Bizarre sibling rivalry...

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Sasha's Mom
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Bizarre sibling rivalry...

Post by Sasha's Mom »

Hello everyone,

First, let me apologize for posting here, but I trust this site more than any other and have always felt very comfortable here, knowing I'll get straight answers without the BS. :)

Some of you may recall that after Sasha passed, I adopted two female siblings that were about 3 months at the time. They were the most lovable kittens I had ever owned and did everything together with nary a raised hair.

About 3 weeks ago, going about my daily AM wake-up routine, we had a flurry of ants in the kitchen (lots of construction in the area + Spring) and I stomped them out. Then, I opened the verticals on the sliding glass doors and both cats flipped out, completely out of the blue. Never in my life have I seen two cats so viciously attack each other and I never before heard the angry sounds that were coming out of them. Their pupils dilated like saucers and I managed to shoo one of them into another room to separate them. They were hissing and growling at me as well and with those bug eyes, I didn't dare touch them.

One of them released bowel and bladder in the kitchen and because of the fury in their movements, it was all over the place. I did a quick clean up and decided to let them relax, while I had my coffee and figured out what to do.

I finally crated one of them and let the other roam free. Went out and bought the Feliway diffuser immediately and waited 3 days before seeing how they would react together again. All went well for about 6 hours and then, at 2:30 AM, I was awakened to the same vicious fighting. Since then, I've been switching them in the crate all day long. An hour or two in and then out. They seem fine as long as one is crated and even if I hold one of them and bring them near each other, they start licking each other's face with no sign of stress.

Today was a real winner... I brought clothing out of storage that was in those vacuum bags, which had not been unpacked for over 2 years since Bulgaria, where I had Sasha and Robbie (Demon-seed). All #### broke lose again, this time just with the hissing and growling since one was crated. The clothes smelled as fresh as the day I put them in, but likely all the scents from Sasha and Robbie (2 intact males) also escaped. I do need to add the girls (Phaedra and Zaharina) have not been spayed yet, but hopefully will have Phaedra (the smaller/hyper one) spayed within the week. I'm a little uncertain about putting Zaharina (the very passive one) under, because she seems to have either asthma or bronchitis. Every time she runs around playing, she has an attack.

Now for the real clincher: I have often thought I smelled male cat urine in the house, but that's impossible. I thought it may be coming from outside, but since I'm on the second floor and have never seen or heard a cat near the door, couldn't for the life of me figure it out. Then it hit me like a ton of bricks... the downstairs neighbors are smoking pot, which can ironically smell like male cat urine. Now, I am wondering if that is what set them off in the first place.

I have several theories:

1) They need to be spayed. (Never had a problem with other intact females before, but this is what my vet believes is the problem).
2) From some research I learned that ant pheromones have been known to have an effect on cats similar to catnip or it can make them "act out." I have over 50 Combat Max ant traps throughout, so the problem has subsided almost completely.
3) Because of the ant problem, I am not leaving their food out for free-feeding and they may not be getting enough to eat. I know for a fact that a hungry cat can be a nasty cat.
4) It's the smoke coming from downstairs.
5) All of the above or something I haven't thought of yet.

I know many of the regulars here have had behavioural problems, so I am hoping someone can offer some suggestions.

Thank you!
Leah
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CarolC
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Re: Bizarre sibling rivalry...

Post by CarolC »

I'm not sure what's causing it either. The trick with ants is to set the food bowl in a shallow pan of water. Also, there are dry foods that attract ants and other brands that do not. I seem to remember plain Purina cat food in the royal blue bag is one that ants are not attracted to, but it's been a while so I haven't tried it lately.

Also, wiping the counters down with tincture of green soap (used to be able to get it at Walgreens) kept ants off the counter.

I had a situation with one kitty that was very similar, but it may not apply to your cats at all. For some reason, if she got a flea, I don't know if she was super allergic or what, but she would turn into a different cat. She would seem to not recognize the other cats, stay hunched up or become extremely aggressive, a hissing, spitting, ballistic cat. Here pupils were dilated as you described. Somehow I learned to take her for flea baths at the vet when this happened, and she was back to herself. Don't ask me, all I know is it worked. In the case of your cats, possibly just one is wigging out and the other is reacting?
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Sasha's Mom
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Re: Bizarre sibling rivalry...

Post by Sasha's Mom »

Hi Carol,

Thank you so much. You're giving me good ideas.

The ants are pretty much under control, so I shall try the shallow pan of water trick.

I used vinegar to wipe everything down, then switched to Formula 409 as it did a much better job in removing the scent trails. Will also look into the tincture of green soap. First I've heard of it. Thanks.

You know, you may have something with the fleas. Will check for ear mites as well. Either could freak them out. Haven't noticed any, but I have two applications and will apply to both to see if that may be the reason. I may try giving Zaharina a bath here, Phaedra would rip my head off, but I think I can easily manage the other. Plain water will at least make fleas jump if there are any. That may give a clue.

At first, Phaedra started the hunch/hiss/dilate routine which triggered both of them, but now it's Zaharina. They were like the Bobbsey Twins since I've had them and mirrored each other in many situations. They look like identical twins and I still have to stop twice to see which is which. I'm not sure if this situation is more stressful for them or for me. I have to be so careful when they are loose in there respective rooms that one doesn't sneak into the other's turf. I switch everything constantly, even which one gets to sleep with me at night. Zaharina doesn't do well in the crate, whereas Phaedra doesn't seem to mind and will walk in voluntarily.

Leah
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CarolC
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Re: Bizarre sibling rivalry...

Post by CarolC »

I'll be interested to know how it turns out.
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Sasha's Mom
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Re: Bizarre sibling rivalry...

Post by Sasha's Mom »

This is entirely bizarre. It is definitely coming from the smoke downstairs.

This morning, both were absolutely fine. Zaharina was with me in the living room and Phaedra in the kitchen. I went into the kitchen and Phaedra started hissing and growling at me. Sure enough, there was the smell of pot from downstairs permeating the kitchen and bathroom.

Now the pieces are falling into place: because of Superstorm Sandy, the son (whose bedroom is below my kitchen) only returned about a month ago, just about the same time the two of them started acting out. This should be fun. How do I tell the 19 year old landlady's son to stop his recreational activities, when his mother does the same? :(
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critters
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Re: Bizarre sibling rivalry...

Post by critters »

Call me naive, but I always wondered what pot smells like. Now that I know, I can't believe people willingly use the stuff... :? :shock: :oops:
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Re: Bizarre sibling rivalry...

Post by Sasha's Mom »

Naive can be good. :)

I've been smelling "male cat urine" since I moved in last year and only dawned on me when it mysteriously came back when the son moved back in.
Normally, I've been reading it calms cats down (if in the same room), but since we're getting only the residual "aroma" up here, it smells like a male cat, (which, if you've never had the honor of a whiff of skunk, is a lighter version of skunk)! :D
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critters
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Re: Bizarre sibling rivalry...

Post by critters »

I've had the honor of male cat pee, and, yes, I'd absolutely agree it's 1 step shy of skunk!! :lol:
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CarolC
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Re: Bizarre sibling rivalry...

Post by CarolC »

You might try googling how to get rid of the smoke. I did a search

Code: Select all

air smell remove "marijuana smoke" 
and got a bunch of results. Here's one idea where they say an ionizer works.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 824AAXYxea
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Sasha's Mom
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Re: Bizarre sibling rivalry...

Post by Sasha's Mom »

Hi,

Well, I had Phaedra spayed on Wednesday and she has assuredly calmed down and after Zaharina hissed, spat and growled at me from the "aromas" of the clinic, she's somewhat better, but both are still growling and hissing. I asked the clinic if they would spay Zaharina with the respiratory problem and they won't take the chance. Will wait until Phaedra's recovered and then go to my vet with Zaharina.

It's going to be separation for the long haul it seems. Crate, room isolation, etc... It is nice to have Phaedra back purring in my lap again, instead of watching her suffer in heat. It doesn't even seem as if Zaharina has gone into heat yet or her symptoms are so mild, it's not noticeable.

Thank you for the ionizer link, but I gently spoke with my landlady (giggles and many apologies included) and it seems her son changed his smoking location, so that's one problem eliminated! :)

Not the best photo (really hard to get good shots of black cats!), but they were like Siamese twins before they flipped. Another friend said she had the same problem with siblings who had been together for 3 years and one day it all went *poof*. She said it took almost a year of cajoling to get them back to normal, but they never fought again once they kissed and made up.

By the way, after positioning about 75 Combat Max ant traps around the house, I've been able to let dry food stay out overnight and only see a stray ant near the door every now and then, so that's two problems down!! :thankyou:
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The Way We Were! Hope to be back to this soon... :)
The Way We Were! Hope to be back to this soon... :)
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BendyMom
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Re: Bizarre sibling rivalry...

Post by BendyMom »

glad things have worked out.
spaying can make a huge difference, it varies widely from cat to cat. some are more horomonal than others.
about the asthma. I would work on getting that under control first. I have had, and do have, assorted asthma cats here. Soem only need antihistamines treatment (chlortab is great stuff and cheap) some need prednisone, some need an occasional inhaler. only had to take one in for the oxygen tent treatment. an air purifier like the ionizer can help tons. nebulizing can also be extremely helpful for bad attacks. When you have the asthma under control, i'd see about spaying her. I hope they can learn to get along again! One trick I often hear recommended, although I haven't personnaly tried it, is getting vanilla extract and putting a drop on each of their heads. One thing I have used with very good effect are the calming collars. I have one girl here who can be a huge bully and stresses out everyone else, I put a calming collar on her and the behavior disappears. It is easier than medicating every day, which is another option. i save that option for when the collar doesn't work.

that is a great pict!!!!
http://www.alittletlc.com

Image

Bendy Kitty
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Sasha's Mom
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Re: Bizarre sibling rivalry...

Post by Sasha's Mom »

It is soooooo nice to have Phaedra "back"! I was ready to throw her out a window! :D

As for Zaharina, yes, it's going to take some testing to see what is causing the respiratory problem. It could be many different things, so not going to try anything until she's thoroughly examined. I am so hesitant to use any medications after Sasha's ordeal, when more than likely giving him nothing but fluids would have prolonged his life... anyway...if wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

I have been using the Comfort Zone with Feliway diffuser to no avail whatsoever, but you piqued my interest with the calming collar. Any particular brand you can suggest? The Feliway diffuser does not work at all (over 30 days now), so that's a lost cause.

Thanks!
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Phaedra calm and relaxed!
Phaedra calm and relaxed!
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BendyMom
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Re: Bizarre sibling rivalry...

Post by BendyMom »

my asthma guys do get a lot of relief from pred and chlortab, neither of which are expensive. chlortab is just plain ol chloripheneramine, you buy at your local pharmacy, 4 mg tablets. half tab for a 10lb cat up to 2x day just make sure it is ONLY the chlor stuff and does not have anything else in it. many sinus meds have tylenol in them. or other things. i've even found it at the dollar tree sometmes
i have head zyrtec works but i do not konw the dosage.

I use Sentry brand for the calming collars. it is teh Pheramone collar - not the herbal collar, which makes them smell nice but does little else.
here, i found a link, in fact since they are on sale i think i'll order some.
http://www.petmountain.com/product/anxi ... MgodPiIAag


sorry the diffuser didn't work! I have had situations wehre that wasn't the answer but I have also had a lot of success with it so it was worth giving a shot.

you take fantastic picts of black cats!
http://www.alittletlc.com

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Bendy Kitty
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i am not the same without you.
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Sasha's Mom
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Re: Bizarre sibling rivalry...

Post by Sasha's Mom »

The air quality has been pretty nasty this last week, with little relief in sight. Still afraid to give her any meds without the vet seeing her first, but will offer your suggestions to the vet. Thank you. :)

Well, I think I solved the fighting problem...
I was joking with one of my friends that I would crate the two of them together if they didn't stop and yesterday, got so angry with both of them, scruffed them with loud hissing and growls, put them BOTH in the crate, slammed the living room door and proceeded to leave the house for three hours! :twisted:

When I came home, there were pathetic little "Mommy" cries coming from the crate and both were looking at me as if, well, as if they'd lost their mommy!
I let them out and for the last 24 hours a couple hisses, but a "show" of the water bottle (don't even need to use it anymore) sends both scurrying under the coffee table - together. :)

It actually makes sense to crate them. They have no where to run and unless they were rabid or had a few loose screws, they would kill each other in such close proximity and I'm assuming the crate put things in perspective for them. I was almost afraid to open the door when I came home and took a chance, but I was at the end of my rope. Now, let's just hope this holds.

Ordered a couple of the Sentry collars, just in case. :thankyou:
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Sasha's Mom
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Re: Bizarre sibling rivalry...

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:party: :newyear: :elephant: :hearts: :chicken: :cheerleader: :bounce: :wow: :banana: :dancing: :chick: :cheer: :snoopy: :thankyou:
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Is mommy happy or what?!
Is mommy happy or what?!
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