Need advice from FeLV/FIV experts

[Debbie-Spain]

Just when I really didn't need any more rescues, I plucked a cat from the middle of the main road Sunday, she was staggering around along the dotted line in the middle of the traffic, covered in engine grease, I think she may have dropped from an engine right there because she suddenly appeared in front of my eyes. After stopping the traffic and putting on a show for the tourists while trying to get her off the road, then out from underneath my car, where she had took refuge, with some help we finally cornered her. She was so weak she offered little resistance. I took her home (vets closed Sunday) and she ate and drank water as though she hadn't done for days. I even managed to gently stroke her head, and decided she would hold out till Monday.

She seemed a bit stronger when I took her to the vet Monday and she tested positive (ELISA) for both FeLV and FIV. I have fostered a few FIV cats but no FeLV. She is about 7 months old and I am doubtful about how reliable the test is, so while taking precautions to keep her separate from my other cats (apart from the fact that she is really wild and hissy so I will have to keep her caged for the moment) I would like to try to see if we can get her feeling a bit better then do a lab re-test in a few months. She pees and poops fine. Unfortunately, my vet, who is normally very competent with difficult cats but a bit over-confident about his own abilities, was rather careless (thinking she was too weak to resist) and got very badly bitten by her (he had to go to the ER). So her visit was cut short as the other vet was already off sick.

She is skin and bones and appears to be very anemic. She has a bit of snuffle but I have seen much worse. I can't touch her at the moment. I'm not sure if she might be deaf because I open the door and she doesn't react yet as soon as I get close to the cage she wakes up/starts and starts hissing. But maybe she is just exhausted.
I have put her on natural food (fish with rice and potatoes, no chemicals, plus a dried food that is 70% fish) and added a couple of herbs we usually use to try and boost immune systems (cat's claw and horsetail).

I do feel that her state is because she has been in some dreadful situation without much access to food rather than solely because of her possible virus state. I'm going to have to go this alone, my vet is one of the few here that would normally have helped us along with this cat (most would demand she be PTS, they don't want to treat complicated "wild cats" but I think she is young enough to try and socialise) but he told me in no uncertain terms he didn't want to see her again... so if I want to carry on, I'm pretty much on my own with her for the time being. My question to the cat experts is whether you would put her on zithromax for the snuffle, tetracyclines for possible hemobartonella (anemia) or leave well alone and see how much she improves with just a good diet? We do have tick problems here but I haven't seen any on her (there is so much engine grease on her that I think even the fleas left). My vet felt she could just be anemic due to the fact that she is so painfully undernourished. Of course I understand it can work both ways, but she is eating so gratefully...

She was shaking quite badly when she came but that seems to have calmed down considerably now.

Would you treat her as though FeLV or are there other things to be taken into account when possibly combined with FIV? She doesn't seem to have gingivitis or problems eating. The next thing I was going to ask the vet was whether she had any lesions in her mouth but I never got round to asking the question.

Will try and get photos in a few days, they are taken but am waiting for a new camera cable to upload them.

Oh, we had taken enough blood to do a full panel but I'm not sure if it ended up on the floor or if I will get the results in a day or two. We knew she might go into hypovolemic shock and she was a bit groggy afterwards but recovered fine.

Any tips, advice, or specific links that talk about treating FeLV/FIV together and especially in tackling the anemia would be very much appreciated.

Please understand that I'm not "trying to play vets", in Spain we are light years behind the US in terms of treating street cats, and I have taken in hundreds (literally) over the years who have all had veterinary treatment but this is a special or extreme case for us.

Thanks

Debbie

[critters]

Oh, I wouldn't worry about "playing vets;" I, for one, do it all the time!! Sending out for some help...

[Debbie-Spain]

Thanks Critters, you made me laugh...

Debbie

[TenHouseCats]

thank you SO much for not abandoning this dear, and when your vet heals (!), thanks him, too....

one of the best possible resources i can offer you is to join the FeLVTalk mailing list at http://www.felineleukemia.org -- it's full of folks, many of whom have been list members for many years, who live with and love FeLV positives, and have made sure they are up-to-date on CURRENT information. many of us have, or have had, positives living with negatives, have seen "positives" turn negative (as both the ELISSA and the IFA test for antigens, not antibodies), and have watched true positives--those who continually test positive, remain asymptomatic for many years.

the biggest problem with FeLVs has always been that it's really hard to do research when your sample population is routinely treated with euthanasia. just in the past couple of years is it coming to veterinary attention what has actually been in the literature for awhile: that FeLV is not that contagious, and that up to 70% of cats with healthy immune systems can be exposed, yet process the virus out of their bodies. the most exciting news is that it seems that there's a whole subclass of positives who may NEVER become symptomatic, and who are not contagious, either.

i'm with you on the fact that her hissy behavior is as likely a result of recent trauma as anything else. caging scaredy cats, ferals or strays, is actually an excellent way to give them a sense of control over their environment: they know the boundaries, they can develop a sense of safety. ideal forever, perhaps not--but a much better alternative for settling in and learning to trust than many alternatives.

as for sniffles and other sicknesses, one of the main things to remember with FeLVs is that positive cats are NOT sick all the time, and everything they get does not relate to their viral status. ie, FeLVs are not sick cats until and if the virus is activated--until that happens, they get sick, you treat them, they get better, just like normal cats. the only thing they're pretty sure about is that stress can activate the virus, so creating as stress-free an environment is the very best thing you can do.

MC

[Debbie-Spain]

Thanks so much MC. My gut instinct is that she is going to improve with just decent and accessible food and no motor oil but I will try and get hold of any supplements that might help her. My target is to get her testing negative in 6 months But if she doesn't but is looking like she feels better then I'll be pleased anyway, it's just that I really can't take any more in and if she tested negative she'd have a lot more chance of being adopted here.

I hope her environment is not too stressful. She is in a cage in a bedroom on her own at the moment, it's quite sunny but not hot, and there are trees outside the window and it is very quiet. I think the most stressful thing for her is every time I go in to change food, water, bedding, etc. But she is going to have to get used to that. I am hoping to win her over with nice food ) Her nose looks to have a bit of colour today, yesterday it was between transparent and grey.

I have been looking at the list you recommend and might summon up the courage to write later

I'm attaching a couple of photos so you can "meet" her, 1 is in mid-rescue (she was originally staggering along the line in the middle of the road and then ran under the car when I stopped the traffic), the other is once she was in the transport box. The second one is a bit blurred as the camera batteries were running down... but you can see how grey she is where she should be white... I worry a bit about when (hopefully) she starts grooming again and her licking all that motor oil off, not sure of a way around that if she doesn't become a little friendlier.

Thanks again!

Debbie

[critters]

mumpkees sent an email that I can't post in whole--computers have gone wonky. Basically that the oil's poisonous and should be washed off. I'll try to get the rest at some point...

[Debbie-Spain]

Thanks! I got the message. Not sure if she will stand up to being knocked out in order to clean her. Haven't seen her cleaning herself yet, still too weak I expect. She is really wild, I have to use gloves to change her food, water, bedding etc., just in case.
I expect we will have to operate on puppy next week at the hospital, so I'll see if I can take her in at the same time and have them sedate and clean her. Hopefully by then she will be stronger. If I see her start licking herself I'll have to take her sooner.

She has just been named Fabi, after Fabienne, a wonderful rescuer who came to our rescue on the roadside, the cat appeared just on the day I had emptied the car of cat boxes!

Her nose looks a bit less grey/transparent today and more of a pinky colour, as does inside of her mouth when she hisses at me, I'm really hoping the anemia is just through sheer malnutrition...

Thanks again

Debbie

[Bendy Kitty]

Have you tried giving her a pile of towels to burrow/hide in? If she does that, you might be able to rub some of the oil off.
I agree with giving her all the suppliments you can. We've had some FIV cats live for years and be fine and others seem fine then one day just crash and pass away. Can you get an IFA test in Spain? We actually have a cat here who is what is called "incongruent" for 2 years she has tested positive for FeLv on the Snap test that they do in clinic, but the IFA is always negative. Its supposed to be rare, but is an excellent example of a positive test NOT meaning she has the actual disease.
the FIV can make it tough for them to get over any sickness, we've seen that a lot with the ones here. If she really is positive for FeLv then it'll be even harder. I"m glad to hear her color is improving, that is a big plus!
Not to sound rude, but do you have Vanilla Extract in Spain? Somethign that works fairly well here is to put a drop of vanilla extract on your hands and it somehow makes you smell more friendly, or at least less threatening.
Do you have any of the pheramone sprays like Feliway there? We have used them with a lot of success in calming down feral cats.
Another thing to do, leave a piece of your dirty laundry in her room, a shirt or something, so she will start to get used to your scent.
Bribes always work well with ferals, they appreciate treats!
It is going to take a lot of patience, Fireball drew a lot of blood in her first days here, then suddenly 3 years later decided to be friendly. She is now a tripping hazard.

it's good to "see" you again, we think about you and your crew often.
headbonks, purrs & belliewaves from the bendymesiter

keep us updated!

[Debbie-Spain]

Bendy and Mom, thank you for your helpful words, I thought I had answered before, sorry I have been very busy.

Unfortunately little Fabi lost her fight for life last week. She became more and more "autistic", I was fairly sure she was deaf, and on what turned out to be her last day I was worried that she couldn't see so well. From the start she was either urinary incontinent or she wouldn't move to the litter box to pee, although she would to poop.

I couldn't find a vet willing to treat her (Spain is like that) and she remained untouchable but I managed to get a good system going to keep her clean etc. And I was getting help from a great guy I located who had worked in wild cat shelters in several countries, but unfortunately she died before we really made any great progress.

She had regained her strength and her colour. To be honest I thought she was gradually improving, and she was eating quite well, so it was a shock to find her dead one morning. She was often curled up asleep but in the mornings I would find her pawprints on top of her transport box, plenty of them, it looked as though she had got up there to dance, we even joked about her climbing up there and dancing every time I left the room...

I guess all I managed to do really was give her a quiet safe place for her last month. At least she wasn't really stressed and she didn't have to worry about struggling to find food. I imagine they were the easiest days of her short life. I just hope that now she's at the Bridge and no longer feeling any fear...

Thanks again for all your advice, sorry I couldn't save her...


Debbie

[Bendy Kitty]

mega purrrrrrs for you Debbie.
you definitely gave her the best month she ever had. safe, cared for, loved.
in the end, i think that is all that really matters.

it is hard to know what all was going on with her, I know it is hard to see a fur improving and then suddenly they are gone without warning.
now she is leaving little pawprints all over the bridge.

headbonks, purrrs & nose nuzzles to ya

bendy

[Debbie-Spain]

Thanks Bendy for understanding. It's so difficult when the animal you are trying to help perceives you as a threat. I felt terrible for causing her any extra stress. The wild cat man was really helpful, maybe if I had found him sooner we might have managed to better stabilise her, it's difficult too when the vets refuse to treat them, because I have many other animals that require regular treatment and so I can't just tell them to get lost... but what can you do if they are only willing to PTS? They treat my paralysed animals quite happily and even that is unusual here, I always feel like I am pushing them that bit further.

I'm calm because I think we did as much as we could, but just so sad that we lost her, I would have so much loved to hear her purr with contentment just once... still, I learned things with her that maybe will help with another one in the future.

Thanks for the image of her leaving little pawprints all over the bridge, it made me laugh and is a nice way to remember her,

hugs

Debbie