Dolly

For those seeking advice on caring for incontinent pets and animals with kidney-related problems.
User avatar
critters
Founding Member
Posts: 14435
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2001 7:00 pm

Re: Dolly

Post by critters »

If you’re going to stat with homemade I’d suggest a veterinary nutritionist, especially with kidney disease & the rest. You may have to add vitamins or the like.

I never had kidney cats seize, but if the toxins build up it’s easy to see how a seizure might occur. Have you done levels recently?
User avatar
CarolC
Moderator
Posts: 13805
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 7:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Dolly

Post by CarolC »

Good morning...migraine last night. Wore sunglasses to hang out laundry this morning. 8-)

The homemade recipe was posted by a vet who is a Certified Vet Food Therapist. Not the same as a board certified nuritionist, but I looked up veterinary nutritionists (per your suggestion) here and I don't see one popping up in the search. Not surprising considering where we live. :roll:
https://chidog.com/pages/our-story wrote:Dr. Susan Bohrer, DVM, CVA, Certified Veterinary Food Therapist, has 15 years of experience in veterinary medicine
Dolly was last checked in February and that was when he told me she had kidney disease. I don't have a copy of her results. If I go back to him, all they'll do is recommend Science Diet. I didn't want to try it because I remembered trying it for both Merlin and Katie and they didn't like it. But that's wrong, I remember now. Merlin did eat it. Katie didn't.
CarolC wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:25 pm We put him on a special diet that was easier on his kidneys and his values improved, and he was maintained a couple more years that way [skip] For what it's worth, I do not recommend Science Diet canned k/d, it gave my dog soft stools, but the Science Diet k/d dry gave a decent stool.
So I called the vet and will go pick up a small bag of k/d and 1 can of k/d pate and one of k/d stew today.

I agree! I've never had seizures with kidney cats OR dogs. She doesn't have bad breath. Whatever the episodes were, they seem to have stopped. Here's why it's hard to tell what was going on. Signs of seizures can include

- loss of bowel and bladder control. Dolly already has that.

- falling down and flailing their legs. Dolly was doing that, but she's like a turtle on its back if she accidentally rolls over (which never happens normally). She only has one hind leg, held close to her abdomen, and it doesn't bend. Her front legs were sliding out from under her before I put her on the towel, and that has stopped now. The feet slipping might have been due to weakness from not eating her w/d, and she's eating better now. So if her front legs slipped and she accidentally rolled on her back, she would paddle her front legs frantically and be unable to turn herself over.

She was also straining her neck toward her right shoulder, and that could simply be struggling to roll over, or it could be some kind of contracture during a seizure (maybe?) I really thought her neck had locked up the first 2 times I saw it. Maybe it did secondarily as a result of straining to get herself turned over.

But she cries with her usual neck problem when it locks up in the forward position, and she's not crying with these.

So anyway, you might think, how can someone not tell if their dog is having a seizure? Well, that's why.

She is over it so quickly once she is turned over and her neck straightens, that is doesn't seem like a seizure OR a neck problem. You'd expect a post-seizure phase, or residual neck pain, and she's her normal sassy self 15-30 min later, like it never happened.

I used to live with a lady who had a schnauzer with seizures. His face was less stressed looking during them, than Dolly's when she has her episodes. She's miserable.

Anyway, the other food I got for her is Dave's low phosphorus. She won't eat the chicken at all, but showed some interest in the fish, but isn't eating much of it. You can go through a lot of bags and cases of dog food they won't eat at $40 each...
https://davespetfood.com/products/restricted-phosphorus-crumbles wrote:Dave's Pet Food Restricted Phosphorus Crumbles for Dogs was formulated by Board Certified Veterinarian Nutritionists as a cost-effective solution to managing kidney disease.
Dave's Tuna low phosphorus dog food.JPG
Dave's Chicken low phosphorus dog food.JPG
I just stumbled upon another low phosphorus brand. Dr. Harvey's. I tried to check if he is a veterinarian. He is not.
https://www.drharveys.com/pages/ask_dr_harvey wrote:Disclaimer: Dr. Harvey has been helping to educate pet parents for over 30 years. As always, there is no fee for his time and expertise. Please be advised that Dr. Harvey is not a veterinarian.
I've read several places kidney dogs can have different kinds of fruit. I have some and will try it, but I'm afraid we're going to have Disaster Dog. Her stools are soft already with the homemade. :shock: She really needs a certain diet with her incontinence, but most of all she just needs to eat more, so we're going to try it.
User avatar
CarolC
Moderator
Posts: 13805
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 7:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Dolly

Post by CarolC »

She's eating it!!!
Image
She likes k/d dry!
:ecstatic: :bounce:
I'll still make her the homemade maybe once a day just because she likes it. But I think she'll have better stools now. Whew!
:thankyou:
P.S. She didn't eat the fruit.
User avatar
critters
Founding Member
Posts: 14435
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2001 7:00 pm

Re: Dolly

Post by critters »

Meez's kidneys have improved some. The vet sent a link I looked at; I'll try to email it to you later. It said that kidney food can help with low potassium levels; I just put a bit of potassium in Meez's water once a week, so his is fine now. Glad she likes k/d; I know it's expensive, but it should save you a fair amount of trouble.
User avatar
CarolC
Moderator
Posts: 13805
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 7:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Dolly

Post by CarolC »

It was $51.99 for 8.5 lbs, but I got a $10 coupon, and she's little so she won't go through it very fast. I don't mind the cost if they eat it. It's when you pay $40 just to try something and find out they don't like it. They say (or used to say) you could return Science Diet to the vet and get your money back if your pet won't eat it. The brand I got from Chewy, you're just out $40 (x2). She won't touch the Dave's chicken and is ignoring the fish though she ate a little when I first gave it to her. I may see if Millie will finish that can for her. At least I can donate the canned to the shelter and maybe it will do some good. The kibble is going to be essentially wasted I'm afraid.

Please tell me about stirring potassium into water. :? I've done Tumil-K gel with cats and its no fun. I'm reading potassium is a bigger issue with cats than dogs. The kidneys actually improved? Well, woohoo!!! :yay:

Dolly's crate was not a mess this morning. She still wanted me to make her some homemade, so I gave her k/d and then made homemade, too. We're not spoiled or anything, oh no! :lol:
User avatar
critters
Founding Member
Posts: 14435
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2001 7:00 pm

Re: Dolly

Post by critters »

I could be precise with the dosing, but soaking the pill until it goes to pieces then dropping a crumb into the bowl seems to be working.

One shelter here will take even open bags & give them away, so it’s worth asking.
User avatar
critters
Founding Member
Posts: 14435
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2001 7:00 pm

Re: Dolly

Post by critters »

Oh, here’s the link, in case anybody else needs it. https://veterinarypartner.vin.com/defau ... id=4951452
User avatar
CarolC
Moderator
Posts: 13805
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 7:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Dolly

Post by CarolC »

Thank you. That's a really good article. I haven't finished it yet but got some good out of it already.

:thankyou:
User avatar
CarolC
Moderator
Posts: 13805
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 7:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Dolly

Post by CarolC »

Dolly has a vet appt in an hour. She had another seizure this morning. Got over it and had another one a couple of minutes later. She hadn't had breakfast yet, but when I brought her breakfast about 8am she was resting quietly and gave no indication she recognized the smell of food when I held her bowl near her to show her I was putting it in the corner. Like she was already a little out of it.

We're having a problem that when she's recovering, she moves around in her crate aimlessly and keeps getting her leg through the side. I'm going to need to change her to a playpen. Need to go to Walmart today and get one. For now I put a rolled pad along the edge.

EDIT TO ADD: Her blood sugar was fine, they couldn't get a urine specimen because she dribbles empty continuously, they're sending off a blood panel, results tomorrow or Friday, she got 120ml of fluids and a shot of something starting with an 'M' to prevent another one for a few hours. :sleepingdog: She said if it continues more than one every few months she might need phenobarbitol. I told her this was the 5th or 6th time since Oct. 18.

SECOND EDIT: The injection was midazolam.
User avatar
critters
Founding Member
Posts: 14435
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2001 7:00 pm

Re: Dolly

Post by critters »

That’s not good. 😞 Any idea why it’s happening? There are several meds they can use for critters with seizures these days, which is a good thing. I think I’d try to treat with that many seizures in such a short time.
User avatar
CarolC
Moderator
Posts: 13805
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 7:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Dolly

Post by CarolC »

Yes, I think we need to be treating them and not waiting for the next one. When she calls with lab results I'll ask for that. After the second one yesterday she didn't recover as quickly, she was still having after effects at 11 am when we went. The vet said there is medication that can be given as pills or put up the rear. I'd rather do up the rear because when this first started and I thought it was her neck problem, I couldn't get her to take pills like she used to. She used to take anything in a meatball even if her neck hurt. This time she wouldn't take it in dog food, cat food, American cheese slices I bought, or peanut butter. I'm not clear on whether the ones up the rear are only suppositories when she's having a seizure, or daily meds. Either way, I'm going to ask for something to try.

She's brighter this morning and looks like herself. She was dehydrated yesterday. I got up to go to the restroom at 2am and heard her awake and moving about. I changed her big towel and got her some food and she was hungry. She had food in her crate but I guess wasn't finding it. She's moving around but not as well as before. We're kind of on assisted feeding now because her front foot will slide out while she's trying to eat, even on the cotton towel.

She likes the Beechnut chicken best. It is different from Gerber. When you open the jar, it all comes out into the bowl, leaving a clean jar, unlike Gerber where the jar is coated with chicken after you try to empty it. I think the reason she likes it is, it is very easy to eat. That's what I gave her last night. She ate most of it and then started on her chicken and rice I made and ate part of that, but it is harder to lick up, being thicker.
User avatar
CarolC
Moderator
Posts: 13805
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 7:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Dolly

Post by CarolC »

OK, double post. Just got a call from the vet. Kidneys are not that bad at all, but liver was "not good news". Her liver values were bad. The vet doesn't know if it's a bacterial infection or something else like a tumor. She says the way to check would be referral for imaging and possible biopsy. I don't want to do that, she doesn't need anaesthesia at her age (16). The vet says they like to flush the system with IV fluids in these cases but they don't have 24 hour care to monitor cases at the clinic so she'd have to be be referred and admitted somewhere for that. I asked if sub-q would work and she said I could do 100 cc a day for 4 days. She gave her 120 yesterday. I have fluids in the cupboard fortunately so we'll start that this afternoon.

She is prescribing an antibiotic and a liver supplement I can pick up this afternoon. I asked about a seizure med. She said she's hoping the seizures are being caused by the liver problem and treating it will prevent them. I asked if I needed to change what she's eating and she said it was OK to continue giving whatever she'll eat. She said best case, it's an infection and she clears up and goes back to normal. Worst case could be a tumor or something (she didn't specify) and we're looking at months and quality of life.

She's pretty good right now. I just hope I can get her to take the antibiotic, and the liver pills are small. So glad about the kidneys.

EDIT TO ADD: The antibiotic is Zeniquin (marbofloxacin) once a day. The liver support tabs are chewable Denamarin and look flavored. Haven't tried them yet. They're supposed to be on an empty stomach. They contain SAM-e and milk thistle extract. Hard time getting her to take the antibiotic, she has uncanny pill radar when you try to hide it in food. Ended up using the pill popper. Didn't want to stress her neck but it's too important. At noon she was barking, first time since yesterday morning. I confirmed she can still see and track my finger. Just realized I won't be home to give her antibiotic on time when I have jury duty.

SECOND EDIT: Was unable to give fluids, got 15cc in and she wouldn't hold still, had to take her to the vet.
User avatar
critters
Founding Member
Posts: 14435
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2001 7:00 pm

Re: Dolly

Post by critters »

I’m no liver expert but I’ve never heard of fluids for liver.
User avatar
CarolC
Moderator
Posts: 13805
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 7:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Dolly

Post by CarolC »

Me either. I feel bad that I opened a bag of fluids and now won't be using it, when there's a nationwide fluid shortage after the hurricane affected the Baxter lab that produces them.

I was trying to administer the way I always do, with 2 syringes. I don't have a drip admin set with tubing anymore. Maybe if I went and bought an admin set at the vet tomorrow we could try it that way. My nerves are 100% fried after the epic fail today. Don't want to climb back on that horse. Feel like I need about 5 days to recover before trying again, but we don't have 5 days. It isn't worth making her hate me and I'm afraid she does now, after us being friends since 2009, because I never manhandled her or hurt her all these years, and now I did, and for nothing because it only got 15cc in before I gave up from too much struggle. She didn't react to the first stick, only when I began to press the plunger. I had them lukewarm so the temp should have been comfortable. I may have been pinching her skin with my left hand too tight while trying to keep her still. She's always been kind of highstrung. With an admin set all you have to do is get the needle in, then you have both hands free to restrain or hold the dog. The most important thing is to try to make it up to her I guess. I just feel so bad that she already didn't feel good and then I made things worse by stressing her (both of us). At least I didn't try to give them in her crate, so I hope she still feels safe and happy there.
User avatar
critters
Founding Member
Posts: 14435
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2001 7:00 pm

Re: Dolly

Post by critters »

The last time I looked (admittedly not recently) admin sets were non rx, but one was required for the water. Makes no sense to me but welcome to our world.

I know you’ve done all this before, but I really can’t guess what’s different now, aside from the obvious—Dolly.

Well, you know, it could be the pressure. With admin sets they’re usually gravity-fed while the syringe has to have the plunger pushed. 🤷
Post Reply