black lights on the market for pet stains, The one I have is The Spot Spotter by Simple Solution. I figured it would be really good because the Simple Solution company would want you to find as many spots as possible so they could sell you more enzyme spray.
The advantage of your dog not concentrating his urine (yes, I would wonder about that too, I might get a second opinion) is that there is not much organic material in his spots. I have a golden retriever with early stage kidney failure (he is on Science Diet k/d) and he drinks lots of water and urinates quite a bit, but like your dog he does not concentrate his urine.
As for concern over your wood floors, I hate to tell you this but if you do not have a pad under the carpet that has a plastic top layer to serve as a moisture barrier (in other words if you have a common foam pad) your floors may have black spots already. You need to pull up a corner of your carpet and look at what kind of pad is under it. If it is the moisture barrier pad with the plastic top layer, I would leave the carpet on the floor for as long as you have this dog and simply treat the spots with enzyme spray. If it is a regular foam pad, it may be too late. I guess it depends on how much of a poly coat was on the wood floor before they laid the carpet over it. If your carpet is over a plain foam pad it might be well to pull it all up because it is hard to get all of the odor out by saturating the rug with enzyme spray when the urine has also soaked down into the pad.
I know you said he does not seem to urinate in any chosen spot. I am attaching a picture anyway, showing how you can catch some urine by placing a puppytraining pad in key locations. I do this with my dog because even though he can no longer lift his leg to mark a spot, he still patrols the house and stops to piddle next to places he would mark if he could. In this photo, the pad is under the leg of the bunk bed. I have also safety pinned pads to the base of the cat tree, and used a small finishing nail to tack a clothespin to the woodwork of the doorway in order to fasten a pad in place where he used to piddle by the door frame. Even though you say your dog urinates everywhere, you might try puppy pads if you start to notice repeated spots by certain corners or pieces of furniture. It is easy for me to take up a wet puppy pad every couple of days and replace it with a clean one, and I can see by looking at the pad that I am catching a lot of urine this way.
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Re: Advice?
Looks like it's time for a trip to PetSmart =) Thanks for the tips...I like your methods of securing the pads. I had always wondered about the enzyme treatments, but I hadn't known anyone who had tried them. I'll give it a shot!
The carpet pad that I've pulled up in other rooms has been plain foam, although the prior owners did not take good care of it so it's required extensive refinishing. I was initially upset that they had slopped a thick layer of latex paint quite literally all over it, but it looks like that may turn out in my favor. Guess I won't know until I pull it up! I have a feeling that I'm just going to end up re-covering the floors for as long as I have him but I don't think I can live with the status quo for that long - not only does it smell bad, but carpet seriously aggravates my allergies.
Does your dog ever show variation in concentrating or is it fairly uniform? What other symptoms are good to look out for? Robbie seems to go back and forth...if he hasn't gone in awhile it seems normal, but if he has gone in the previous hour or two it's practically water. His thirst seems extreme at times, like he can't stop drinking. Recently, I've noticed that his coat quality is very poor. He's usually closely groomed but it's just not growing back like it used to...the fur seems to be super fine and it's growing back in little clumps. A couple of times he's seemed to be inexplicably cold but he is not in any pain. He hasn't gained weight, but he is not eating as much despite his appetite being very good (I've since learned that I now have to actively prevent the other dog from stealing his food - naughty girl!)
The carpet pad that I've pulled up in other rooms has been plain foam, although the prior owners did not take good care of it so it's required extensive refinishing. I was initially upset that they had slopped a thick layer of latex paint quite literally all over it, but it looks like that may turn out in my favor. Guess I won't know until I pull it up! I have a feeling that I'm just going to end up re-covering the floors for as long as I have him but I don't think I can live with the status quo for that long - not only does it smell bad, but carpet seriously aggravates my allergies.
Does your dog ever show variation in concentrating or is it fairly uniform? What other symptoms are good to look out for? Robbie seems to go back and forth...if he hasn't gone in awhile it seems normal, but if he has gone in the previous hour or two it's practically water. His thirst seems extreme at times, like he can't stop drinking. Recently, I've noticed that his coat quality is very poor. He's usually closely groomed but it's just not growing back like it used to...the fur seems to be super fine and it's growing back in little clumps. A couple of times he's seemed to be inexplicably cold but he is not in any pain. He hasn't gained weight, but he is not eating as much despite his appetite being very good (I've since learned that I now have to actively prevent the other dog from stealing his food - naughty girl!)