Hi all,
I am new to this group - I finally realized I need some support and help. I have a 7 year old Newfoundland - Samson. He had a sister Delilah who died 2 years ago from IMHD - an immune disorder. Samson had a reaction to a rabies shot at 5 months which first cause hearing, sight and balance problems and then epilepsy. He blew out both ACLs and had three TPLOs. About a year ago he had a stroke to his spinal cord. At first they thought it was DM but he tested negative for that. I've had him in physical therapy 3 different times (where he boarded). His right hind leg seems to have a mind of its own. It crosses under him, around him and causes him to fall. He has trouble getting up. His left leg is marginal but not nearly in the shape the right leg is in. I use a harness which we had especially made for him in Canada and its wonderful. But I'm beginning to believe that the answer is some sort of splint or brace to provide some stability for that leg. I desperately need some thoughts, referrals, experiences, etc. I've spent hours on line researching braces etc. It's mind numbing. I do not have a local vet. I can take him to North Carolina State Vet Hospital which is excellent but there is nothing they can tell me that I already don't know. Also, he has had two MRIs - he has enlarged ventricles in his brain which undoubtedly has caused pressure on several lobes which explains the hearing, sight and balance issues. He is a love and a trooper. I want to give him as much of a quality life as possible. Thanks in advance.
Sharon Kinsey
Follow Your Dream Farm
www.followyourdreamfarm.net
Hind leg weakness, partial paralysis
Re: Hind leg weakness, partial paralysis
Hi Sharon,
I have been reading your blog and it is wonderful. You have a soul sister in Canada. Lisa, one of our moderators sounds as though she is your twin separated at birth. She will probably have some good advice about your Samson too. There are splints, here, in our product area that you might want to take a look at. I am not the expert in this area, I wonder if a wheelchair might help Samson?
We have another member with a dog named Carl with some similar issues and she has done wonders for him. I will write to both of them and ask them to chime in. Your animals are so lucky to have you. I loved the pictures of your two dogs playing, they are hilarious.
And by the way...
I have been reading your blog and it is wonderful. You have a soul sister in Canada. Lisa, one of our moderators sounds as though she is your twin separated at birth. She will probably have some good advice about your Samson too. There are splints, here, in our product area that you might want to take a look at. I am not the expert in this area, I wonder if a wheelchair might help Samson?
We have another member with a dog named Carl with some similar issues and she has done wonders for him. I will write to both of them and ask them to chime in. Your animals are so lucky to have you. I loved the pictures of your two dogs playing, they are hilarious.
And by the way...
Christine... and Bailey, playing at the Bridge
?/1999 - 10/25/08
-
slshepherds
- Moderator
- Posts: 665
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 2:18 pm
Re: Hind leg weakness, partial paralysis
Hi Sharon
I'm Joanne and "crazy Carl" is my paralyzed Lab. I think this is a really small world as I am fairly certain I have met Samson before.
I was wondering ... Did rehab improve things and are you still working with Samson? I'm a firm believer in the benefits of rehab. Carl is paralyzed and will never walk, but rehab is helping him to be able to stand, which helps us both (me physically, Carl psychologically). I also wonder about a cart, be it for the long term or short. Carts, especially those with soft neoprene harnesses can dramatically improve hindlimb strength, mobility and quality of life. I had an old Lab mix who had arthritis and back problems who could use her hindlimbs but not enough to stand and walk. When she got a cart it literally turned the clock back years, allowing her to run and play again.
Joanne
I'm Joanne and "crazy Carl" is my paralyzed Lab. I think this is a really small world as I am fairly certain I have met Samson before.
I was wondering ... Did rehab improve things and are you still working with Samson? I'm a firm believer in the benefits of rehab. Carl is paralyzed and will never walk, but rehab is helping him to be able to stand, which helps us both (me physically, Carl psychologically). I also wonder about a cart, be it for the long term or short. Carts, especially those with soft neoprene harnesses can dramatically improve hindlimb strength, mobility and quality of life. I had an old Lab mix who had arthritis and back problems who could use her hindlimbs but not enough to stand and walk. When she got a cart it literally turned the clock back years, allowing her to run and play again.
Joanne
Joanne
Carl, Tiny, Freckles (paralyzed Lab, mix and Red Heeler)
Sam I Am (Lymphoma, Lab)
Eli, Aoibhe, Tesla (limb deformities, GSDs and Lab mix)
Mochridhe (storage disease, GSD)
http://www.straightlegshepherds.org
http://www.paralyzeddogs.org
Carl, Tiny, Freckles (paralyzed Lab, mix and Red Heeler)
Sam I Am (Lymphoma, Lab)
Eli, Aoibhe, Tesla (limb deformities, GSDs and Lab mix)
Mochridhe (storage disease, GSD)
http://www.straightlegshepherds.org
http://www.paralyzeddogs.org
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sharonkinsey2010
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:56 pm
Re: Hind leg weakness, partial paralysis
Christine,
Thank you for anything you can do.
Joanne,
Where do you think you've met Samson??? The probably with physical therapy is that there is nothing "local." It's an hour and a half drive to Durham NC. Samson does not travel well. He does not like change of scenery. Whenever I take him in the car I have to administer valium first (rectally) so he doesn't seizure. We really live in the boonies. Therapy does seem to help some, especially the underwater treadmill. But the biggest problem is getting him to just walk around because as his nerve damage seems to worsen he doesn't want to walk. He is not in pain. I've thought about a cart but Samson weighs about 150 pounds. I guess I'd have to do more research to understand how they work. It just seems that if I can provide some assistance with that darn right leg so he can place it properly....also he is having more and more difficulty with traction on his front paws. Anyone have ideas on that - booties of some kind? They seem kind of awkward. I may set up another appointment with neurology at NC just to get an updated eval - but in my heart I know at this point I just need to find the right mechanism to assist him. Thanks to all of you who have or will respond. I am heartbroken.
Thank you for anything you can do.
Joanne,
Where do you think you've met Samson??? The probably with physical therapy is that there is nothing "local." It's an hour and a half drive to Durham NC. Samson does not travel well. He does not like change of scenery. Whenever I take him in the car I have to administer valium first (rectally) so he doesn't seizure. We really live in the boonies. Therapy does seem to help some, especially the underwater treadmill. But the biggest problem is getting him to just walk around because as his nerve damage seems to worsen he doesn't want to walk. He is not in pain. I've thought about a cart but Samson weighs about 150 pounds. I guess I'd have to do more research to understand how they work. It just seems that if I can provide some assistance with that darn right leg so he can place it properly....also he is having more and more difficulty with traction on his front paws. Anyone have ideas on that - booties of some kind? They seem kind of awkward. I may set up another appointment with neurology at NC just to get an updated eval - but in my heart I know at this point I just need to find the right mechanism to assist him. Thanks to all of you who have or will respond. I am heartbroken.
Re: Hind leg weakness, partial paralysis
Bobbie can explain this better than I can, but there are 2 kinds of rear wheelchairs: fixed saddle and soft saddle. The fixed saddle cart has fixed rings for the legs to go through, and you lift the dog's hindquarters up and drop the feet through the rings. Eddie's Wheels makes a fixed ring wheelchair. K-9 Carts does, too. To see a good example of how the cart tips down so you don't have to lift the hind legs the full height, here is a picture:
http://www.k9-carts.com/K9-Carts-Produc ... l-cart.php
There are a number of brands with a soft neoprene saddle that is removeable. You put the saddle on the dog first (like britches) then fasten the saddle to the cart frame. You are not lifting the hindquarters off the ground, but you are still lifting and holding the dog up while you clip the saddle to the frame. Brands of soft saddle carts include Walkin' Wheels, Dewey's Wheels, and Doggon' Wheels.
I was once told that neoprene saddle carts do not work as well for giant breeds, but that was several years ago, I think you should check and don't take my word for it. I was also told that the giant breeds do not really like carts very well, and the person who told me was a cart manufacturer. I think if I had a dog that size and was looking at a soft saddle cart, I would want a firm guarantee it was going to hold up and not wear out quickly and not have to be adjusted all the time. One thing about the welded carts with a fixed saddle is they are very sturdy.
There is (or was) another cart that actually kneels or collapses to make it easier to put the pet in, and I would encourage to you check into it. The company is http://www.enablingpets.com. Rich used to make the collapsing cart, I do not still see it on his website so I don't know if he's still making it, but you might ask.
When it comes to lifting the dog, you can try to calculate what you are lifting. The average dog carries 60% of his weight on his front legs and 40% on his hind legs. For a 150 lb dog that is 90 lbs on the front feet and 60 lbs on the hind feet. 60 lbs is more than most people should be lifting every day, so I think you would need some kind of mechanical lift (like an engine hoist) if you are going to do it. I believe at Eddie's Wheels they have a real Hoyer lift because they are fitting heavy dogs for carts all the time and it is too hard on the staff to keep lifting them. The engine hoist idea is a poor man's version of the Hoyer lift. I think the hoist would work fine for getting your dog into a 2-wheel cart.
I will explain how we did it with my big dog (not as big as yours). I have a back door that is only 1 step down to the yard so we made a good ramp. I needed to be able to put my dog into the wheelchair while he was indoors because it was too hard to try to walk him out with a sling and then put him in the wheelchair. So I measured the back door and called 2 cart companies to find out if a cart for my big dog was going to fit through the back door if they made him one. We decided it would, so then I got him a cart. The way I put him in it was with an engine hoist. When we started with a 2-wheel cart, I used the engine hoist to simply hold him in a standing position while I got his feet through the cart rings. That worked great. Later when he needed a 4-wheel cart, I used the hoist to lift him off the ground and into the cart. Here is a picture of the engine hoist:
http://www.handicappedpets.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Engine_hoist_for_a_heavy_dog
The engine hoist works well, the only thing is it does take time to do it this way, it isn't something you can do really quickly. It is only going to work if you can get him in and out the back door, and if you have a yard or someplace he can walk once he is out the door. A giant breed dog is not going to be able to use the cart indoors really, he will get hung up on doorways and furniture.
You mentioned him needing traction for his front feet. I guess you mean indoors? We used indoor outdoor mats on our wood floors and those worked 100%. I never had ANY trouble with them. We used those 3' x 5' mats that are carpet in the middle with a black rubber border, like you see when you walk into a store. They did not slip around, they stayed put, and provided a good walking surface for my old dog. They usually come in charcoal or green, or if you are lucky you can find warm brown and pay more. The grey ones are about $18 at Home Depot.
http://www.k9-carts.com/K9-Carts-Produc ... l-cart.php
There are a number of brands with a soft neoprene saddle that is removeable. You put the saddle on the dog first (like britches) then fasten the saddle to the cart frame. You are not lifting the hindquarters off the ground, but you are still lifting and holding the dog up while you clip the saddle to the frame. Brands of soft saddle carts include Walkin' Wheels, Dewey's Wheels, and Doggon' Wheels.
I was once told that neoprene saddle carts do not work as well for giant breeds, but that was several years ago, I think you should check and don't take my word for it. I was also told that the giant breeds do not really like carts very well, and the person who told me was a cart manufacturer. I think if I had a dog that size and was looking at a soft saddle cart, I would want a firm guarantee it was going to hold up and not wear out quickly and not have to be adjusted all the time. One thing about the welded carts with a fixed saddle is they are very sturdy.
There is (or was) another cart that actually kneels or collapses to make it easier to put the pet in, and I would encourage to you check into it. The company is http://www.enablingpets.com. Rich used to make the collapsing cart, I do not still see it on his website so I don't know if he's still making it, but you might ask.
When it comes to lifting the dog, you can try to calculate what you are lifting. The average dog carries 60% of his weight on his front legs and 40% on his hind legs. For a 150 lb dog that is 90 lbs on the front feet and 60 lbs on the hind feet. 60 lbs is more than most people should be lifting every day, so I think you would need some kind of mechanical lift (like an engine hoist) if you are going to do it. I believe at Eddie's Wheels they have a real Hoyer lift because they are fitting heavy dogs for carts all the time and it is too hard on the staff to keep lifting them. The engine hoist idea is a poor man's version of the Hoyer lift. I think the hoist would work fine for getting your dog into a 2-wheel cart.
I will explain how we did it with my big dog (not as big as yours). I have a back door that is only 1 step down to the yard so we made a good ramp. I needed to be able to put my dog into the wheelchair while he was indoors because it was too hard to try to walk him out with a sling and then put him in the wheelchair. So I measured the back door and called 2 cart companies to find out if a cart for my big dog was going to fit through the back door if they made him one. We decided it would, so then I got him a cart. The way I put him in it was with an engine hoist. When we started with a 2-wheel cart, I used the engine hoist to simply hold him in a standing position while I got his feet through the cart rings. That worked great. Later when he needed a 4-wheel cart, I used the hoist to lift him off the ground and into the cart. Here is a picture of the engine hoist:
http://www.handicappedpets.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Engine_hoist_for_a_heavy_dog
The engine hoist works well, the only thing is it does take time to do it this way, it isn't something you can do really quickly. It is only going to work if you can get him in and out the back door, and if you have a yard or someplace he can walk once he is out the door. A giant breed dog is not going to be able to use the cart indoors really, he will get hung up on doorways and furniture.
You mentioned him needing traction for his front feet. I guess you mean indoors? We used indoor outdoor mats on our wood floors and those worked 100%. I never had ANY trouble with them. We used those 3' x 5' mats that are carpet in the middle with a black rubber border, like you see when you walk into a store. They did not slip around, they stayed put, and provided a good walking surface for my old dog. They usually come in charcoal or green, or if you are lucky you can find warm brown and pay more. The grey ones are about $18 at Home Depot.
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sharonkinsey2010
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:56 pm
Re: Hind leg weakness, partial paralysis
Carol,
Okay, I'm overwhelmed. An engine hoist? Let me further explain about Samson. He is not fully paralyzed. Once I get him up he can sort of negotiate on his own. Because he has little control over his right hind leg and now more and more his left - he trips himself up. He tries to bunny hop sometimes and then goes down. When outside he can usually push himself up with his front paws and then lift himself. On the inside carpet he cannot. It is almost impossible for us to recarpet everything. I am hoping some front paw boots of some sort will help. Anyone have experience with I think Tammy and (?) boots? As to the cart - I am home alone most of the week as my husband works in Houston Monday-Thursday - I live in Virginia. We live in a restored late 1800's farm house. If you saw the layout you'd understand why putting a hoist anywhere on the first floor is pretty close to impossible. Is the idea of a brace totally unworkable? I guess he'd need two. I will check out the carts you mentioned and maybe talk to the builders themselves. Any other ideas for getting Samson into one of these? Also, does a cart allow the dog to use whatever mobility in its hind legs it has? I would hate to see his muscles atrophy completely. Was thinking about setting up another appt at NC for another neuro eval but not sure its worth it. Thoughts? Samson has nerve damage plain and simple. It surely does not take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. Anyway - thanks to all for your support.
Sharon Kinsey
Follow Your Dream Farm
www.followyourdreamfarm.net
Okay, I'm overwhelmed. An engine hoist? Let me further explain about Samson. He is not fully paralyzed. Once I get him up he can sort of negotiate on his own. Because he has little control over his right hind leg and now more and more his left - he trips himself up. He tries to bunny hop sometimes and then goes down. When outside he can usually push himself up with his front paws and then lift himself. On the inside carpet he cannot. It is almost impossible for us to recarpet everything. I am hoping some front paw boots of some sort will help. Anyone have experience with I think Tammy and (?) boots? As to the cart - I am home alone most of the week as my husband works in Houston Monday-Thursday - I live in Virginia. We live in a restored late 1800's farm house. If you saw the layout you'd understand why putting a hoist anywhere on the first floor is pretty close to impossible. Is the idea of a brace totally unworkable? I guess he'd need two. I will check out the carts you mentioned and maybe talk to the builders themselves. Any other ideas for getting Samson into one of these? Also, does a cart allow the dog to use whatever mobility in its hind legs it has? I would hate to see his muscles atrophy completely. Was thinking about setting up another appt at NC for another neuro eval but not sure its worth it. Thoughts? Samson has nerve damage plain and simple. It surely does not take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. Anyway - thanks to all for your support.
Sharon Kinsey
Follow Your Dream Farm
www.followyourdreamfarm.net
Re: Hind leg weakness, partial paralysis
Yes, my big dog was like that for a long time, he needed help getting up but once he was up he could walk for a while. However when he finally lost his footing after walking a while, then he was stuck on the floor and once again unable to get up. A trick that helped me (my dog was half the size of your dog) was to help him to his feet using only my biceps 
. Imagine your log is lying in the middle of the floor, and he is wearing a rear harness you can grab. I'm right handed so I would kneel down on one knee next to him with my left knee on the ground. I would put the elbow of my right arm on my right knee (which is forming a sort of table) then grab my dog's harness and curl my arm like I am curling a weight in the gym. This way only my arm was doing the lifting and not my back. It works if your dog is able to get up with help. If he isn't trying to get to his feet, I'm not sure you could dead lift him this way. Since your dog is heavier, I don't know if you risk tearing something in your elbow this way, so be careful. Here is a picture of the kind of harness my dog wore on the rear.
https://www.handicappedpets.com/mediawiki/?title=Male_wrap_with_handles
I had another method of getting my dog to his feet without lifting. This method and the method above worked for a dog that could still walk, once up.
http://handicappedpet.net/helppets/view ... ole#p67653
I don't know what to suggest on the splints, perhaps you could call the splint companies for advice. I agree it sounds neurological, with the scissoring and bunny hopping.
The last thing I could suggest, that made it easier for my dog to get on his feet, was a raised bed. His bed was about the height of a toddler mattress, and it was firm so he did not sink in. He would lie near the front, then put his front feet down on the floor, then drag his hindquarters off and lever them up into standing position with the aid of his shoulders. If he was flat on the floor, he could not get on his feet, but if he was on his bed, the extra height it gave his hindquarters while he was sliding off of it, was enough to enable him to get on his feet. This would not work at all with the standard puffy fiberfill dog bed, it has to be firm and maybe 9 inches off the floor.
P.S. If you are in an old farmhouse, do you have rafters or strong ceiling joists? You could put a pulley on the ceiling and use that for lifting him. Someone here used a marine winch. Sandy used a pully to hold her dog up for expressing. I think you'll be really glad to have some kind of mechanical device for lifting, when the day comes that your dog is on the floor and there is nobody there to get him up but you...which is what happened to me several years ago. I knew the day was coming, but it arrived several weeks before expected. I had part of my preparations made, but not all, so I had to scramble.
. Imagine your log is lying in the middle of the floor, and he is wearing a rear harness you can grab. I'm right handed so I would kneel down on one knee next to him with my left knee on the ground. I would put the elbow of my right arm on my right knee (which is forming a sort of table) then grab my dog's harness and curl my arm like I am curling a weight in the gym. This way only my arm was doing the lifting and not my back. It works if your dog is able to get up with help. If he isn't trying to get to his feet, I'm not sure you could dead lift him this way. Since your dog is heavier, I don't know if you risk tearing something in your elbow this way, so be careful. Here is a picture of the kind of harness my dog wore on the rear.https://www.handicappedpets.com/mediawiki/?title=Male_wrap_with_handles
I had another method of getting my dog to his feet without lifting. This method and the method above worked for a dog that could still walk, once up.
http://handicappedpet.net/helppets/view ... ole#p67653
I don't know what to suggest on the splints, perhaps you could call the splint companies for advice. I agree it sounds neurological, with the scissoring and bunny hopping.
The last thing I could suggest, that made it easier for my dog to get on his feet, was a raised bed. His bed was about the height of a toddler mattress, and it was firm so he did not sink in. He would lie near the front, then put his front feet down on the floor, then drag his hindquarters off and lever them up into standing position with the aid of his shoulders. If he was flat on the floor, he could not get on his feet, but if he was on his bed, the extra height it gave his hindquarters while he was sliding off of it, was enough to enable him to get on his feet. This would not work at all with the standard puffy fiberfill dog bed, it has to be firm and maybe 9 inches off the floor.
P.S. If you are in an old farmhouse, do you have rafters or strong ceiling joists? You could put a pulley on the ceiling and use that for lifting him. Someone here used a marine winch. Sandy used a pully to hold her dog up for expressing. I think you'll be really glad to have some kind of mechanical device for lifting, when the day comes that your dog is on the floor and there is nobody there to get him up but you...which is what happened to me several years ago. I knew the day was coming, but it arrived several weeks before expected. I had part of my preparations made, but not all, so I had to scramble.
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sharonkinsey2010
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:56 pm
Re: Hind leg weakness, partial paralysis
Hello all,
This all just became a moot point for now. Rushed Samson to hospital last night after I noticed some blood in his moth as well as new skin lesion. He has been diagnosed with IMTP (Immune mediated Thrombopytocenia (sp?) - the same thing his sister died from almost 2 years ago to the day. Right now he is stable condition in ICU and they are starting the normal drug protocol to get his platelet count up - it was 20,000 last night - normal is 200,000 maybe. I knew as soon as I saw the lesion in his mouth with blood what it was. If I could find the breeder honestly I'm not sure I could remain a good Christian. Anyway - we must weather this crisis before we can think of anything else. Thanks for all your support. I am cried out.
This all just became a moot point for now. Rushed Samson to hospital last night after I noticed some blood in his moth as well as new skin lesion. He has been diagnosed with IMTP (Immune mediated Thrombopytocenia (sp?) - the same thing his sister died from almost 2 years ago to the day. Right now he is stable condition in ICU and they are starting the normal drug protocol to get his platelet count up - it was 20,000 last night - normal is 200,000 maybe. I knew as soon as I saw the lesion in his mouth with blood what it was. If I could find the breeder honestly I'm not sure I could remain a good Christian. Anyway - we must weather this crisis before we can think of anything else. Thanks for all your support. I am cried out.
Re: Hind leg weakness, partial paralysis
Sharon, we are here for you. Sending healing prayers for your boy.
Christine... and Bailey, playing at the Bridge
?/1999 - 10/25/08
Re: Hind leg weakness, partial paralysis
I hope he'll be all right. 
Re: Hind leg weakness, partial paralysis
Only Eddies Wheels still makes a solid ring cart. Theirs can be made with a removable saddle. Both K9 cart companies use a flexible ring saddle and both make removable saddles. So at least all the major companies do have a removable saddle and most are soft.
Bobbie Mayer
"Corgis on Wheels: Understanding and Caring for the Special Needs of Corgis with Degenerative Myelopathy or DIsk Disease available now!
http://www.corgiaid.org/cart/corgisonwheels
"Corgis on Wheels: Understanding and Caring for the Special Needs of Corgis with Degenerative Myelopathy or DIsk Disease available now!
http://www.corgiaid.org/cart/corgisonwheels
Re: Hind leg weakness, partial paralysis
I tried every kind of shoe and splint, including Tammy and Teddy's, with Koi, my spinal cord injured boy who was shot in the spine in LA. He developed contractures in his L foot that drove us both nuts. It was a long, hard, creative road, but he's FINALLY better. Hope Samson does OK with the new development!!!