Cats that bite - hard - in play...

[Sasha's Mom]

I have an eleven month old neutered male feral, Robbie, that I brought in when he was about 2 or 3 weeks old. He is extremely affectionate, loves to be held, cuddled, will stay perched and purring on my shoulder when I walk around, but he is and was a biter from day one. Initially, I thought he was teething, then I thought it was a reaction to adding another male to the house (disabled and intact), so I had Robbie neutered. It effectively ended the urine odor and spraying, but not the biting.

He will attack anything that moves (most notably my poor ankles, those of guests and my disabled cat), and nine times out of ten, will bite when you attempt to pet him.

I have tried everything to get him to stop and have run out of variations on the theme. He is 100% healthy and otherwise a very good natured cat, except I think his feral instincts outweigh everything else.

At one point, I took a Jalapeño pepper and rubbed it against his teeth - just a little - and that worked for about a week. Afterward, it actually seemed he started enjoying the taste and I decided it may not be the wisest solution to the problem.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. My biggest concern is trying to get the disabled cat (Sasha) and Robbie in the same room without having Sasha brought down by this little pip-squeak who is half Sasha's size. I don't like isolating either cat, but they have to take turns in the kennel and in various rooms of the apartment at this point to keep them separated.

Thank you!
Leah

[GabrielDeafBlindPupFamily]

I guess the loud hand-clap, stomping the foot and barking NO doesn't work?

Speakin of barking, try that! A low growl, deep from your throat. All animals understand a growl ?

[Sasha's Mom]

You guessed correctly, Gabriel! I've even gotten down on all fours, growled and hissed at him in such a way, my other cat scampers under the sofa, but Robbie just sits there looking at me with eyes saying, "You're nuts! You deserve what you get!"

I've growled like a dog, snorted like a pig, hissed like cat, clapped hands, stomped feet, rattled tin cans, sprayed water from a bottle, castrated him (I still use that as a threat and then remember I already tried that)... I yell, I plead, I beg; and he's gone flying a couple of times, as a knee-jerk reaction from me when he bites my ankles, and he comes right back at me. Doesn't listen for anything - never had such an incorrigible cat in my life! Right now, he's sitting in my lap, purring away like the sweetest kid on the block.

As mentioned previously, the only thing that ever worked was a hot pepper gently rubbed across his teeth - until he seemed to acquire a taste for them.

A bit of then and now photos.

[GabrielDeafBlindPupFamily]

He certainly grew up to be a GORGEOUS BOY! I have had to alpha roll vicious dogs. Takes care and skill and nerves of steel. Wear gloves. flip him over on his back and hld him there until he stops fighting. You might want to use a towel. Throw the towel over his back, quickly wrap it around him to confine his legs and paws, and lay him on his back. Mom cat grabs by the scruff. I had to do that with a deafblind pup who attacked people and dogs. Scruff and to the floor.

I have tried pepper, cleaner, everythin on the stuff my dogs chew. It's like I put steak sauce onthe furniture and the wall. I completely understand. Try lemon. No one likes lemon.

My dog will go after the cat and chase her when she is attacking my deafblind. All I have to say is GET THE CAT, and boy, that cat skeedaddles! Ambrr wouldn't hurt her, but she will bark and give chase. My cat is feral too, but I can pick her up and she never attacks me. I can't hold her, but she does let me pick her up.

AmbrrNanaDog getting eaten by that darn cat!

[critters]

Hmm. It takes a lot of time and consistent reprimands. When he goes after Sasha, I'd try a water pistol. When mine bite me hard, I simply say "NO!" and ignore them for awhile; babies are usually so attention-driven that they figure it out in a hurry!

[Sasha's Mom]

Thank you Gabriel. Yes, he is gorgeous and loves to have his picture taken! He has great sharp markings too, but such a little !!

I know that picture you posted well - that's how Robbie attacks Sasha. He goes for the back and the neck from underneath, which really scares me a bit. He'll jump up on my arm and hang on so tightly with his legs and paws (doesn't claw, thank heavens), while biting, I have to pry him off.

I forgot, holding him down by the scruff of the neck for a few seconds with a very firm, "NO," also worked for a while. Have to go back and try that again. Thank you for the refresher. I've tried so many things that were useless, I'm starting to forget the things that worked for a day or so. I tried a dab of salt the other day and he reacted the same way as with lemon - he ran away for two seconds and then came back, sitting at my feet licking his chops...

I have alpha rolled Robbie and we just wind up getting into a good healthy cat fight! There are times I feel sorry for him - he really loves to rough-house-play, I don't like encouraging it, but sometimes I just give in to satisfy his instincts. What baffles me is how Robbie loves to be picked up, cuddled and held. I could walk around with him hanging off my shoulder all day and he'll literally hang there like a rag doll and purr away. The instant I sit down, he's in my lap and I take turns with Sasha and Robbie sleeping with me at night.

I'm just thinking, maybe what I need is a dog that will take to Sasha and protect him from Robbie. I have also thought of introducing a female kitten into the mix as a playmate for Sasha and potential protectress. I had 3 females in NY (two are still together with a friend in NY, the third, passed at 15 years. The one who passed was an angel, never scratched, bit or upset my over 200 bonsai once in 15 years. She obeyed ever single command like a little soldier, but would not take to a Turkish Van I rescued. The Turkish Van was in such bad shape, it took over 3 years and $5k to get her healthy enough to have her spayed. I brought a kitten home for her and they became inseparable. They stuck together like Siamese twins. The older cat was my buddy, so we were all happy. Maybe a third cat would break the cycle. Have to sleep on that for a couple of days.

Thank you!!

[Sasha's Mom]

Hmm. It takes a lot of time and consistent reprimands. When he goes after Sasha, I'd try a water pistol. When mine bite me hard, I simply say "NO!" and ignore them for awhile; babies are usually so attention-driven that they figure it out in a hurry!

Mmm... I use a spray bottle from across the room when he jumps on Sasha's kennel when he's trying to rest, and THAT works. I still don't think he can figure out where the water is coming from and he does stay away for a while. I have to see if they sell water guns here - haven't seen the kids playing with them, but keeping one in my pocket and giving him a good squirt may just do the trick.

[GabrielDeafBlindPupFamily]

A very very long handled toy. Take a tennis ball, punch two holes in it, thread a small line through, tie to the end of a broom stick and you are SAFE and he can CHASE THAT BALL AND GIVE IT WHAT FOR! Also, my former spouse took a carpet tube, glued carpet fabric to it, it was just high enough to fit snugly against ceiling, and he put a couple of platforms on it all carpeted of course (he was a carpet layer) and our cat had the time of his life and we had to coax him down to play with the HUMANOIDS! A tall climbing tube like that would keep him entertained and bein on different levels is ultimately interestin to cats. Being up high, you run the risk of demonseed jumping on your head, but just walk around the tube when he's up high. Our cat, Budweiser (we found him in a campground and all we had was budweiser and doritos which this wild little kitten went after), LOVED to play tube socks. You ball one end up and fling it around by the tube end, and MAN that's high fun! When I gave birth, my husband thought it was a great idea to give me what I had wanted for years, cockateils. So we had to hang the cage from the ceiling. Every now and again, you would hear CRASH and the cage would be swinging wildly with two screeching 'teils and a cat peering at you from behind the couch, KNOWING he was going to catch it, eyes as big and black as coal. Boy I miss my Buddy! You need to find safe ways for him to play hard. There are new cat toys out now that just dazzle me, but my wild child doesn't play, she hunts the acre of woods. Nearly stepped on a dead rat a few days ago, in my bare feet. THAT CLOSE! Did step on half a dead skink (shhhh, don't tell Bendy)

[Bendy Kitty]

you're going to love my mom's way to deal with this.

bite the cat back.

yep, that is right, that is not a typo.

when a cat (or dog) here just won't listen, mom nips them on the ear.
that has, so far, always worked on the dog. soemtimes it makes a cat mad, tho, and then she bites their scruff and growls and holds them down like that for a good minute.

one 'interception' technique mom came up with, quite spur of the moment, was taking a clean cat litter pan scoop and mashing it over the offending cat's head. this prevents said cat from biting anything and effectively delivers the 'stop that' message. Sounds like you have quite a little brat there, he is going to take some serious retraining!

um, did i mention mom no longer feels teeth & claws on her arms & hands?

we did have a very serious aggression problem with Enki - resulting in blood spattered all over a wall when he got a hold of one cat he really didn't like. he ended up being put on Prozac, it has made him livable. he will grump at the other cats, but no more full fledged attacks. it was a last ditch effort, if it didn't work mom was going to look at finding him another home while he stayed in a pen.

bendy

[Sasha's Mom]

Bendy,

Your mom's idea is perfect - let's see if he can take what he dishes out!! I'll bite him back! Knowing Robbie, he'll probably think I'm playing, but certainly a nip on the ear is a great idea.

A few days ago, I was standing at the sink washing dishes, and wild-boy came up behind me out of nowhere and bit my heel. A few seconds later, I noticed a stream of blood. He latches on like a pit-bull, moves as fast as a rattlesnake and really has to be pried off. I know better than to pull back and will again say I am very thankful he doesn't scratch or use his claws.

The cat scooper is also a great idea, which brings me to another question: Does anyone in the world make cat muzzles? The only ones I've been able to find are made from nylon for grooming with blinders. I would like to find a leather muzzle, like the ones made for dogs, that I could put on him during times Sasha is scooting around. I am tired of separating them and tired of having to keep Sasha in the kennel when Robbie is in the living area. Sasha doesn't need the kennel in the warm weather - it's strictly for protecting him from Robbie. During the winter, the kennel is a must to keep Sasha warm and off the cold floors. Yes, I put Robbie in there too - they take turns and neither cat minds it.

[Sasha's Mom]

Robbie has his favorite perch on top of the kitchen cabinets. We have nice high ceilings and yes, one day he jumped from up there (there used to be a small table under the wall hanging with the dish), but it scared the dickens out of him as he crashed into a crystal candy dish on the way down and the shattering glass sounds (not to mention my bellowing screams that accompanied the crash) had him hiding for quite some time. I'm very glad sounds don't travel through this building with my yelling!

Tennis ball on the end of a stick - wonderful! I also like the play-tube-sock idea. Maybe he'll acclimate to tug-o-wars like a dog. Had another cat who loved that. All excellent suggestions. I am quite handy, but I don't think I would attempt to build my own cat perch - just don't think I could make it stable enough.

You reminded me of my Zachariah (a wonderful cat I had over 30 years ago), with Buddy - Zach's first gift to me was a squirrel's tail dropped at my feet. I shrieked (didn't know what it was at first) and he was so proud of himself - I'll never forget that look.

"Demonseed", eh? I think I'm going to add that to Robbie's name - even sounds good - Robbie Demonseed!!!!

[critters]

Demonseed!! When Domino was that age he thought his name was Domi-nono or D*****. He FINALLY outgrew it, now we have the little red-headed Demonseed. Cheddar has Ace and Koi to bite him, and they LIKE it. I think you're onto something with finding another demonseed to bite him. Ace and Koi are grown, but another bitey boy about the same age would probably be the surest bet. If he could chase and bite somebody who wanted to it'd probably make him a lot more amenable to leaving everybody else alone!

[Sasha's Mom]

Well......., gee, Bendy, I bit him back and he bit me back faster than I could move away from him!! He got me on the upper lip!!! Don't think I'll try that one again!

HOWEVER!!! I was able to procure a small water pistol that has a nice sharp stream and Robbie is getting a little tired of walking around wet all day, I think. Now, all I have to do is raise it and he leaves Sasha alone. The only drawback, when I do use it, my aim isn't the best and I wind up hitting poor Sasha as well. Robbie runs in one direction, Sasha scoots away in another, looking forlorn and helpless and wondering with the devil he did.

I think a few more days of getting shot at, may at least get him to stop attacking Sasha. I'll worry about straightening him out with biting Mum later.

By the way, I asked above, but maybe it was missed. Is there such a thing as a leather or soft plastic cat muzzle other than the nylon ones used for grooming? Even if I made holes for the eyes, he would claw it off in a few minutes.

[critters]

Your story!!

I don't know of any cat muzzles except the full-face ones.

[GabrielDeafBlindPupFamily]

Nor do I but I would bet the farm that many vets have them, you should ask around! I take that back. They are all head muzzles.

Here's Amazon's, not what you had in mind:



Vet advice on cat muzzle which isn't very helpful for your situatin, again, geared toward hospital stays:

http://www.petplace.com/cats/cat-muzzle ... page1.aspx

The problem is with the small size of their heads and lack of "muzzle" it almost has to go over the entire face.





Following the muzzle line of thinking, an e-collar would be an excellent substitute. Take it off several times a day for him to eat and drink, but the 'cushion' 'bumper' aspect would keep his mouth from hitting your leg.

I would get a bigger one than this because he could still take a chomp out of your leg:



He'd be so busy trying to get the thing off, he would spend no time at all aggravating you!