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Walking to paralyzed in 24 hours. Advice please.

Neurological Disorders Resources. Treatment and care for pets having pain or trouble walking or standing due to spinal injuries or neurological disorders like IVDD, FCE and DM.
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CarolC
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Re: Walking to paralyzed in 24 hours. Advice please.

Post by CarolC » Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:16 pm

Sorry for the double post but I thought of something else. This may not apply to you at all. I have an issue with my one paralyzed dog, who is smaller but I have a back problem. She is a little high strung and sometimes when I bend over her to pick her up, she will Yipe! It's super loud and practically sends me through the roof. I didn't even do anything, but she seems to think I might. I finally decided maybe it had something to do with me, because with my back problem I am always being careful and tense up and feel tense when I go to lift her because I'm afraid I'm going to hurt my back, and I wonder if she somehow reads that in my...I don't know...stress hormones or something? I've found I have to happy talk her and telegraph to her that I am not stressed, and that works, but frankly she has me even more tense because I worry she's going to Yipe! again.

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Re: Walking to paralyzed in 24 hours. Advice please.

Post by my2whitedogs » Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:23 pm

Honestly I was thinking the same. The vet is supposed to call me back. He is very sweet and loving if i am just laying down with him. No aggression at all. I am cautious now when I put the diapers on but he hasnt gotten mad about that yet. But he also hasnt eaten much. A few bites of chicken and a Buddy biscuit (kind of like a milkbone) today. Yesterday he ate a small amount of food when we got back from the vet. Today I tried shredded chicken, rice, some steamed veggies, yogurt, and a ground beef/pumpkin mixture and he wont touch it.

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Re: Walking to paralyzed in 24 hours. Advice please.

Post by CarolC » Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:24 pm

my2whitedogs wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:23 pm
But he also hasnt eaten much. A few bites of chicken and a Buddy biscuit (kind of like a milkbone) today.
There is something about biscuits/Milk Bones when dogs are recovering or have no appetite. I wonder if to them it is "comfort food". At least they are easy to digest. I don't see any harm in a few extra biscuits if that's what they want. Sometimes you're just grateful they'll eat anything.
https://handicappedpet.net/helppets/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3936&p=19772#p19771 wrote: She still would not eat this morning, so I force-fed her some of her regular food and she willingly ate a few dog biscuits (which she only did sporadically since her hunger strike began. The vet called me this morning and told me to continue with the baby food and try mixing it with rice and hamburger. She wasn’t interested in the baby food today and I had to force-feed to her. Again, she ate a few biscuits.
https://handicappedpet.net/helppets/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=20821&p=104971#p104971 wrote: She has not eaten since Monday morning, aside from a few milk bones (also concerned about this but understand that with the pain and medication she could just not have an appetite
https://handicappedpet.net/helppets/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3936&p=19772#p19772 wrote: It's interesting what you said about the dog biscuits. When I first got my dog (she was discovered injured behind where I work) she had surgery and I brought her home and she would not eat. We had a terrible time. At one point I ended up standing in the aisle at PetsMart in tears because we had tried everything. However, one thing she *would* eat was Milk Bones.

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Re: Walking to paralyzed in 24 hours. Advice please.

Post by my2whitedogs » Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:13 pm

So, I called the vet about the pain on Wednesday, and they decided to stop the tramadol and switch him to hydromorphone. He still reacts aggressively even with that when I try to help lift him or express him. I sat on my living room floor and cried yesterday, I questioned my decisions and doubted myself. However, In the last 24 hrs we have had some success, he finally started eating a decent amount of chicken and rice with yogurt and fermented fish broth in it. I've been using a towel to sling move him instead of the harness, he tolerates it better but still gets snappy (thank goodness for the muzzle). I think part of the reaction is fear, I also think he has some pain around his groin muscle area because he quivers a little when I move near there to express. He won't let me carry him downstairs at all, I'm pretty nervous about getting him in the car tomorrow. With all this going on I just realized tonight that he hasn't pooped since monday. On Monday he went himself in the yard while I held him up with the harness, now he won't tolerate that, do you think I should try stimulating him?

Tomorrow we have our therapy consulation and tomorrow night both dogs and I are going to meet our (hopefully) new vet.

Its strange to hope your dog poops in the house in the middle of the night, but I really hope he does.

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Re: Walking to paralyzed in 24 hours. Advice please.

Post by CarolC » Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:13 am

my2whitedogs wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:13 pm
So, I called the vet about the pain on Wednesday, and they decided to stop the tramadol and switch him to hydromorphone. He still reacts aggressively even with that when I try to help lift him or express him.

I still wonder if Valium would help. I have no experience with hydromorphone, but it seems like if he's already on a pain med like hydromorphone or tramadol, he might be acting out of fear or stress more than pain. I don't know, just thinking out loud. Valium did wonders for my high-strung dog when she was having a neck problem. Even with all the pain meds she could not relax and get comfortable until they added that.

I sat on my living room floor and cried yesterday, I questioned my decisions and doubted myself. However, In the last 24 hrs we have had some success, he finally started eating a decent amount of chicken and rice with yogurt and fermented fish broth in it. I've been using a towel to sling move him instead of the harness, he tolerates it better but still gets snappy (thank goodness for the muzzle). I think part of the reaction is fear, I also think he has some pain around his groin muscle area because he quivers a little when I move near there to express. He won't let me carry him downstairs at all, I'm pretty nervous about getting him in the car tomorrow. I don't know what to suggest. My dog was big but we were on the ground floor. Will it be possible for your partner and you to both get him down the stairs together? At least there will be another person with you. Would it help any to put a blanket around him when you carry him? With all this going on I just realized tonight that he hasn't pooped since monday. On Monday he went himself in the yard while I held him up with the harness, now he won't tolerate that, do you think I should try stimulating him?

I'm glad he's eating. He wasn't eating much, but he finally started eating, so now maybe having some food in his system will get him going again. Maybe he hasn't been going because there wasn't much in his system. I don't know if I would try stimulating him again? It's great for a paralyzed dog, but he is not paralyzed and he snapped last time. I wouldn't try it without the muzzle. Possibly try the Q-tip method this time if you're going to do it, or just wait and see if he goes tomorrow. I'm afraid your last nerve is going to be fried if he keeps trying to nip you. Maybe the new vet could give you something for his constipation. I have no experience with hydromorphone, but this link does say it can cause constipation. Your dog is lucky you cook such good food for him. He doesn't know how lucky he is!

Tomorrow we have our therapy consulation and tomorrow night both dogs and I are going to meet our (hopefully) new vet.

That is great. The therapist may totally know what you are going through at this stage, including the carrying and pottying and appetite and all of it.

Its strange to hope your dog poops in the house in the middle of the night, but I really hope he does.

I hope so, too. :)

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Re: Walking to paralyzed in 24 hours. Advice please.

Post by CarolC » Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:17 am

Another double post but I thought of this late last night. Two things actually. Did they put him on an antibiotic for his bladder when you went 3 days ago? You were suspecting a UTI. It usually takes a few days to work, so he could perhaps still be tender around his bladder area, I'm not sure. Going by memory, it seems like you usually start to see results after about 3 days. It is possible that an individual dog might develop an infection that is not well treated by a common antibiotic (usually they give amoxicillin and it works) so if you are still seeing signs of what might be a UTI, they could collect a little urine and at least look at it under the microscope and see if they notice any germ activity. He hasn't been on the antibiotic long (if he was given one) so it may just be a case of giving it enough time to work.

The other thing to be aware of is that some dogs will develop kind of a pins and needles sensation (or at least that is the theory) when the nerves are recovering, sort of like when you sleep on your arm funny and it falls asleep and then starts to wake back up. Dogs will then lick or chew the area trying to get at the funny sensations. You have not mentioned him licking or chewing, so that is probably not what is going on, but it is something to be aware of. If he is still on the gabapentin, that is the medication used for that condition. It is a temporary phase during recovery, but it can really bug some dogs, and the 2 main areas that often get chewed are the feet or the male area (penis). I cannot think of an example where the dog developed the pins and needles while on gabapentin, usually they develop it first, start chewing, and then are put on the gabapentin. But I wanted you to know about it. I do not know what the dose of gabapentin is for chewing, and how it compares to the dose he is currently on.

Hope things go well for you guys today!

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Re: Walking to paralyzed in 24 hours. Advice please.

Post by my2whitedogs » Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:29 am

They did not give him anything for UTI, he did not have trouble be expressed at the vet, and didnt show signs of aggression there. As a tag team we've expressed him twice now. Once we get him started it shoots right out (all over... ALL OVER). One of us gently holds his head and tries to calm him and talk to him while the other (usually me) tries to express him slowly. He is fine with me touching and pressing until I get back near his groin area where his legs meet his body. But after we start and we got some pee out he relaxes a little and stops thrashing he let's me continue until we have a puddle. (We have been doing it with him laying down because he really does not like to be hoisted up at his back end).

No poop still. But he is eating better, and he can scoot himself, but I try not to let him. I will talk to the new vet today about UTI and this possibly being behavioral/fear. In general though we are starting to get the hang of it and he seems happy, unless I am going to take the other dog for a walk, then he whines and breaks my heart.

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Re: Walking to paralyzed in 24 hours. Advice please.

Post by CarolC » Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:37 pm

Ok, well, that sounds really good. Here is a tip from critters. :)
https://handicappedpet.net/helppets/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11211&p=56807#p56807 wrote:
I peed him into a baby diaper, kind of flopped it over his belly, because he was peeing like a fire hose at that point.

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Re: Walking to paralyzed in 24 hours. Advice please.

Post by my2whitedogs » Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:56 pm

Yes I tried to figure something out but I dont feel hos bladder yet so I have to watch to see when the stream starts. I will figure it out eventually. Thanks to your help I am getting more confident and caring for him is not necessarily easier, but becoming more routine.

We just got to our therapy consult, as I was lifting him out of the car and handing him to the vet tech, a long solid poop just started flowing out of him. I was so happy about it, the vet tech probably not. :yay:

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Re: Walking to paralyzed in 24 hours. Advice please.

Post by CarolC » Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:21 pm

:hysterical: They should be used to it! And he gets points if it was formed. Nobody wants diarrhea in the pool, especially when other pets will be in there and the therapist may be working in the pool. They also do not want it in an underwater treadmill. I was told by my dog's physical therapist that it takes 2 staff several hours working together to disassemble and sanitize and reassemble the treadmill if a dog messes in it. And of course all their other appointments must be cancelled. She says if a dog is going to make a mess in the treadmill, she prays, "Please let it be formed."

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Re: Walking to paralyzed in 24 hours. Advice please.

Post by critters » Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:25 pm

my2whitedogs wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:56 pm
Yes I tried to figure something out but I dont feel hos bladder yet so I have to watch to see when the stream starts. I will figure it out eventually. Thanks to your help I am getting more confident and caring for him is not necessarily easier, but becoming more routine.

We just got to our therapy consult, as I was lifting him out of the car and handing him to the vet tech, a long solid poop just started flowing out of him. I was so happy about it, the vet tech probably not. :yay:
:hurray: :ecstatic: :snoopy: :newyear:

When I peed Buddy into the diaper it was close enough to catch the stream but not so close I couldn't see what was going on.

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Re: Walking to paralyzed in 24 hours. Advice please.

Post by my2whitedogs » Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:01 pm

Just a quick update, Bacio is starting to recover some mobility, we are going to start acupuncture tomorrow, and then after this week we will be doing both therapy and acupuncture once a week for at least 5 weeks. We have home exercises for him that he mostly tolerates. He is still very growly and snippy when his back end is lifted, but I think it is more a protection/fear thing now because after I have him lifted he settles down, he just really hates the initial pick up. He has been using his cart and last night I purchased one so that we won't have to rent further. we are on a 3 times a day schedule where he will pee, and at least once a day he had been going #2! I cannot believe the improvements he has made. He still knuckles over, so his feetsies are in stirrups in the cart, but it looks like he is swinging his legs. He won't walk on the grass or else I'd let him try to walk more by himself. Words really cannot express my graditude to both Carol and critters. I was so out of my league a week ago. Now he's trying to scoot himself around and it terrifies me. I am holding off on the drag bag for the time being but keeping it in my back pocket if acupuncture and therapy can't get him moving again. I don't know if it breaks forum rules, but if anyone has a doggie instagram I'd love to follow you guys.

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Re: Walking to paralyzed in 24 hours. Advice please.

Post by critters » Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:00 pm

Sounds great! You know, you can get splints to help prevent knuckling. Whatever you do, try not to let him knuckle so much he gets contractures. They're a mess to deal with.

No Instagram here.

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Re: Walking to paralyzed in 24 hours. Advice please.

Post by CarolC » Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:50 pm

No Instagram here either, but I'm glad to know he's doing so well. Scraped toes are part of recovery. A splint will hold the feet in a proper position like critters said, or here are some other options to consider. I think some of these can only be ordered by a vet or rehab specialist, but maybe you could ask the rehab about it.

Here is a lightweight device to prevent foot drop.

https://www.handicappedpets.com/no-knuc ... ning-sock/

Here is another brand (Therapaw hindlimb dorsi-flex assist), your vet has to order it, this product has been around a long time (near the bottom of page).

https://www.therapaw.com/shoppetproducts

One more

https://orthopets.com/product/orthopets-toe-up-device/

This one is newer and I haven't heard any reports on it and it seems awfully expensive.

https://alpha-mobility.com/shop/balto-d ... e-bt-pull/

Here is another idea.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13006

Best wishes with the continued recovery! Will be holding a good thought for you guys. :D

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Re: Walking to paralyzed in 24 hours. Advice please.

Post by my2whitedogs » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:36 pm

Man oh man, we thought we were getting out of the woods, and then today he peed blood. The ER I called said that he more than likely has a UTI and that of he is eating and drinking normally I can wait until monday to see the regular vet. I am still so very worried. He was acting so playful and rambunctious today, and then this.

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