I am starting anew as Goober does not have heart disease, but cancer. In retrospect I wish it were heart disease as that may have been more treatable!
I have been asking for any advice on "paliative care" and in my own research have found a couple of good sites which I wanted to share:
http://www.vin.com/VINDBPub/SearchPB/Pr ... R00180.htm
http://www.petplace.com/cats/hepatic-ne ... page1.aspx
Thank you and I hope you will stay tuned as I WILL need a LOT of emotional support!
Karen
Goober's Cancer
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Bendy Kitty
- Founding Member
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Re: Goober's Cancer
I don't have much cancer experience, the ones we've delt with have been very fast growing aggressive tumors, but i'm here adn will definitely stay tuned.
you ahve a lot of support here!
*purrin hard for you and Goober*
bendy
you ahve a lot of support here!
*purrin hard for you and Goober*
bendy
In loving memory of Bendy Cute Kitty 9/15/00-4/23/12
Meet the cats at Bendy's Home http://www.alittletlc.com"
Meet the cats at Bendy's Home http://www.alittletlc.com"
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MissWhiskers
- Posts: 276
- Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:34 pm
- Location: Reston, VA
Re: Goober's Cancer
Thank you Bendy Kitty! Goober's still with me. He is still eating, using catbox, purring when I rub his chin and ears
I am giving him prednisone and using cyproheptadine. He has not given me "that look" that he doesn't want to go on - which I dread - so I am trying to be brave as long as he is.
I read what you wrote about the prednisone and one other person agreed she would probably be inclined to increase it, but I have been afraid to so far, but am starting to think about that again. If I am giving him a 5mg.tablet twice a day now, what would be a "conservative" increase to start with? He's about eight and a half pounds.
I'm not sure if you saw my post that the Doctors explained to me the reason Lasix would not help in his case? They said that the fluid build up is not within the tissue but within the abcominal cavity. If you or anyone has any tips for like the best foods or ANYTHING! I would APPRECIATE hearing them! Right now I am feeding him Science Diet LD (I think it stands for Liver Disease? - the Dr had shown me on the ultrasound that there are nodules on his liver and spleen - amd I believe the Dr did expect it to be pretty aggresive. How do you stand it??) I have also been adding milk thistle to his food.
Karen
I am giving him prednisone and using cyproheptadine. He has not given me "that look" that he doesn't want to go on - which I dread - so I am trying to be brave as long as he is.
I read what you wrote about the prednisone and one other person agreed she would probably be inclined to increase it, but I have been afraid to so far, but am starting to think about that again. If I am giving him a 5mg.tablet twice a day now, what would be a "conservative" increase to start with? He's about eight and a half pounds.
I'm not sure if you saw my post that the Doctors explained to me the reason Lasix would not help in his case? They said that the fluid build up is not within the tissue but within the abcominal cavity. If you or anyone has any tips for like the best foods or ANYTHING! I would APPRECIATE hearing them! Right now I am feeding him Science Diet LD (I think it stands for Liver Disease? - the Dr had shown me on the ultrasound that there are nodules on his liver and spleen - amd I believe the Dr did expect it to be pretty aggresive. How do you stand it??) I have also been adding milk thistle to his food.
Karen
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Bendy Kitty
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Re: Goober's Cancer
Milk thistle is excellent for liver problems, we've used it successfully with liver failure cats and a number of clincial trials have been done with it showing its effacacy in helping the liver recover.
i'd try giving him another half pill (2.5mg) in addition to one of the 5 mg doses, you sould see an effect in a few days (if not sooner).
i don' t know what we woudl do wihtout cats to worry about, it is just part of life around here and has been for so long. it IS hard, yes, but we know we're doing the best we can for them.
give him a smooch for us!
bendy
i'd try giving him another half pill (2.5mg) in addition to one of the 5 mg doses, you sould see an effect in a few days (if not sooner).
i don' t know what we woudl do wihtout cats to worry about, it is just part of life around here and has been for so long. it IS hard, yes, but we know we're doing the best we can for them.
give him a smooch for us!
bendy
In loving memory of Bendy Cute Kitty 9/15/00-4/23/12
Meet the cats at Bendy's Home http://www.alittletlc.com"
Meet the cats at Bendy's Home http://www.alittletlc.com"
Re: Goober's Cancer
Karen,
I am sorry about Goober's diagnosis. I'd ask again about lasix. I know your vet said it wouldn't help because of where the fluids are being coming from, but when I read 'limited' benefit, well that is some benefit. It is cheap & easy so why not give it a shot as long as your vet does not feel it would be harmful. Maybe if Goober gets some benefit from it, you could go a little longer without having the vet drain his ascites. He sounds like a real trooper. It is so hard & there is never enough time with them. My crew & I are thinking of you & sweet Goober.
jane
I am sorry about Goober's diagnosis. I'd ask again about lasix. I know your vet said it wouldn't help because of where the fluids are being coming from, but when I read 'limited' benefit, well that is some benefit. It is cheap & easy so why not give it a shot as long as your vet does not feel it would be harmful. Maybe if Goober gets some benefit from it, you could go a little longer without having the vet drain his ascites. He sounds like a real trooper. It is so hard & there is never enough time with them. My crew & I are thinking of you & sweet Goober.
jane
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MissWhiskers
- Posts: 276
- Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:34 pm
- Location: Reston, VA
Re: Goober's Cancer
Thank you Bendy and Jane,
I have 2 more questions for you all.
1. Is it Ok to drain the ascites fluid again? I don't know how many times you can or should do that??
2. I was reading about "The Use of Prednisone in Cat's Cancer Treatment" and it described`'different doses for different conditions":
Low doses are mainly used for inflammatory conditions, like allergies.
Moderate doses are used as appetite stimulants and antiemetic agents(prevents vomiting and nausea).
High doses are used during chemotherapy treatment for cancer and for treatment of immune and auto-immune related diseaes, like ulcerative skin diseases.
Keeping in mind that 1. I am already giving him Cyproheptadine as an appetite stimulant, 2. He is not on chemotherapy and 3. That the Dr who prescribed the Prednisone said to keep it at 5mg twice a day as increasing it can present "other" problems - it would seem that the Dr intentionally is keeping it at a low dose. Tell me if I'm wrong but I think the prednisone is partly to help him feel better but I think it is in part to help halt the seeping of fluid into the spaces between the organs? And if that's true than which range should i want to be in? Low, moderate or high?
I am sure the Dr is very smart and all but aren't there sometimes when they tell us things but maybe we know from our own experience that something else works well?
I hope I am expressing myself clearly - it is late and I am tired!
Thank you all!
Karen
PS Are there ORAL forms of Chemotherapy?
I have 2 more questions for you all.
1. Is it Ok to drain the ascites fluid again? I don't know how many times you can or should do that??
2. I was reading about "The Use of Prednisone in Cat's Cancer Treatment" and it described`'different doses for different conditions":
Low doses are mainly used for inflammatory conditions, like allergies.
Moderate doses are used as appetite stimulants and antiemetic agents(prevents vomiting and nausea).
High doses are used during chemotherapy treatment for cancer and for treatment of immune and auto-immune related diseaes, like ulcerative skin diseases.
Keeping in mind that 1. I am already giving him Cyproheptadine as an appetite stimulant, 2. He is not on chemotherapy and 3. That the Dr who prescribed the Prednisone said to keep it at 5mg twice a day as increasing it can present "other" problems - it would seem that the Dr intentionally is keeping it at a low dose. Tell me if I'm wrong but I think the prednisone is partly to help him feel better but I think it is in part to help halt the seeping of fluid into the spaces between the organs? And if that's true than which range should i want to be in? Low, moderate or high?
I am sure the Dr is very smart and all but aren't there sometimes when they tell us things but maybe we know from our own experience that something else works well?
I hope I am expressing myself clearly - it is late and I am tired!
Thank you all!
Karen
PS Are there ORAL forms of Chemotherapy?
Re: Goober's Cancer
Karen,
There are oral forms of chemo, but I do not know if those types would work for Goober's cancer. Different chemo regiments are used on on different types of cancer, you can discuss it with your vet. The pred is going to slow the cancer down & may 'shrink' what is there for awhile. 5mg twice a day for a kitty is a pretty high dose, in my opinion...I'd ask my vet if you do increase it, how long before the bad side effects will come. I think you can continue to have his abdomen drained (as long he is not too stressed by trip to kitty doc, remember it is quality of life that really counts)until it begins to fill to point he can't have anymore at home time or you risk him filling to point of severe discomfort or death when no vet is available.
I have treated 3 cats with chemo for lymphoma. It bought me a good year with one, the other 2 had no response & just slowly faded. The good thing is chemo in cats usually does not make them feel awful, like it does to alot of dogs. I would ask my vet again when you are not so in shock after hearing the terrible "C" word, I know you were not expecting that. I think now you could better 'listen' to the pros & cons of giving it try with your Goober.
Are his liver values elevated? I am asking because you have him on SD L/D, which I am not familar with for carbohydrate value.Cancer thrives on carbs. I would be feeding an all meat/fish diet (his kidney values should be good too, to handle the protein). Because he is on the pred I would feed cooked meat rather than raw (my preferance) because he is immune comprimised. Blue Bufflo brand has a line of Wilderness, that is very low carb. It comes in dry (probaly can as well) to leave out for nibbles when you are gone. There are probaly many other brands as well. Of course this is only if the likes it. Alot of cats like 'smelly' fish i.e. tuna, mackeral, ect. If he will eat it with a squished out a fish oil capsule on his food...be good as fish oil is great anti-inflamatory. Beware, probaly what he will eat one day he will not the next. I always a huge selection on hand. jane
There are oral forms of chemo, but I do not know if those types would work for Goober's cancer. Different chemo regiments are used on on different types of cancer, you can discuss it with your vet. The pred is going to slow the cancer down & may 'shrink' what is there for awhile. 5mg twice a day for a kitty is a pretty high dose, in my opinion...I'd ask my vet if you do increase it, how long before the bad side effects will come. I think you can continue to have his abdomen drained (as long he is not too stressed by trip to kitty doc, remember it is quality of life that really counts)until it begins to fill to point he can't have anymore at home time or you risk him filling to point of severe discomfort or death when no vet is available.
I have treated 3 cats with chemo for lymphoma. It bought me a good year with one, the other 2 had no response & just slowly faded. The good thing is chemo in cats usually does not make them feel awful, like it does to alot of dogs. I would ask my vet again when you are not so in shock after hearing the terrible "C" word, I know you were not expecting that. I think now you could better 'listen' to the pros & cons of giving it try with your Goober.
Are his liver values elevated? I am asking because you have him on SD L/D, which I am not familar with for carbohydrate value.Cancer thrives on carbs. I would be feeding an all meat/fish diet (his kidney values should be good too, to handle the protein). Because he is on the pred I would feed cooked meat rather than raw (my preferance) because he is immune comprimised. Blue Bufflo brand has a line of Wilderness, that is very low carb. It comes in dry (probaly can as well) to leave out for nibbles when you are gone. There are probaly many other brands as well. Of course this is only if the likes it. Alot of cats like 'smelly' fish i.e. tuna, mackeral, ect. If he will eat it with a squished out a fish oil capsule on his food...be good as fish oil is great anti-inflamatory. Beware, probaly what he will eat one day he will not the next. I always a huge selection on hand. jane
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MissWhiskers
- Posts: 276
- Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:34 pm
- Location: Reston, VA
Re: Goober's Cancer
I want to thank you all again for your advice and support. Janew, you are new to me and I wanted to say your comments and info were very helpful.
Unfortunately I am writing to say that Goober is gone. He was put to sleep on Tuesday 2/23/10. I took him to the vet to have them tap the fluid in his abdomen again, but the vet said the masses had gotten bigger and the fluid would come back faster, that he probably had 2 weeks at best and that I wasn't doing him any favors by trying to keep him alive for that time - that I should only do that if I needed that time to come to terms with it. But I had already had a little more than 3 weeks since learning that he had cancer and he was struggling so.
So Goober has gone on to hopefully a better place. I like to think he's with Whiskers and Omarr - my 2 other recent losses.
Karen
Unfortunately I am writing to say that Goober is gone. He was put to sleep on Tuesday 2/23/10. I took him to the vet to have them tap the fluid in his abdomen again, but the vet said the masses had gotten bigger and the fluid would come back faster, that he probably had 2 weeks at best and that I wasn't doing him any favors by trying to keep him alive for that time - that I should only do that if I needed that time to come to terms with it. But I had already had a little more than 3 weeks since learning that he had cancer and he was struggling so.
So Goober has gone on to hopefully a better place. I like to think he's with Whiskers and Omarr - my 2 other recent losses.
Karen
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MissWhiskers
- Posts: 276
- Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:34 pm
- Location: Reston, VA
Re: Goober's Cancer
I am trying to post a photo of Goober. I hope it works.
Karen
Thats Goober after they did the Thoracocentesis on Feb 1st.
Thank you all for listening,
Karen
Karen
Thats Goober after they did the Thoracocentesis on Feb 1st.
Thank you all for listening,
Karen
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Bendy Kitty
- Founding Member
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Re: Goober's Cancer
many purrrrrs for you, Karen.
Goober had a life of love and that is the best any can ask for.
I am sorry he is gone. I know it hurts horribly even tho it is the kindest thing to do.
He was a beautiful boy.
bendy
Goober had a life of love and that is the best any can ask for.
I am sorry he is gone. I know it hurts horribly even tho it is the kindest thing to do.
He was a beautiful boy.
bendy
In loving memory of Bendy Cute Kitty 9/15/00-4/23/12
Meet the cats at Bendy's Home http://www.alittletlc.com"
Meet the cats at Bendy's Home http://www.alittletlc.com"
Re: Goober's Cancer
Karen:
I am very sorry about Goober. You made the right decision though and he could not have asked for a better life with you. Take care. Diana
I am very sorry about Goober. You made the right decision though and he could not have asked for a better life with you. Take care. Diana
Re: Goober's Cancer
Karen,
I am so very sorry for you. I hope Goober is with his other family, Whiskers & Omarr waiting for you over the bridge. I have alot of wonderful furry family there too. He was a very handsome regal fellow who knew you loved him & lived a life full of all the best things...I know it won't help the missing him but you were a great mama & did the best for him. I pretty much figured chemo was a no go as advanced as he was. Cats are great at being asymtomatic till it is to late to try. I've been there too & it is not a pretty spot. So, please know it was nothing you missed. It just hurts so to lose them. Me & my furred family are thinking of you.
jane
I am so very sorry for you. I hope Goober is with his other family, Whiskers & Omarr waiting for you over the bridge. I have alot of wonderful furry family there too. He was a very handsome regal fellow who knew you loved him & lived a life full of all the best things...I know it won't help the missing him but you were a great mama & did the best for him. I pretty much figured chemo was a no go as advanced as he was. Cats are great at being asymtomatic till it is to late to try. I've been there too & it is not a pretty spot. So, please know it was nothing you missed. It just hurts so to lose them. Me & my furred family are thinking of you.
jane